So I'm getting back into Shadowrun after a pretty good Hiatus. I had most of the 1st edition stuff, the 2nd edition stuff but only really got the base book for 3rd. I was playing White wolf, Palladium and Star wars for the past few years.

Was in the store and saw Shadowrun 4th anniversary edition and picked it up. It really reminded me why I love the game. The art was excellent, the fluff great, the lay out spectacular. Really a high high quality item.

So.. I got 'hooked.'

I have SR4Anniversary edition.
I also have picked up

Runner Havens
and
Runner's Companion


I'm not exactly rich, and there's 12 other books already published.
Wife has given me resource allocation to purchase 2 more books for Easter.

You guys seem pretty knowledgeable about them so I thought I'd ask you.

What are your faves, what has the most USE for the price, and which two I should pick up next. and 'why'?

Hmmm 2 books?

I personally would be looking at two of four, probably going with the first two.

Arsenal - Armor/Weapons/Gear/Vehicles/Additional combat rules
Augmentation - Cyber/Biowares. Gene/Nanotech
Street Magic - All things magic
Unwired - All things matrix

The first two are more likely to be used by any character, where the last two are much more focused to certain types of characters

I'd go Street Magic & Augmentation simply because those two cater to the widest audience and also the most common character types.

Yes I know Hackers are useful but honestly, they just don't have that *WOW* factor that an augmented Sammie or a well-skilled Mage has. Not to mention that Unwired doesn't help the Matrix rules nearly as much as Augmentation or Street Magic help their respective areas.

Yeah right now I've sorta boiled it down to 4

Arsenal
Augmentation

Feral Cities
Running wild

I like the gear books. They look 'useful' for people. But I loved the old "Paranormal Animals Of North America" (( and Europe)) like cake and the concept of Feral Cities interests me. Thing is there's no game store here for me to flip though any of them and.... well some books look great on the cover but once you get inside they're not.

So I'm wary.

Arsenal is a must have for any group, the gear inside is usable by anyone and the environmental rules let you expand beyond the biosphere of the inner city.

Do you need hardcopy? The PDF's are much more economical. Could probably pick up four books.

I don't "Need" Hardcopy. In fact I have an Ipad showing up on Monday (( No Frakin' Saturday delivery here)) And plan to load all my 600 RPG pdfs up on it. The Ipad itself is why I'm getting "Allowed" money from the wife instead of just buying things. Turns out Ipads aren't cheep. Who knew.

I just 'like' hardcopy. I've got about $12K in hardcopy RPGs. I collect as well as play.

Prefer hardcopy myself, but after purchasing the entire rifts line over the years plus SR 2 and 3, the cost savings of PDFs for SR4 became something of a requirement. I'm hoping the nook we're getting this summer will work as a decent enough substitute.

Go Ipad man. Not as dedicated or narrow as the Nook.

I'll tell ya all on Monday if the PDFs work right. I have SR4A on PDF too

To be honest, I haven't really been disappointed so far with Shadowrun. Granted, I do factor in the increased cost of the books, but the overall quality (especially with SR4A) has been worth it. AND, this is a point with me, that any mistakes, misprints, eroors, ect. are quickly gone over and corrected with an Errata.

No system is perfect, despite what anyone says. If it succeeds to entertain, then it has accomplished what it was meant to do. If not, then the buyer has the choice to move on to something else. I myself rarely buy reprints or 'updated' books because I have done so before and discovered that I payed at least 1.5 times as much for a book I already had, with the same info that was in a previous edition. And trying to sell said prior edition to make room in the series is, at best, problematic.

Like Pepsi Jedi said, I don't "need" hadcopy. But I'm old-fashioned that way. I like the heft & feel of a bound book in my hands, the scent of a freshly opened tome, the soft 'crackle' of the spine when the tome is first opened.

I love the tech books, mostly because I've always beenfascinated by up & coming tech, even when I was little (I clearly remember watching the long night my father had to work, at Grumman, helping to get the Lunar Excursion Module ready, and also watching the moon landing on TV--when it first happened). But I also love the SR Magick books, becauseof the seed of realism that it has (Mages cast a spell, they take Drain! Magic always has a price!).

Until Shadowrun stops being entertaining to me, I'll keep reading.

As far as rule books are concerned, Arsenal undoubtedtly gives you the most for your money - not just guns but also vehicles, electronics, drugs, briefcase rockets...

OK, so just one more book to choose...
- Augmentation provides a huge load of cyber and bio, certainly useful for everybody except awakened and emerged characters
- Feral Cities is nice if you plan to do runs off the beaten track, or want background info for those places
- Running Wild...well, I love the book but when you have to be picky, do you really need 893745 critter stats? Of course if you want to play an infected or non-human character (since you already have RC), it becomes a must-have.

Does Running Wild have any of the shadow talk about the critters and what not like the old Paranormal guides did?

I'm pretty sold on Arsenal now...so I just gotta pick the 'other' one.

You mentioned looking for shadowtalk regarding creatures like the old Paranorm Critters books. If that's what you're looking for, I'd recommend going with Augmentation and Arsenal. There's bits and pieces of shadowtalk all throughout the book. If you're looking for one page per critter, with shadowtalk for that critter? Well, then Running Wild can wait. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed both Feral Cities and Running Wild. But for immediate usefulness now, I'd recommend the top two.

Seems to be the prevailing thought. Arsenal, then Augmentation.

Hurm. are Feral Cities or Running Wild effected by that 'No sell right now" Thing? I don't want to miss my chance either.

Why is RW mandatory for playing infected/non-human characters? What doesn't RC cover?
I've been ignoring RW for some time now on the grounds of it being a luxury rather than a necessity, but I have a nosferatu in my home game so should it actually be my next book?

Arsenal is definitely the way to go. Literally everyone benefits from that book in one way or another; GM and player alike. Augmentation comes in second as even most magicians will consider an implant or two. Then comes Street Magic as it not only presents options for what is arguably the top preference for many players (in the form of either adepts or magicians), but offers lots of common or plot-important threats and magical security measures and countermeasures. This is unlike Unwired where hackers and technomancers are the only ones who benefit from it, and they also happen to be one of the least popular character options (but if this is different in your games, it should jump up in priority). I'd instead go with The Runner's Companion after Street Magic. It's similar to Arsenal in that everyone can benefit from it, but it contains more outrageous and secondary options compared to books like Arsenal or even Street Magic.

If you don't have all of the above books, however, wait on ones like Running Wild. They're useful, but nowhere nearly as much as any one of the books listed above. Even Unwired is likely to be used more by the group and GM as a whole. It certainly has been in my experience; statting your own critters is easy compared to coming up with the various rules and options in these other books, and is something you still have to do anything with NPCs. So it really doesn't help out that much at all.

After that, the various setting and sourcebooks that come into play, and it's pretty much pick-and-choose based on what kind of games you prefer to run. No one can really tell you which ones are more useful; you have to make that decision on your own. Unlike the above books. I mean, even if you run a specific niche game that's detailed in full in one of these tertiary books, any one of the main sourcebooks above will still be more useful for everyone involved. By a very long shot.

QFT

The upside to Augmentation is that it has a table covering all of the cyber and bioware that I find incredibly hepful.

Arsenal has extra goodies besides just guns, including chemicals, new tools (including manatech), martial arts, and a slew of new vehicles.

Street Magic is good bones, but only if you're going to be playing a dedicated mage (in which case it's pretty much essential). It doesn't do a whole lot for those out side it's main interest, besdies the GM, and including magical security and threats.

Unwired is pretty much the same as SM above, but with hackers, and a bunch of stuf for updating the tech level of the '70s.

Runners Companion I love beecause it gives you so much more for making characters, including Group contacts, new qualities, new metatypes, and clasifying old ones, etc.

These are all "crunch" books of course. For "fluff", adding material to the setting, I really enjoyed Runner Havens, and found a number of things I could add to my game. Same with Vice although I'm still working through that one, and it's going to be harder to get ATM.

personally I recommend, since you're a collector, picking up Vice, since theres not going to be a reprint


otherwise augmentation and street magic

What is Vice, anyway? I've seen mention to it, but that's it.

Basically, it's a sourcebook about the underworld and crime in general.

Ahh. I'll recommend it to my group then.

I agree completely. Carrying a laptop vs. 40 lbs. of books is also an added bonus.

fistandantilus4.0 is spot on with his suggestions, those books will get you going very easily.

Yeah but it doesn't smell the same. The pages don't feel the same. And who ever heard of curling up with a good laptop on a lazy afternoon!?

(Thanks for spelling my name right though. My old screen name was Bob3.0;) )

Well I had Sr4A, and Runner Havens. I got Runner's Companion when I found it pretty cheep on Ebay.

I posted this thread and got alot of 'Arsenal and Augmentation" So I ordered those. They're slow arriving though. I've since picked up Running Wild as well. I've always loved the para-critters.

I hear ya about picking up vice. I think that might be my next acquisition, for that exact reason. Small print run, pulled from shelves, unlikely to be reprinted. I DO collect so that will probably be next. (( the review thread is pretty nice too)).

Our group doesn't do much in the Matrix. Infact we usually have an "npc' Hacker to take care of that aspect. And we're actually lower on mages too.

So..

Have

SR4a
Runner Havens
Runner's Companion
Running Wild

Ordered (( Presumeably in the mail))
Augmentation
Arsenal

Planned next: In rough order... dependent on finding good non inflated prices online.

Vice (( For collector value, and the review looks nice))
Seattle 2072 (( Another pulled from shelves and apparently not as easy to find.))
Street Magic (( To give added options if someone DOES decide to go the mage route.))
Feral Cities
Unwired
Emergence
Corporate Enclaves
Ghost Cartels
On the Run


As a side note, I'm not against PDFs. I've got over 500 on my Ipad and the SR books look nice on it, but yeah I 'collect' as well as play so this thread was mostly for books to buy and have 'In hand"

If you're collecting, there are definitely some old ones I would reccomend, mostly for the fiction pieces or art.
Prime Runners
Virtual Realities
Cybertechnology


Some others were just great books as well, that IMO added a lot to the setting:

Lone Star
New Seattle
Sota:2063/64
Shadows of Europe
Target: Awakened Lands
Target: Smuggler Havens
Dragons of the Sixth World
Target:Matrix
Fields of fire
Underworld

Obviously most of these are quite dated, but a lot of the fluff within is still relevant, especially for ma history persepctive, or isn't really duplicated anywhere else. They're also great reads.

I'd suggest adjusting that order to:

Seattle 2072 - Absolutely the best resource for THE iconic city of the 6^th World
Street Magic - What makes Shadowrun NOT Cyberpunk, and this book brings more depth to the magic, rules and fluff both.
Unwired - OK, ditto the comments about Deckers. But the new software rules are seriously nice for everybody, even the Sam.
Corporate Enclaves - "That's where the work is". 'Nuff said. (Dead Tree's getting scarce.)
Vice - Depends on the flavor of your game if this is worth it.
Ghost Cartels - Depends on the flavor of your game if this is worth it.
Emergence - "Got 'Mancers?" If you do, this is vital background (no Crunchy Bits™ here kids) on how they slot in.
Feral Cities - OK, these are the "lost" cities of the 6th World. Excelellent if you want to play there. (Dead Tree's getting scarce.)
On the Run - (if you even bother, I think it's worthless)

I hope that's helpful. Oh, Amazon has very good prices on some books, IF they have them. DrivethruRPG online still seems to have a lot of material that's older at good prices.

Oh, while I'm mentioning "older material", if you want great fluff (since they haven't reprinted the equivalents yet...):

State of the Art, 2063
State of the Art, 2064
and most importantly for world feel (just add 'Mancers and Wireless everything instead of some wireless)
Sprawl Survival Guide

Well my reasoning for having Seattle 2072 below vice, is... I have SR4A, which the original setting is Seattle.

I have the Seattle book from 1st and 2nd editions.

I have Runner Havens, half of which is on Seattle.

So I've got quite a few books on Seattle already. I know it's updated to current time frame and all, but yeah.

*chuckles*

Yeah, keep telling yourself that, chummer, right up until you get the Dead Tree in your grubby paws. Trust me. This is not "Just Another Gaming Sourcebook™". There's a REASON the thing was nominated for an award. Amazon's got it for like 45% off with free shipping... arrives in about a week.

I'd echo the pass on On the Run. It's got an assumption written into the adventure that simply doesn't jive with most groups style of play. Assuming you do what most groups did, you end up bypassing it, and thereby miss about half the adventure, which leaves you going "is that it"?

Personally I'm a much bigger fan of Ghost Cartels, although it certainly isn't for the Hood-er type groups. More street level, working for drug dealers, enforcement work, with some wet work on the side. All in all, very thoroughly written book that takes you all over the world. Although definitely read it cover to cover before trying to run it.

Edit: Or go retro and pick up Brainscan.

Ok. Not being funny at all. I'm not being snarky at all.

I'm honestly asking.

What makes Seattle 2072, different /better than Runner Havens, or the previous Seattle books? Why will I like it? Please share. (( again. ___Honestly asking. NOT being a smart ass. I don't have the book and no stores around her carry them for me to flip though it))

Wouldn't have thought you were being snarky. On the other hand, you're probably not that familiar with me, either.

Honestly? Everything.

Each chapter (think overview, then each neighborhood, then follow-up) has its own intro piece of pure fluff fiction, that really does a superb job of setting the mood for the reader.

The artwork is absolutely awesome, and the "build quality" on the book is really good, even compared to other Catalyst products, more in line with the SR4A book, including the beautiful end pages etc, etc etc. This will become more important over time, because I still have my 1^st Ed Seattle Sourcebook, and it's starting to die, despite loving preservation efforts.

The detail of the neighborhoods, the maps, the locations, the people... sure, some of the old locations from the original 1^st Ed guide are still there, but some of them have changed, others need a face lift. New ones have emerged. The info in Runner's Havens is great for passing through or popping in and out. But if you're actually running full time in Seattle, nothing is going to give you the details that really help you build up the feel of the locale for your players, or your character backgrounds. (Side note to the folks at CGL: this treatment to Denver would be absolutely over-the-top, and I think you'd sell out in no time, seeing as how Denver is at the center of EVERYTHING on the North American continent.)

I guess it really boils down to two things: the beauty and quality of the product itself, and more importantly, the imersiveness of the environment. Sure, there's enough info to run in Seattle just from what you've already got... but to get into 2072 in the Emerald City complete with it's AR and street gangs and poverty and glamour and ... you get the idea. It's purely a fluff product, but if you're not running a magic-centric campaign (our current group is mostly Awakened), you can afford to wait on Street Magic a bit. That, and Seattle 2072's getting pretty hard to lay hands on in Brick-and-Mortar game stores and book stores in my area, whereas Street Magic is easy. You'd do yourself a huge disservice to run a campaign (or make a 'runner) based on the 1^st and 2^nd Ed material you have, losing all the possibilities and depth of building fully immersed after The Comet and Crash 2.0.

Hurrrm... Ok you make some good points and make it sound pretty. Good. I'll definitely keep an eye out for it. Sadly it seems to be the second most expensive one to find , with the runners companion being first ($70-95!!!). I lucked out on my Runner's Companion, found it for about $35.

I'll keep an eye out for Seattle 2072.

I kid you not, chummer, Amazon is your friend.

http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Seattle-2072-Catalyst-Game/dp/1934857580/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270770538&sr=8-1

$29.69, free shipping, direct from Amazon themselves, and IN STOCK for shipping.

My goal during the development process of Seattle 2072 was to marry the best of Seattle Sourcebook's "bite sized" information with the best of New Seattle's "building block" information about districts, corps, crime with some new and future plots to inject some freshness into Seattle _and_ set up a new baseline.

Well, Adam, speaking as somebody who was sadly dissapointed in the actual result of New Seattle, but who remembers Seattle Sourcebook with the kind of fondness that makes it the benchmark for all other site-centric world books since I first saw the thing, I didn't think anything could really live up to my towering expectations, but you managed brilliantly. I personally would like to have paid a couple more nuyen to get more of the glossy photo-layout adds like the old book had, but on that one product, I think I would have paid handsomely and willingly much more than your average buyer.

Anyhow, well done. Seriously. Not everything from Catalyst wows me (most is still lightyears beyond most modern game companies *cough* costal wizards *cough*) but this one and SR4A both set a tone I hope the rest of the world-related releases can sustain.

PJ - I'm not far from you and I have a copy if you want to take a look at it in person. I can vouch for the uber greatness of it first hand.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1934857459/ref=oss_product here you go chummer, for vice, better hurry though, only a few left

What more could you ask for? One-click shopping for your hardest-to-find products, at discount prices from one of the more reputable web retailers... You know, there's some nice folks 'roud these parts. Huh? No, that's not a flame-thrower... why do you ask?

And you knocked it out of the fucking park. It's beautiful, too. In case I haven't told you...excellent work, my friend. You done yourself proud developing that one.

I do thank you. Sadly I'm back in 'Planning stages' now.

Kinda spent.. you know. $800 on the Ipad.. Wife's cutting back my discretionary funds. She let me get 'two books" this pay check. I chose Augmentation and Arsenel.

I kinda... sorta slipped in Running Wild and caught hell for it.

I have to wait to next paycheck to hit her up for Vice and Seattle 2072 or there will be no happy happy fun time in the ol Pepsi Jedi Household, and she'll kick my ass too.

Now if I only had a company to mingle my funds with.....

Oh, SUCH bad taste... *grin*

As the stand-up comics would say: "too soon?"

Where the hell are you buying books, Mars? Check out Borders, they usually have SR sourcebooks for list price.

What? You mean eBay doesn't have the best prices?! Insanity.

Not quite...

http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Runners-Co...0931&sr=8-1

Amazon. 6 new starting at $94.95, and going up to $187.91... with a top out at $999.99 but that one seems fake. But it's there.

Amazon. 11 used. Starting at the lowest of $65 going up to $184.15....

Borders only has a player's guide for the video game.

Ebay currently has three.

$82.50 with $4 shipping

$94.95 with $4 shipping

and ONE... with three days bid left that's already to $22.with $3 shipping.

Barnes and Nobles

5 from $75 to $113.94

None on Overstock.

So sadly you're very much misinformed. And the high prices aren't just one place but all over. There's ONE COPY (( that I've found over about 5 sites)) on the internet under $65 and the bidding isn't done on it yet.

OP:
Arsenal... lots of stuff usable by everyone. Vehicles! Tons of toys for the street sams, deckers, riggers, and even the mages/adepts.

The others are far more situational....
I seem to get shanghaied into playing magical support a lot so I'd go w/ Street Magic, but Augmentation is better for your street sam & even decker types. Unwired is IMO the weakest of the lot and doesn't add enough and is rather confusing and suffers badly from the left hand author didn't know what the right hand author was doing.

The Seattle 2072 book is pretty good, but if you already have a lot of prior ed stuff, you probably don't need it.
Running wild has a lot of critters which are direct transplants of the critters in prior edition books updated to 4e stats... so again, you can get by with your old stuff if push comes to shove.


That said...
Small point... I don't know how the financial problems catalyst is sorting through will affect things. I noticed that at my gameshop most of the SRun and Battletech books disappeared in a week or two, and it's an open question when distributors will get more stock.

So you may be better to forgo permission and beg forgiveness first... in which case I'd probably go for Arsenal/Street Mag/ and Augmentation as the books you'll use most.


Kerenshara: good to see you back out of hibernation.

really?

http://www.langtoninfo.com/showitem.aspx?isbn=1934857092

http://www.scifigenre.com/itemDetail.aspx?nItemID=60267


the second one is temporarily out of stock, but the first one isn't

lol Yeah I picked up Arsenal, and Augmentation

Then did the 'Easier to get forgiveness than permission" route on Running wild. lol

Gonna grab Seattle 2072 and Vice next, as those ones might be in question, then start down the rest.

Edit: Though I will say. The people that I bought Augmentation and Arsenal from must be shipping them by Llama or something... slow getting here.

I recently obtained Runner's Companion from the Battleshop site. Cheaper than all the other sites listed above, but for an international player like I, the postage is the killer.

Book $35
Postage $38!

They both read out of stock to me. Someone either bought the last one after you posted or they were out of stock. lol

Yeah that sucks. I lucked out and found a cheep 'buy it now' on ebay a few weeks back. paid $32 total. $5.50 was shipping. Concidering the other prices. *Points up* that I'd seen it. I pounced on it. Awesome book too.

Lithium, one way you can kinda get around that is to find a friend you trust in the states with a good game store nearby. You send them money via paypal and have them pick up the books for you and ship them all at once as a gift to you. It'll save you cash long run... but assumes you can amass cash for a bulk purchase.

I know i can only afford a few a month myself.