For me it's the metaplots. I really miss the metaplots and the larger than life stories. It's not enough just to have an uber munckin Cyber/Mystic/Adept with an Ally Spirit and a Tbird. I want my PCs to be involved in something that matters.

Which company can best do that?

Well, there hasn't been a company yet that has tried to kill off Shadowrun's metaplot. So, assuming the company doesn't kill off the idea of a metaplot, how much you like the metaplot development mostly comes down to the line developer and the writers.

See, I don't care about the metaplot at all; at most, it's the fluff for rule changes across editions.

Three posts in and three differing viewpoints! Bring Back the Metaplot, The Metaplot Never Left, and The Metaplot Serves No Major Purpose!

<3 Shadowrun.

Which pretty much sums up the "Spirit of Dumpshock" ask three people the same question and you'll get 5 answers

Only 5?

Who did it best? FASA. You can often imitate but never replicate. But I'm a sucker for nostalgia.

And I like the metaplots, and I feel that they remain to this day. However, there are WAY to many holes. I know, these are left intentionally to make you desire to know more and buy the latest wiz book. Or you could just fill them in yourself. Then a new book comes out and everything you came up with is junk...

Not to mention two threads, same basic premise. There's another thread with a poll around here somewhere with the same stuff. I'll say the same basic thing here that I did there:

Quality of Work with a minor caveat to usability of material.

On that score CGL gets higher marks then any other company out there. There are other companies out there who do good work especially on their pet system/game world, but CGL has been a good incumbent to a customer standpoint I see no reason not to pick them over a dark horse.

Edit: Clarified

If you had fun with it, was it junk? Of course not. Funny that RPG publishers are damned if they do something -- make a change, advance a plot, etc -- and damned if they don't. I'd rather be damned for doing something than not doing anything (and doing things generally makes more money )

Punk, math, grit and explosions. In a nutshell, SR2

However, I don't think Shadowrun will ever, officially, go that way again. So I'd rather have the company which includes the most metaplot and splat books relevant to the SR3 campaigns I play. So far, CGL has done quite well at that. I don't care if they change to SR5 or a new mechanics system, as long as it doesn't go to a linear probability mechanic. Then I'll just cry.

Yeah, the metaplot has never gotten in the way of what I wanted to do. Maybe I took an open plot hook and developed an entire campaign around it, only to discover that it got covered in a later SR book. So? I'll just typically go with what I came up with and maybe see if I can use the SR-developed material elsewhere.

As long as CGL keeps putting out books, I'm happy with them. And as long as WotC doesn't get the license. The last thing we need is a d20 Shadowrun.... That's just my opinion.



I don't disagree with that at all. I just wish my players were on the same page. But once we finish a story, and even act on it in the next one, then other book comes out and you find out Ghostwalker was actually a fairy princess in disguise, they're just ready to kick whatever we did right out the window in favor fr "offical" story.

I second here. If there is one thing I really hate is linear probability distribution.

Perhaps there's a business model not yet discovered where we could hint what a new product will be about, how it will screw up what the fans are doing and then how much they can pay us not to release it. Hmmmmmm....

My favorite part of SR is the integration of combat, magic, and matrix. Yes, this is the perennial problem, but it's also where SR stands out for me from games like Heavy Gear, Exalted, or D&D. And I'm not saying just in the setting sense, because it's supported by the mechanic, especially since the matrix went wireless.

It's the 'Heist' effect, or whatever people are calling it. Sure, you can do something like that in other games, but SR has all the mechanics for it, all at once, out of the box.

I have no opinion about one publisher over another, though.

My solemn promise to all you denizens of Dumpshock is this: Ghostwalker is not a fairy princess in disguise. And you can quote me on that.

Jason H.

So much for that proposal....

Piazo... They really didnt change 3.5 all that much to make Pathfinder so we would have a tweaked SR4A with shiny new books and alot of adventures.

Sorry! Where's the poll? What were the results?

Totally agree. For me, Fields of Fire was the best book we've ever head in the SR line. Great dialogue. Great plot hooks. Opportunities for grit or cyber/magic/matrix/vehicle munchkinism. It had it all. Also, the best cover of any SR book. Next best was Street Samurai Catalogue. SR2 will always have a special place in my heart, but I definitely appreciate the better layout, fixed TNs, and a wireless matrix. Keep that and bring back the whizdrek.

BTW: What's Tom Dowd up to these days?

I'm all for CGL pulling it out and holding onto my baby. Situations/bumps aside, I've been consistently impressed with the plot, mechanic, and production quality to come out of CGL. And no, that's not a sockpuppet post or anything. I love the old FASA stuff. Hell, that's where the ball got rolling. But I'm perfectly happy with Shadowrun in the hands of CGL, and I'd rather they keep cranking out the awesome then have to cross my fingers and hope another company doesn't fuck it up.

Here. Looks like 60% of respondents are in favor of CGL retaining the license.

Teaching game design at a university in Chicago.

They teach classes for that? And people say we need higher education reform...

Between some things like the vastly improved matrix rules, the freely availible missions series, and some other things I'd be happy if catalyst can hang on.

Though I wish they'd bring in some more decker chat type stuff. I also enjoy to the metaplot. It probably isn't so relevent for the newbloods. But I think it really makes things enjoyable for the old school.

It also allows for a ramp up from gang trouble on your local street to something Epic that is handled better than other systems in my opinion.


To that end if it can't be Catalyst I'd probably like to see it go to RedBrick, as they have the Earthdawn licence.

Fascinating. Thanks!

In a poll of CGL vs. the unknown, fans (or at least the dumpshocked) choose CGL. I'd love to see the poll repeated as CGL vs. a known. I.E. I'm pretty sure we know what the results of CGL vs. WotC would be. I'm much less sure about CGL vs. Posthuman or even Wildfire or Redbrick.

My mom went to high school with the senior crossword editor for the New York Times, Will Shortz. He graduated from Indiana University with a degree in enigmatology. If you can take advantage of a school with an Individualized Major Program you can study what you want. I know of people who have degrees in Comic and Graphic Novel Literature, Games and Game Design... all kinds of geeky stuff.

No doubt there is a wide range of open-ended cool things you can do in Shadowrun. Magic, machine guns, awesome tech... check, check, hell-fraggin check. But in what other setting do you have to assume you're getting set up by someone who's working for someone else that is actually using them as a front while someone else is getting them what they really need and at the end, the above layout you thought you had figured out is actually several layers away from the truth... but if you somehow survive, you get a wad of nuyen? There is no other.

No, he's a Lone Star Cop riding a Unicorn to see the Tiger Eyes Magic Belly Button Jewel while the ADAM AI works on controlling the world...

-M&P

I wonder if the Attitude book JH was talking about is going to be in that vein...

So long as he's not a werewolf with questionable sexual preferences or a drop bear.

(Wipes drool off trackpad)

If it is, that...would...almost...be...enough...to...(gulp)...make Loren Coleman richer.

This. Although I love the metaplots, I don't let them chain me.


When I first read the overview of SR1, I knew this was the game for my group!


This may be true, but Piazo did have a lot of 3.5 product prior to the Pathfinder RPG.


QFT

Grexul

IF the current company fails, I vote for Mongoose, or AEG

For those old school fans, here's Tom Dowd's blog: http://storybydesign.wordpress.com/

I liked the short, paperback Shadowrun books that provided a nice backdrop to the world. I could read these in an afternoon. Now, the books are huge and take days to get through.

I love the setting first, the potential for more than just shadowrunning second (which is just a testiomy to how awesome the setting is), the current metaplot a distant third, and the rules... not that much. I'd love to see the return of real shadowtalk, too. Not "enlightened" editorial comments in the guise of shadowtalk, but real, honest to God shadowtalk. Especially when discussing equipment and the like. That was some of my favorite bits in past books. And yeah, it required breaking the fourth wall quite a bit, but so what? Having the books spammed with cool in-game advertisements and not just random posings of shadowrunners would be great, too.

Most of all, I really hope that if another company takes over and decides to create a new edition, they don't use SR4's core dice mechanic. No, the old dice mechanic wasn't flawless, but at least it had flavor and style, and it allowed different types of modifiers and bonuses to impact an action in different ways. I want those kinds of options, as well as exploding dice, returned to the game. Edge needs to die a horrible, tragic death, too. Hopefully the Matrix rules would actually be streamlined and treated sensibly rather than overly complex as well, but that may be asking way too much.

QFT



Not so much, but not wanting to get into the fixed/variable TN# debate, either.

The "perfect" Shadowrun: Tom Dowd as lead writer, Rob Boyle as line developer, Adam Jury layout, Robert Derie for the metaplot/continuity. Who's with me?

Actually, I was referring more to things like the mechanical difference between Attributes and Skills, and how situational modifiers didn't equate to basically being skill modifiers since they all used the exact same system. I wasn't saying I wanted the old mechanic back. I'd just prefer something with a little more style to it than the dreadfully dull and lifeless mechanic we have now.

Agreed, I'm not a big fan of the combined dice pool either, though we're straying pretty far off topic. [Begin vain attempt to get back on topic:] Which company/developer is most likely to fix these rules to add excitement and life?

Actually, I'd like to see Tinker and Smith [re]gain the license (via Jordan Wiseman), put Tom Dowd back as Line Developer, Jay Levine and Bobby Derie as lead writers, and Adam in charge of Layout/Computer guy. I've never met a man with a passion for games like I have in Jordan Wiseman, so I think he'd do a good job.

I'm not that big a fan of the meta plot. I like things to be happening, and the world to change, but not major things that affect the entire world, requiring me to change tracks. Things like "who won the election" or "what's happening in China right now?" are great color and backdrops. They're events that give players a better connection to the game world.

For published output, I enjoy the setting books. Where can we go next? Or "what is it really like here?"

For rules, I don't want a new edition for at least another ten years. Expansions every couple of years are nice. New metamagic or 'ware is cool.

Agreed. BTW: did you catch Tom Dowd's cameo?

There were some interesting changes that they did make, not precisely what I would have opted for but still...interesting.



Certainly, Jordan has incredible passion for games, great ideas, and the ability to surround himself with people to breath life into those ideas.

I wouldn't mind that at all. I think that would be a great thing to happen, if the license should be up for grabs.

I really don't want a new edition right now, SR4A hasn't been around for very long, and I'll probably me starting up my very first SR4 campaign in a couple months, the prospect of another edition coming so soon would really shut down some of my motivation for finally getting deep into SR4

Shadowrun was first released in 1989. Second edition was released in 1992. Third edition was released in 1998. Fourth edition was released in 2005. Three years, six years, and six years between editions. Fourth edition hits year six in eight months.

It's not unreasonable to believe a fifth edition could be released in 2011. It's also not unreasonable to believe that if a new publisher were to pick up the Shadowrun license that it would wipe the slate clean by releasing a fifth edition as its first product offering.

However fourth edition has been a fairly successful venture. I'd imagine the differences between a fifth edition and the fourth would be more like the subtle ones between first and second; a tweaking or rewriting of specific rules that, even with SR4A, still seem to cause a good deal of consternation (vehicle combat, some Matrix stuff, etc.), rather than building a new engine.

Never said it would be unreasonable to do so It's just a personal opinion that I hope for SR4 to keep going for another couple years, especially with the relatively new anniversary edition which sparked my enthusiasm for Shadowrun again after a couple years.

I don't think anyone is in a rush for a new edition. Fourth Edition has only recently established its foundation with the release of all of the core sourcebooks. I guess you can never tell what might happen, but I think it would be a shame to toss out everything that was just recently put into the new edition.

Debatable. I'm certainly not in a rush either but there's a) historical precedent and b) very real business practices that might make a fifth edition release happen sooner rather than later.



I don't believe that tossing everything would be the case. Playing pretend for a second, a smart publisher would release a fifth edition conversion errata document to accompany all the 4E core rule books. Like I said, I don't believe a drastic change is in store for a new edition. Or I least I hope...

But key word here is smart publisher. A dumb one would throw out everything.

The more I think about this, the more I love this idea. Doesn't he already own the electronic rights to Shadowrun? If he picks up the PnP license that would eliminate the legal barriers to the Shadowrun iPad app or subscription based electronic offerings.

Who knows how to reach this guy? If we could get Tom Dowd to make a comment, surely we could get Jordan to weigh in...