I've always calculated Ballistic and Impact separately, though the rule doesn't explicitly say to do so (the FAQ may... I'm too lazy to go look).

This does mean that you can get good use out of three or more layers, though only the two best apply to any given rating - the armor jacket (5/3) + FFBA (4/1) + Rapid Transit jumpsuit (2/4) combo, for example. For Ballistic, the highest-rated layer would be the armor jacket and the next highest would be the FFBA, so it'd be 5+(4÷2), or 7 Ballistic. For Impact, the jumpsuit would be highest and the armor jacket would be next highest, so it'd be 4+(3÷2), or 5 Impact.

edit: Wild Hunt heavy armored clothing (4/0) + FFBA (4/1) + Rapid Transit heavy jumpsuit (2/4) + genuine leather (0/2) will give you four effective layers of armor... Wild Hunt + FFBA for Ballistic and Rapid Transit + leather for Impact, for a total of 6/5.

John, that is the way our team does it as well. It seems to makes sense.

I didn't say that it was a smart way to go about achieving a 6/5 armor rating. It was provided only as an example of a possible scenario in which four layers of armor could all contribute to the armor rating.

Granted, sheer tangent to the discussion, but -- just because a person could, theoretically layer four types of armor...is it a good or even plausible idea?

-Siege

If a firefight breaks out and you're not diving for cover, you know nothing about firefights. =)

1st rule of a firefight: Take cover!

I thought everyone knew that?

Kong

From a purely combat point of view, no. Layering more than 2 layers will almost certainly eat into your combat pool. Thus it is more adviseable to layer only 2 layers.

But if you are talking damage from special sources - flamethrowers, lightning bolts, DMSO cocktails, then yes. I am sure the modifications to armour provides protection that does stack. For example, the 2 points insulation on your armoured jacket stacks fully with the 4 points of insulation on your winterised coverall for a total of 6 points. Now that is good.

For some reason, I seem to remember that only 2 layers have any beneficial effect anyway, so... why wear more than 2 layers?

I haven't actually looked at the layering rules recently... need to play...need to play.. need to play...

that's a fairly silly way to interpret that sentence. if the armor stretches with your body, it stands to reason that it will also stretch when you breathe; there's no reason to mention the breathing specifically, unless it's referring to the fact that the material itself is breathable.

Does anyone here have the book (presumably the Street Sam Catalog) with the original description of FFBA? Does said description provide more detailed information?

"Breathable" materials, like gore-tex are only breathable to an extent. You will get sweaty inside them if you sweat hard enough but the sweat can escape at some rate unlike say a rubberized rain coat where sweat can only escape around the edges (ie neck, waist, wrist holes).


That scene in the abyss with the rat was real, and the rats they do that to usually survive. I am pretty sure they have done it to humans, but it is not exactly a safe procedure. The movie scene with the human was, however, fake.

a thing about the fluid breathing, and that movie

Looks like they have at least tested it for use on people with severe lung problems such as burns and premature births.

why in the world would it need to be specified that the material stretches when you breathe and when you move, as if you're not moving already when you breathe? that's an incredibly convoluted line of reasoning, there.

And B-list actors are that expendable.

Or maybe that's just stage theatre

~J

It would seem to me that the term 'premature births' in this case would be referring to a child born early, as opposed to a pregnant woman.

Ed Harris is not a b-list actor. Just thought I would clarify that.

Amen to that, His General Hummel character from The Rock was a great!

yeah that would be pretty disturbing. wonder if they'd have liquid breathing perfected by 2063, and what would the rules be?

I think there might be rules for it in target:wastelands and/or cyberpirates.

Yeah, they exist. They're in the Cannon Companion.

rock on, one of these days I gotta do some under the sea action. haven't really messed with it too much.

Eh -- someone may have house rules for wearing body armor in Seattle during August, but there isn't a canon ruling on heat exhaustion.

-Siege

I'd enforce the rules for weight (more armour is more weight) and Heat and Dehydration in T: WL (but only if the temp is as hot as that in the desert). It would seem that, for Canon at least, heat and dehydration works only in high temperatures.

SSC had a picture of it, but no layering stuff (I don't think there were any layering rules).

Really I hate that ffba doesnt count for layering penalties thing. I liked the fact that high quickness charachters could use quite a bit more armor than normal quickness ones and ffba dramatically narrows the gap in regular circumstances and gives high quickness charachters somewhat ludicrous armor when they don't need to hide it.

Still a 9 quickness charachter can do something like:
FFBA 4/1
Camo Suit / armor jacket 5/3
Forearm guards 0/1
Security Helmet 2/1 (which is easy to put on and take off)
Small Riot Shield 2/1 (again easy to use or not)

For a walking around total of 7/4 and an expecting trouble total of 11/6 without any penalties (other than one hand full of shield).

Hmm or is a small shield 1/2... oh well 11/6 or 10/7 whichever it is.

edit: oops had impact wrong.

I just got New Seattle and I read the weather section. Frankly, I do not see why one should enforce dehydration/heat rules for armour. 31 degrees Celsius in the summer isn't going to too hot unless you are wearing Military armour.

which will probably be designed to wick heat away from the body, anyway (as well as retaining heat in cooler weather).

11/6 sounds good but generally, I tend to break out the Ranger Arms SSM-3 when I see body armour. (My decker is not averse to combat, just being too close to it...) On the other hand, 14S will hurt less with all that armour.

It all depends on your style. If your GM lets you blast in, then it is all well and good. If not, you find another way. I tend to hide, hi-jack and high-tail it out.

As a GM, I would let the walking tank in and then drop a couple of thick blast-shields. Alternatively, gas works well against armour...

My other big idea; large electromagnet in a corridor. I do not care how tough you are, nobody smiles when their gear is stuck to the ceiling 40ft up and their cyberware dies... (least of all the decker...)

The electromagnet approach is similar to the EMP approach, which is to say it is not Canon that electromagnets will affect cyberware... other than magnetic hands.

I did not mention the electromagnet as an EMP type thing. I was talking about sticking things to the ceiling/wall. Guns are metal, they are wrenched out of your hands and then out of reach. And it you have metal armour or too much cyberware...

Interesting idea -- would the magnet be strong enough to affect mostly composite weapons?

-Siege

As powerful as the GM sees fit. I go in for 'remove the obvious answer' over 'strict truth' every time. It makes themes more important than rules lawyering.

The magnet would probably be strong enough to lift guns and small metal objects (like ammo) or wholly metal objects, though not enough to lift the chromed samurai off the ground. Perhaps enough to bend it out of shape a bit.

The result: we see how fast a character can get out of an exo-suit, we learn exactly how much metal the average runner carries and we may even see whether a dwarf would prefer to keep his gun or learn to fly.

All of a sudden, the team has very few weapons and half of their technology is temporarily offline. I will admit that many groups would die about here but I GM for the other type. They have about 60 seconds before Renraku Security arrive in the lift, 90 seconds before Lone Star breaks down the door. They lost contact with the decker when the radio hit the ceiling and the rigger was still connected when his drone was destroyed.

This is not an impossible challenge, we just took away all the easy answers and forced them to look at their background skills. If the group starts to rely on something, take it away from them. The well-written characters will be shaken but they will still stand up...

It's not so much a matter of the well-written characters as the skillful players.

~J

Most non-weapon equipment is likely plastic (especially a radio).

Granted a large magnet could screw up electronics and comms (plus cyber), but a properly holstered pistol would be anchored by the wearer.

Are there actually any decent/canon rules on EM effects?

Okay, fair point. It is the player more than the character, I agree. But on the other hand, good players tend to write good characters. The true strength is in the combination; their character is flexible enough to allow them to survive a situation.

Of course, it helps if you restrict them to their character's intelligence. I don't care how talented the player is, a troll with int 1 is not going to be able to come up with (or probably even follow) their masterful plan...

Of course, that's one of those situations where your typical troll doesn't need to think, because brute force and ignorance will get him through just fine. He might notice that he now has to hold his PAC down instead of up... but then, he might not. Doesn't matter either way.

As the dwarf, I'll go with brute force and stubbornness. It's not getting my axe away from me, even if I have to drag it across the ceiling.

As I recall most stuff is not ferrous metal in SR, including weapons. The magnetic cyberlimb description says that ferrous metal can be added to gun grips and so forth to take advantage of the system.

Although my players probably don't know this and it might be cool to try this out.

It need not be non-metallic, it just needs to be non ferrous/magnetic.