Ahh, then I did indeed misunderstand you. My apologies. And yes, the LAV concept in general is slightly retarded. It just makes no sense from an economical perspective. And even militaries take economic factors into consideration. That said: the MiG-67 is actually more plausible than the jet-bik, evn though only by a small margin.

Your assessment about maneuverability is correct, though. The MiG-67 would still have a piss poor maneuverability, as any LAV would (and does in SR). They are not meant for tight city streets, but for open landscape, where they can move without having to worry about obstacles. Their speed is their biggest advantage, not their maneuverability.

Just have a look at the different difficulty modifiers in the same scenario:

Semi-crowded city streets (e.g. main street), avoiding a pedestrian that decided that red lights are for sissies
-Regular Bike: Threshold 3
-Jet-Bike/MiG-67: Threshold 6

I don't think I need to tell you how vastly different the diffculties of those two tests are.



JetCat P-200: ~2.4 kg
D-30KU-157: ~ 2.3 tons

Vectored thrust is (broadly) defined as any propulsion system that has the ability to redirect the thrust it generates.

I'm picturing the bike doing a 180 as it comes to a stop - that would be one way to deal with the problem of fixed direction thrusters. Also, it would look great.

But anyway, I'm late to this thread but I don't see a major problem with the flying bike. I'm defining problem as inconsistent with the setting or flavour. Looking at the picture of the sparrow, I don't see why you couldn't have the pilot sitting above and between the fans instead of standing sort of in front and down between them with a modicum of redesign. As to fuel, energy and weight, the Shadowrun setting is one that has fusion power for energy availability, cyberlimbs to illustrate energy storage (so it doesn't need to be sloshing fuel around, it can use whatever energy storage technology a cyberllimb uses which necessarily can't be that heavy) and as to the weight of the vehicle, we are today on the cusp of a revolution in light and strong materials. Something in 2070 could be shockingly light yet still strong enough for this design. As to the dangerousness of the thing, SR2070 technology not only has computer systems that can pilot a car or an aeroplane, but can do so better than a typical person trained in the task.

Now as to how often you'd see such things, that would be a different matter. As others have pointed out, it doesn't make a great deal of sense for most purposes. Other modes of transport will be cheaper, more reliable, longer-lasting, less dangerous, cheaper, less absurdly conspicuous, have less legal issues to licence, be cheaper, not subject to air traffic control restrictions, not be impossible to insure, be cheaper, have places you can park without violating all sorts of regulations, wont deafen you or the people below you with the roar of its fans. Also, other vehicles would be a little-wittle bit cheaper.

But possible, yes - I think this is possible in Shadowrun. Personally, I'd use the Sparrow as the base and then tack on some Passenger Protection and probably Engine Customisation (Speed). I think you can get both of those in as vehicle mods before you have to hit the overmodding rules. However, I'd use this as the baseline and probably come up with some stats and costs of my own to suit the idea and the setting better.

I'd also disagree with this being laughed out of town by any go-gangers. If you're asking who would want to ride this, I personally would love to. And if I as a respectable adult management type would, you can bet your bottom nuyen that you'll find go-gangers that would love it. "Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads."

K.

Edit: Great drawing, btw.

I think as a general rule its a good idea to completely disregard the artwork when conceptualizing SR weapons, gear and vehicles.

In regards to the OP's original picture...

As a flying vehicle I see no problems w/ it. Just base it off the sparrow and go from there. I'd probably remove the VTOL2 and make it VTOL1 as I see no good way for it to vertically lift itself. But give it some speed to compensate. Might also actually give it sheels like a motorcycle and give it some of the penalties of having 2 sidecars. (IE: drives like a slow bike on the roads... but give it a short straightaway and it's airborne). Hell give it the rocket boosters for jump and it might not even need that for limited use.

Expecting ANY kind of maneuverability like a wheeled bike.. no. From the conceptualization it's a straight line speed machine w/ no cornering ability. (even worse w/o the ground friction provided by wheels to convert their forward velocity into turning energy). Sorry thrust vectoring won't get you that much. Just turning the nose is not enough to turn... think of a hovercraft... okay you turned 90degrees... you've still got a large forward velocity vector which needs decelerated, you slam into the wall sideways. Vectored thrust only gets you so much (again, hovercraft are prime examples of a vectored thrust vehicle, minus the Z-axis).


As far as LAV's go... the russians actually did build one. And they do make sense for certain environments. For those who don't understand physics of this. Lift == drag... in order to minimize drag you need minimum lift. LAV's are built in such a way that they never leave a very high lift zone called ground effect, where the air literally compresses between the aircraft and the ground producing more lift close to the ground than it would if you went up a few hundred feet. So by restricting the transports wings to only have enough lift to operate in ground effect they minimized their size and drag. Problems which came is since their lift is primarily based on the ground effect cushion below them... they don't turn by banking well (which is how a normal plane/fighter gets most of it's turning agility).

Overall they're not very practical, because flying something like it over the great plains... you run into problems w/ power lines and similar vertical obstructions which you won't see until it's too late to react. However, for flying over the ocean or say siberia... they have some use. Also the air is denser near the ground so it takes more energy to push through it at a given speed, so w/o a stealth requirement most aircraft just fly higher, not try and stay within ground cover.

In the russian example, IIRC, the idea was for a troop transport w/ a very high lift capability able to fly in the wave clutter close to the sea surface for amphibious assults. You can quickly see why these things are primarily military/smugglers toys based on that description.

I'd add Ducted Fan to the list. Is that even in the SR4 rules? It's what the forward lifting jets of the Harrier are. Essentially fan-driven air forced through ducts to increase pressure. The exhaust should have no appreciable heat increase.


-karma

See the Dragonfly and Emblem.

Okay here is what I am going with... All engines on the vehicle are ducted fan engines with two fans along the bottom to provide lift. The stats will be the same as the sparrow except an increase of speed to 120 (to account for the ducted fan engines along the rear). The forward mounted fans can pivot down to increase stability in lift during take off and landing giving it the VTOL qualities. Also the engines can be reversed to account for slowing and stopping the vehicle. The fins along the back are used to help with maneuvering and slowing the vehicle as well. This is the best I can come up with to satisfy a realistic element and still have something fun and unique for the character. The vehicle will be hybrid powered (electric and combustion) by using electric building turbines in the fans to increase electrical output. This should satisfy the power consumption problem by explaining for technology increases by 2070.

Keep in mind that it counts as an aircraft, now, for all handling test purposes. Also, I would go with full electric engine in your latest proposal. Hybrid engines are abysmal from an economic perspective. That's just something rather minor, so don't consider this critique but rather a personal preference.

Yeah I was assuming as much from the beginning. I was considering changing it to total electric anyway once I got to thinking about it. The only reason I went with that is because of the write up in arsenal about propulsion systems.

Make it a hydroelectric fuel cell and you're gold (or green for that matter)

As a matter of fact, personal flying vehicles, be they one-man frame copters, copter or jet backpacks and so on have existed for a long time now. Saying they can't physically exist is arguing with Lockheed-Martin and MiG engineers, and I wouldn't do that.

No reason for them not to become usable in 60 years, minding the common obsession with flying cars and bikes.

No one here argued that they couldn't physically exist.

Not as hard as you'd think, just treat it like a helicopter. If you have the full vtol capability. And it ends up being little different from any other similar flying drone w/ all their same foibles and strengths.

And remember that pilot aircraft is a trained only skill.

Yep its for my Techno and he has Pilot Aircraft (vectored thrust) 2(4)

Oh right, it's not like someone wrote a good page of text on why you'd suffocate when engines are working and such. Silly me.