My players in an upcoming campaign are all Awakened, and all but one are likely going to initiate ASAP. They have a group lifestyle above a sex club where they all work in various capacities (matrix & physical security for the hacker/rigger, astral security & illusions for the mage, bouncing for the troll adept, and sexual services for the courtesan face). I'm thinking of creating a magical group based in the club, based in a common belief in sexual and social freedom and the power which can be garnered from sex (esp. if there's a lodge in the basement ^_^). How would you suggest I implement sex magic in my game? I'm interested in both applications of existing rules and suggestions for new ones. I'd be extra happy if a dev chimed in (I'm looking at you, AH!).

I dunno if there's really much to say. The magic rules are already an abstract used to cover all manner of rituals, so I'd say most of the heavy lifting would be in regards to any oaths, strictures, geas or mentor/free spirits you guys choose to associate with. A variation of the Horned Man hits me as immediately appropriate.

Yes, I'll definitely be using the Horned Man as a patron.

Run by the freespirits Larry Flynt and Hugh Hefner?

Sounds like you just add sex into all the little details of their 'traditions.' Have to have sex once every 24 hours as a geas, orgies as ritual casting, etc. I think there's some interesting depth to be had from roleplaying out your character's personal beliefs regarding bodily energy and magic.

Whipstich covered it decently. One other possibility I could see is that an Orgy probably creates a background count, even without magic. Sex magic could make use of that as an aspected BG count.

I just want to know where this club is located... I want to join!

I just want to know where this club is located... I want to join!

Geas for metamagic. Use a ritual geas: "Had sex in the last 24 hours."

I did it for my 800 BP drake, though I did go a little farther for giggles: "Had sex, in dracoform, with a willing partner."

That's a good point - I think I'll give the place a R2 background count aspected for people who practice sex magic.


I based it largely off of Seattle's Center for Sex-Positive Culture, commonly known as the Wet Spot . I used to be volunteer laundry crew there, and I'm about to start running a perverse and pervertible games party with my fiance and secndary ^_^

Part of me is a little annoyed at the almost pejorative name for a "sex-positive culture center," but mostly I think that's just hilarious.

I'm a monogamist in the end though, so I'm boring. Not all of us can shake completely free of cultural norms.

You could also have oaths/strictures about things like abusing the trust of sexual partners (things like ignoring when your partner used a safe word etc). After all, such a magical bond would be one of the few ways of having a relatively impartial jury in such matters.

Should write a novel, like Melissa Febos did about her four years as a professional dominatrix while she attended college.

Also, party games are easily turned naughty. Seriously, even monopoly. Just swap out the currency for items of clothing.

(Minor edit: another thread that on any other forum would have been locked by now)

Frag that.

We're discussing it in a mature way with the actual intent of using it in a game. Freedom of speech. What do you think we are, Christians?

Two words: Tantric Tradition

Seriously, do a bit of reading on tantra and base a tradition around that. There's a lot more to it than just sex and it converts to a magic tradition well. IN fact, it already did. For those who used to play the old Mage: The Ascension game, look at the Cult of Ecstasy (the real one, not the image of drug addled sex fiends most people think they were).

Good call. I think I'll base the club rules off of RACK (risk-aware consentual kink) rather than SSC (safe, sane, and consentual), though - the Heal spell makes normally risky play much less dangerous in the long run.

Here's the group so far:

Patron = Horned One (Bacchus/Cerunos/Dionysus/etc.)
Strictures:
Attendance (Weekly orgies - must attend at least 1/month)
Belief (Sexual freedom, respect for sexual partners)
Exclusive membership
Fraternity
Geas (Must have sexual intercourse at least once a week)
Geas (Must have 2 or more sexual partners per month)
Service (Must work at the club; paid in room and board)
Limited membership (Club staff)

I'm still looking for a name.

Why is monogamy not allowed? Just a question.

Which is why I didn't suggest it before. Going that route typically requires dumbing down the practices enough that you needn't have bothered with much beyond the bare details, particularly since the rituals are rarely something a westerner likely has much familiarity with, magical practictioner or not. A diverse and largely secular group with common goals just ends up being a lot more inclusive, particularly in a situation like this one in which it sounds like the PCs have already been sheeted up.

Some of us are...

Were just adults and not children and can therefore discuss things without resorting to childish acts

I would like to point out that the very first thing god said to adam and eve was go forth and multiply leads me to believe he wanted us to have sex...

And some of us are still bitter ultra-liberal college students pretending to be adults.

Sorry if that came off as an insult. I mean that organized religion is inevitably the opposite of "sex-positive" culture. I guess I worded it as a personal statement and I shouldn't have.

And a perfectly valid one. I set it up that way because the group is based around breaking down sexual barriers and raising sexual energy for magical purposes. While monogamy is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice, it doesn't work so well when you want to do a group sex ritual ^_^

Oh, just an obscure reference. Most forums go "AHHH! SEX TOPIC! BEYOND PG-13 D: *LOCKLOCKLOCK*"

Except, apparently, all of the forums I visit...one of which had* an active "sex rp" board.

*Probably still has. I got into a bit of a tussle with some dickwad on crack^ and realized that, no, I don't really need to be coming here. I may have been in the right, but this isn't a place I actually care about.

^"I saw a dragon in the Iraq desert! It wanted me to write its memoirs! Its an agent of the Christian God and eats sinners!" No, I'm not kidding.

I took out the "at least 2 sexual partners per month" geas as unnecessary. The group has a buttload of strictures as it is.

Any ideas for a name?

[Edit:] What do you think of a "stacked" lodge? Instead of having multiple lodges and dealing with how they relate, I'd rather just have a single, more expensive lodge which can be used by multiple magical traditions (since the group includes members who walk many different paths). For example, the primary physical focus could be the main orgy space in the basement; there could be a hermetic library with both physical books & virtual access through terminals; meditation rooms could include paraphinalia for many different traditions. Thoughts?

Scarlet Woman - Not For Kids!

AH is here! We're saved!

Awesome!

Damn. That's... mildly disturbing.

Sex magick is a weird one for occult practices. It is demonstrable that sex and magic have had connections from a very early period (if you ever browse through the Greek Magical Papyri you'll see what I mean), but the modern practice of "sex magick" is more drawn from the ceremonial magic of the turn of the century - Aliester Crowley and the Ordo Temple Orientialis - rather than the old gnostic practices or the more practical spells and charms of antiquity. Basically, once we got really good birth control, female conception, and male virility methods a lot of the practical spells went out the window, which is why modern magical traditions (like Wicca) deal more with sexual symbols and an understanding of sexuality than the ceremonial sex rituals of the Crowley-ites.

But hey, let's focus on some fun stuff that you can do. Geasa are discussed above, and perfectly fine - many magicians had strange sexual norms and mores, and if you want to be more Rasputin than celibant, that's your deal. On a more practical side, the ceremonial sex rituals provide a good justification for enhanced ritual magic - perhaps a way to have more participants without having anyone know the Great Ritual metamagic.

Incubi and succubi are favored tropes, essentially the summoning of spirits for sexual services (or for possession traditions, to possess a target for sexual purposes). Considering the appearance of most spirits however, sexual relations just aren't practical, and such sex-spirits should probably be of "fair and seemly form" (that won't cause too much damage to the genital region, and probably have the Desire Reflection power). Rather than have discrete traditions, I'd probably make these a variety of wild or free spirits, summoned using their spirit formula or using the Calling/Bargaining rules from Running Wild. Even celibates might summon a spirit of lust to test themselves against temptation, while more practical free spirits of lust might use their Wealth powers to create aphrodisiacs (the herbal equivalent of eX or something like that).

Practical sex magic would probably include contraception, fertility, and abortion spells, which I think we could safely file under the "Health" category without upsetting too many people (hell, we already have an Orgasm/Orgy spell). Of more immediate interest would be a "stimulation/arousal" spell (which handles physical anticipation, preparation, and erection - despite difficulties), or perhaps a specific version of Control Emotion that promotes the emotion of love or lust...I hate to add to Manipulation bloat, but it's already there basically.

(Wow, speaking of bad ideas: personal anti-sperm barrier - intangible magical force field around your body that actively attacks sperm that contacts it. I'd hate to see the smoke rise for the poor mystic adept doing the bukkake scene.)

Adepts in particular have strong potential for use and abuse. There might be a Tantric Sex adept power (or more obliquely "Ritualist") that allows them to add their Magic to ritual sorcery, and you can pretty well damn bet that there's a porn-star adept who has mastered sufficient somatic control to maintain states of arousal for extended periods (without artificial aid), or possibly to ejaculate on command. I don't want to get too far into the fetish of accommodating large objects or members, but an "O-ring orifice" power would be hysterical - or for those women that are interested, the ability to choose when they get pregnant (induce their own ovulation), to "store" sperm for later use (I think some rabbits can do that - and it has certain other uses too), or even the ability to spontaneously conceive (delivering their own clone-daughter, like certain lizards). Those last couple are a bit weird.

You learn something every day.

I'm thinking of making the proprietor of the club the group is based out of a free spirit of force 7 or so. What optional powers should he have? Definitely Realistic Form, and possibly Desire Reflection. I don't think I'll give him Wealth; it doesn't match the concept in my head. Thoughts?

Energy Drain (Karma)*

*Subject must climax during sex

A free mantis spirit?

That's a bit dark; I want him to be a nice guy for the most part. He acts as fixer and mentor to the (all-volunteer) staff, some of whom live in apartments above the club. I'm thinking of giving him Influence, a variant of Mob Mood with an effect similar to the drug eX, Magic Fingers, Orgasm, Orgy, Levitation, Sterilize (for after-party cleanup), Healthy Glow (to make his entertainers that much more enticing), Fashion (ditto), and Trid Entertainment.

I tend to think of him as a suave Spanish gentleman. Slicked-back black hair, a pointed moustache, tanned skin... he'd wear silk button-down shirts buttoned halfway up (to show off his chest hair) and leather pants. Most of the time he tends bar and dispenses drugs, subtly influencing the scene with illusions and sustained levitation of key objects. Unlike most free spirits, he doesn't crave more power than he has already - he's happy with the life he has. Consequently, he doesn't seek out Karma, instead happily living off of the background count of his club and helping "his" initiatory group to learn, grow, and prosper.

[Edit:] I need names for the spirit and the club. The spirit would be the patron of a magical group comprised of some (most?) of the members of the volunteer staff, including my PC's.

I might create a unique Group Pact (Digital Grimoire 14) for said group; any ideas?

Well, that doesn't necessarily rule out that he can Drain Karma. It really just says that he isn't predatory (anymore?). Spirits are a strange lot and one that so closely fraternizes with humanity is bound to have a past. I rather doubt that even a Mimic type Spirit springs forth into world fully embodying a specific ideal. It'd be quite likely that such a Spirit would simply indulge in the full variety of a particular class of vices and then perhaps overtime would grow into a role or otherwise work out a setup that feeds its proclivities without having to do anything untoward, perhaps even developing or adopting a certain ethos as he homes in on what sort of background count and energy he likes to have around him. Further, it'd enable him to trade Karma for extreme favors without necessarily having to enter a Pact or reveal his formula. After all, while it may seem a bit dark, one must remember that this is Shadowrun. You may sometimes get something for nothing but real power comes with strings attached. Even a benevolent spirit may have to charge for his services just to maintain his power from time to time.

add Blood Sugar

I literally read this as Mono "Game"ist, I'm such a nerd hahaha

1) THere is no such thing as free speech, especially on the internet, especially on a privately owned message board. Never, ever delude yourself into thinking otherwise.

2) This thread is really toeing the line. Read the Terms of Service again. keep it in game, and keep it non-graphic, or I shut it down.

Bull

Understood.

I would question what about this thread toes what line.

Western cultural mores are pretty standard these days and a bit conservative, so I'd say it probably toes the line just by existing, really, which is rather a problem when you consider that the forum's intended to be accessible to the general public. Besides, we're not privy to Bull's inbox, so for all we know this is causing him more headaches than we know of even if he wouldn't personally mind (Not that I would presume to know whether he minds or not, just sayin').

To build of what AH put down- mods please note I'm trying to help, not be salacious, if I trip over the line please note I'm trying to educate-

The idea of sex magic is building power and emotion. Most magical rituals have a strong element of building power, focusinbg it and then releasing it on the target. This build in modern pagan terms can be chanting, dancing, rythmic clapping etc. With that in mind sex has been noted to have a really big build to a release, the orgasm.

An incubus or succubus drains power from the victim who is unaware of what is being done, except they're having a good time. Real sex magic includes both partners being aware of what they are doing, magic wise, and usually one directing the spell and the other accepting the other's leadership role.

The trick, no pun intended, if you are one of the participants, is to keep you thoughts focused on that spell goal while taking part in something inherantly capable of blowing away all of your cognitave thoughts, if done right.

Group action, meaning more than two, is NOT an orgy. The idea is that the two lead members do take part in the act while other members surround them and raise power in the more conventional way and channel it towards the two in the center of the spell. (Please note I have NOT personally taken part in this sort of group activity in any form I'm just working on theory and what I've heard).

You have a point there. I reviewed the ToS; here's the pertinant section:


Sex has not been discussed out of an in-game context directly relating to a campaign I'm about to start running, and I haven't posted anything I would label as "sexually explicit". The only part of the ToS which this thread might have violated, as far as I can see, is the "offensive material" bit. Frankly, I don't think the thread has crossed that line - this is an unusually mature forum, and the thread has stayed respectful - but I freely admit that it would be well within a moderator's rights to close the thread due to violation of that point.

Bull - Did I get it about right? What should we do/not do to keep the thread from crossing that line?

An orgy COULD be used ritually, though - you set up the focus for the power (the spell's framework, unpowered), then raise a whole bunch of power and channel it into that framework. I should think that with adequate preparation, the sexual energy could be so channelled without any additional effort from the participants.

Sorry for the double post, but I felt it important that this post be separate from my response to Bull's moderator post.

I couldn't resist a red hot chili peppers joke

Perhaps your free spirit should have a friendship pact with the group?

Friendship pact?

The problem is that the more people in the act, the harder it becomes to keep everyone's thought's focused and just one person who loses focus and just starts enjoying the ride acts as a drain, pulling off not only the power they might have raised but other people's too. Just the risk of that distraction and someone else ruining the work, cause of course you'd never lose focus, disuades people from taking part in multiple couplings, what if someone screws up, no pun intended, my work?

That's why group sex rituals ,the so called Great Rite, involves only one couple actually engaged in the act.

As a group act maybe if you have a temptress or succubi who could take advantage of a group corruption who don't realize they're being used.

For game terms I'd say add an extra dice for each participant in the ritual-the circle around the couple- with the people in the act also adding a dice and subtraction 1 from the target IF they can stay focused, your call on how to judge that.

Pretty much.

Basically, it comes down to several points.

1) This forum does not exist to discuss anyones sexual kinks, preferences, or prejudices. It's to discuss the game of Shadowrun.

2) Everyone has different points at which they find something offensive. Just because you're not offended, that doesn't mean someone else isn't.

3) As we've experienced here, and seen on other message boards, certain topics are just volatile by nature, because everyone has such wildly different opinions about the subject, and those opinions tend to be very deep rooted. These subjects often lead quickly to arguments, flamewars, and other ugliness. Sex is one of those subjects.

What it boils down to is that we'd rather avoid the headaches altogether. Right now, I'm fine leaving things up. I just wanted to remind everyone that this is not a "free for all" board, espeically with the comments about "Freedom of Speech" early on. I've almost never seen that phrase used in an internet discussion other than as a defense for when someone is about to break the Terms of Service.

Like I said, don't get explicit. Don't link to pornographic material. If you're not sure whether or not something is explicit or pornographic, well, err on the side of caution.

Bull

In my defense, this IS a game with penile implants, breast implants, and the Orgasm/Orgy spells in official sourcebooks ^_^

First, Snow_Fox..I love seeing someone who does their homework on the theory.
I like to incorporate RL practices into my games as well, partly for the believability
(When you have someone do a spell where the practices, if not the actual details,
are drawn from actual workings, it makes it more believable, and makes it easier
to answer player questions), and partly because it is what I know, and so what,
when I am trying to think of something, where my first thoughts go(I GM on the fly).

That said, Tyro, I see some potential issues over all with the idea in practice. First,
I would have to ask are they all the same(or similar traditions)? If not(or even if so),
what Tradition are they? A Wiccan would have a different approach then one following
a more Egyptian tradition and both would be different from someone following
Christian Theurgy or Chaos Magic. From there, I wonder other details, like how open minded
are your players? Do they know this is what you are planning? I ask because this is the sort
of thing that can make a player potentially uncomfortable. Also, where do you play? If you
play at home, that makes things different then if you play out in public. And how graphic do
you expect to get in game? I know that, given where I play(at my FLGS), I could never run
a game like this.(That and even if I could, I would have one player who would likely have his
head explode..poor guy leads a really sheltered life...did not even know what the Blue Oyster bar
was!)