Oh well, I missed a point: Witchcraft. Congratulations, you just got yourself task spirits. These guys can take a lot of the car theft out of your hands.
Wicker Men (see "Street Magic") make great mechanics. Cheap, somewhat matching the tradition... not so very combat effective, though.
You could as well use leather whips and chains as weapons, also allowing spirits to possess them and go all snakey on your enemys, just desperately thinking of more uses for "Analyze Device"...
I still think that a gimped up rigger and his electronically piloted car can take on a spirit possessing a vehicle. Cars are damn big targets and lack a lot of choices in places they can go to. Heck, even a ward across a street can throw that spirit out of his wheels.
Movement is great on characters and drones, maybe even motorcycles, but you'll need high force spirits to make even half the effect on a car.
Full Version: The Awakened Wheelman
QUOTE (PresentPresence @ Oct 25 2011, 09:21 PM) 
Hey, I have an idea! Why don't I just play a pornomancer! Oh wait, that's totally not what I wanted to do. What I'm looking for is optimizations without compromising the core character concept. Mind Over Matter is the name of the game, compadre, and I'm just trying to figure out how to work with it.
I took your goal to be "Awakened Wheelman" with possession and spellcasting ability. If Mind over Matter is central to you, by all means do that. One really does not have to take maximum use out of Possession. I would still suggest to simply softcap Intuition at 5, as actual Reaction can be boosted beyond 7 easily. A Trauma Dampener instead of Optimised Intuition should allow you to risk over-summoning.
QUOTE (PresentPresence @ Oct 25 2011, 02:21 PM)
Hey, I have an idea! Why don't I just play a pornomancer! Oh wait, that's totally not what I wanted to do. What I'm looking for is optimizations without compromising the core character concept. Mind Over Matter is the name of the game, compadre, and I'm just trying to figure out how to work with it.
I think part of the problem is that you've changed the goalposts, here in this very thread. As it stands right now, your character concept is 1) drive better than everyone else, 2) hack well enough to casually steal cars, 3) summon stuff, and 4) reliably sling 15+ spellcasting dice (in order to beat the OR you'll be facing), all while 5) investing in Mind Over Matter.
Your character concept, in other words, is like three other character concepts smushed together. So, yeah. Sometimes someone's gonna think outside the box a little bit while trying to help you out. You're requiring as handful of very high attributes, high Magic, some of that high Magic dedicated to Adept powers (instead of the summoning and spellcasting you state as requirements), skills spread out all over the place (from Pilot Ground Vehicle to Electronics to Summoning to Spellcasting, in addition to the standard Shadowrunner staples so that you're not totally worthless outside of a car, I'd assume), and a not-unreasonable amount of Resources (because you want a little bit of chrome, you want reasonable electronics, etc)...
Your concept is scattered all over the place. Standard answers might not exactly cut it.
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Oct 25 2011, 08:27 PM)
Car-possessing is less good than you think. It loses a pass compared to the pilot, and still needs to burn one to control itself, because its a vehicle.
I'm not so sure about that. They are the vehicle, they are not driving it. Do Jarheads have to spend a complex action driving themselves?QUOTE (PresentPresence @ Oct 25 2011, 08:42 PM)
As for car-possession, I would love to purchase a car and have an Ally Spirit to inhabit it, but regular spirits can't do it so well. For starters, none of them have access to Vehicle skills, so they wouldn't be able to handle a crash test very well.
Why not give your spirit an alternate realistic form? Then you can have your favorite vehicle anywhere you want it.
Jarheads should be more or less identical to Jump-In riggers, so maybe not the best comparison.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 25 2011, 01:55 PM)
Jarheads should be more or less identical to Jump-In riggers, so maybe not the best comparison.
As a Marine, I resent that...
I spent some time trying to figure out the best use for possession spirits with drones/vehicles, and my conclusion is that since they can't get Gunnery, the idea should be to use the vehicle to complement the spirit rather than vice versa. Specifically, with Vehicle Armor. It's easy to get a vehicle with Armor 20. Then you possess it, and it gets bonus armor and ITNW, and then instead of trying to use built-in weapons or anything, the spirit just uses its powers to fight or do stuff and benefits from being nearly invulnerable while in the armored bus or whatever.
There's also hilarious shenanigans to be had with Invoking a Great Form Plant Spirit, then having it possess something like a armor-modified Conestoga Vista. It winds up being able to regenerate ridiculously fast, like 12 damage/turn.
There's also hilarious shenanigans to be had with Invoking a Great Form Plant Spirit, then having it possess something like a armor-modified Conestoga Vista. It winds up being able to regenerate ridiculously fast, like 12 damage/turn.
QUOTE (PresentPresence @ Oct 25 2011, 01:13 PM)
Here's what I've got so far:
And I haven't even raised my phsyical attributes, bought contacts, or purchased a good commlink yet! Here's my new list of priorities:
Thoughts? Suggestions? QQ?
[ Spoiler ]
Total: 421 BPAnd I haven't even raised my phsyical attributes, bought contacts, or purchased a good commlink yet! Here's my new list of priorities:
- Drive better than my team.
- Steal cars nonchalantly.
- Summon possession spirits for shenanigans.
- Reliably casts spells that can defeat OR 5.
Thoughts? Suggestions? QQ?
I think you basically need to just start hacking off the least point-efficient stuff. That means:
Be an ork, rather than a dwarf. That last point of willpower is not worth it, and you need the point savings so bad it hurts. I'm assuming you don't want really low strength/body (like 2/2 or 3/1) here, otherwise be a human.
Cybereyes are expensive and not actually much better than goggles/contacts. Wear it instead of implanting it, save money and essence.
Dareadrenaline, while neat, is a marginal thing and you can get it later. Ditto Reflex Recorder.
Get PuSHeD and cyberhand+neocortical+nanohive. This gives you a large, cheap bonus to logic-linked skills, of which you have a whole bunch that you're burning points on.
Ditch Gunnery. Lower Arcana, Automotive Mechanic, Hardware, and maybe Hacking to 1; they'll be better than they currently are because of PuSheD + Neocortical.
Lose the specializations, buy them with karma.
QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Oct 26 2011, 12:51 PM)
There's also hilarious shenanigans to be had with Invoking a Great Form Plant Spirit, then having it possess something like a armor-modified Conestoga Vista. It winds up being able to regenerate ridiculously fast, like 12 damage/turn.
Argh. Fantastic, I like it, but it will likely make any GM cry. For further hilarity, don't just use a battle-ready bus - use a mech (see elswhere on this forum...). Hey, if I get to get my hands on a Great Form Plant Spirit, I will probably do that.
I'm not really getting what you propose for vehicle possession and gunnery, though. Are you saying that the gun port should shoot on its own (which may be impossible) or to leave the Gunnery-linked Weapons out altogether?
QUOTE (Modular Man @ Oct 27 2011, 02:10 PM)
I'm not really getting what you propose for vehicle possession and gunnery, though. Are you saying that the gun port should shoot on its own (which may be impossible) or to leave the Gunnery-linked Weapons out altogether?
Umaro's suggest is basically use the vehicle as a buff for the spirit due to vehicles having high body and armor. Pretty much the spirit just uses whatever power it has for attacks.
QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ Oct 27 2011, 06:17 PM)
Umaro's suggest is basically use the vehicle as a buff for the spirit due to vehicles having high body and armor. Pretty much the spirit just uses whatever power it has for attacks.
Exactly, confuse the hell out of your opponents, if visible. Ram them with the bus and once in contact use Engulf. For added hurt the rigger might even be able to use the vehicle's built in weapons. Otherwise just shoot from gun ports..o0(my mohawk must be pretty pink right now.)
I am suddenly envisioning the bus coming apart like the Transformers from the movies, a mass of vehicle parts engulfing the target.
-k
-k
Wait, what? How can you engulf while possessing a bus? Sigh.
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 27 2011, 06:23 PM)
I am suddenly envisioning the bus coming apart like the Transformers from the movies, a mass of vehicle parts engulfing the target
don't say it! http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=35326
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 27 2011, 06:30 PM)
Wait, what? How can you engulf while possessing a bus? Sigh.
because melee range is not a requirement for engulf. Plant engulf can be tendrillars and rootings appear from underneath the target.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 27 2011, 06:30 PM)
Wait, what? How can you engulf while possessing a bus? Sigh.
I don't know. Are there rules for Powers not working with possessing spirits? Engulf requires Touch. This can be achieved by ramming.
More moronic RAW, and surprise, it's Possession at fault. Engulfing is a spirit surrounding something.
Engulfing is a spirit surrounding something.
I just watched Transformers a while ago... when I read that post about Great Form Spirits possessing vehicles, I went to check if Plant Spirits get Elemental Attack just so it could flip cars around with a Blast Attack just like that helicopter dude. 
Engulf doesn't necessarily require the critter's body to engulf the target, its surroundings (related to the spirit's element) might do as well.
Engulf doesn't necessarily require the critter's body to engulf the target, its surroundings (related to the spirit's element) might do as well.
Lame. Time for another house rule. If it was an 'external' engulf, then it should be LOS, possibly LOS(A).
If it was an 'external' engulf, then it should be LOS, possibly LOS(A).
There's no might about it. It's exactly what the power does.
Engulf, SR4A, p. 294: "The Engulf power gives a critter the ability to draw victims into itself or the terrain it controls, thus smothering the victim."
Engulf, SR4A, p. 294: "The Engulf power gives a critter the ability to draw victims into itself or the terrain it controls, thus smothering the victim."
You mean like Great Form plant spirits get?
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