Be calm, D2F. I was responding to the post above mine, which was talking about looks.

Another annoying way to stop a roadmaster is simply earthen berms behind reinforced concrete retaining walls and shallow lakes. A good MSE wall would serve the purpose of both a concrete wall and blunt an attack by most explosives (unless the players are using 250-2000lbs bombs). A shallow lake of 3-4 feet deep would simply cause the citymaster to sink and once it sinks far enough into the mud/sand it would simply stop.

The advantage of using landscaping to stopping an attack is it is both aesthetically pleasing and effective. We also have large planted trees that would damage most vehicles if you have the time for landscaping. The trees have the added benefit of preventing an aerial landing.

APC drives through gate. Floor falls out from under APC, vehicle drops into a deep hole that immediately has an armored cover close over it.

If feeling particularly mean, have a massive amount of quick setting 2-part epoxy flood the chamber. If you design the chamber right you can even have attachment points automatically set into the resulting plastic block for easy lifting with a crane later.

I have actually seen videos of a compressed air system that has a bunch of nozzles buried under a section of roadbed. When the system is turned on it injects high pressure air into the roadbed. This massively disrupts the structural stability of the area and a vehicle on the roadbed at the time simply falls into the ground as if it were a hole. When the air is turned off the vehicle is mired in the ground. Granted, this is a one-shot system, as resetting it involves rebuilding the roadbed every time, but it was being tested as an alternative to big pop-up barriers.



-np

As I said in a previous post since we don't know exactly what mods the OP has placed on said Roadmaster we can't really begin to compare. I used the base to show you how much more common they were than a Citymaster. I really don't see where you are coming up with 20F for availibity, although I agree it will be more expensive than a stock Citymaster.

Pop up barriers will always be the preferance if you have to choose between the two. I live on a military post and seeing how fast those barriers raise you are pretty much garunteed to stop whatever is coming through the gate. You also don't have to rebuild after every deployment.

Mainly the original rigger black book.

We know a few modifications, namely the armor and weapons. The 20F come from the turret.

1. I am calm.
2. Regardless of who you replied to, your reply contained inaccuracies.
3. I corrected them.

OP here. Had the run last night, thought you guys deserved some follow-up for all of your helpful comments.

First, the reason we have an upgraded Roadmaster instead of a Citymaster is that the opposition several missions ago were using a Roadmaster to move an arms shipment. We used buried charges in the road and an Assault Cannon with AV rounds to stop it, then murdered the gangsters and thought, "Why bother unloading the shipment when we can just steal the truck?" It's been in my Rigger's shop for a few months now. If I were shopping instead of looting, I would probably have taken the Citymaster just because it comes with a free turret mount; I wound up running out of mod slots on the Roadmaster pretty quickly, and installing all three weapon systems used so much space I couldn't make any of them internal. The Roadmaster may be the civilian version, but with a GM Vigilant Light Autocannon bolted to the roof, I don't think I'm going to be flying under the radar.

Regarding ramming damage, the GM ruled that taking BodyX1 (16p) damage was insufficient to get through the 20 points of hardened armor on the vehicle. I understand where that idea comes from, but it does seem overly generous. I didn't want to stop the game to argue about rules (rules in my favor, even) but I figure there must be something in RAW that says I can't ram through walls with impunity just because I added 4k in armor plate and couldn't fail a drive test if I had a concussion. Does anyone have a page number or rules quote I can show the group regarding the proper application of ramming damage the next time this comes up?

We decided to ram our way through one of the walls supporting a laser turret; this wound up being fortunate, since ramming the gate would have turned the next four meters into a pit trap and armed the anti-vehicular mines along the road. The corp who was paying us to playtest their security system probably learned quite a bit about their other systems, as well - such as a 7DV Laser not being an effective anti-tank weapon. We managed to shrug off all the fire the various drones, guards, snipers and turrets managed to throw at us. There was a tense moment when the Force 5 Earth Elemental phased into the cabin with us. Of course, he phased in between the Fomorian Troll and the Full-Body Cyborg Ork. They both had overpowered weapons, strong dice pools, and beat the little creep on initiative. I almost feel bad about it. Without any major damage, we rammed right through the front wall into the office building.

I doubt the GM will let us get away with it twice; I expect stronger spirits, heavier energy weapons, and thicker walls the next time we try something like this. Still, it was a great feeling to put my vehicle-specialized Rigger behind the wheel and just annihilate everything that tried to get in our way. We've been running these characters for almost a year now, and it was nice to finally prove that I'm every bit as overpowered as the other munchkins when I can bring my particular skills into play against the poor, doomed bastards that are trying to stop us.

And that's what's it's all about. Glad you had a good time.

A bottle, gas and heavy oil mix. The Russians used it on german tanks in WW2. It raises the temp inside the tank until it gets too how and the people past out and die or they open the tank up and vent. If they do that you throw a grenade in the hatch.

at the time we did not know the location of the autocannon all he said was autocannon. But yes since it is bolted to the roof it is somewhat obvious, though a mask spell would help you get around town, and there probably is some physical way to disguise it before you start shooting.

A couch and some bungee chords?

The lowest estimate would be 15F then.

Yes
Or a cardboard communications array? Something is probably possible.



But how does the availability of a potentially concealed item effect the response you get for driving it around town? If no one sees the autocannon security teams wont be showing up to kill you over it. And while a pop-up turret is probably impossible at this size of vehicle for an autocannon there are mounts that are concealed but they just give up the turrets range of motion. If you are going with autocannon as a shadowrunner, I generally think those options are the better choice.

That was never the question. The question was about stats and availability. I proved that they were both equal or at least mostly comparable and could therefore be used interchangeably. Whether or not the authorities react to the vehicle is irrelevant to the question.

Maybe to you, D2F, but his specific point was that a Citymaster would be visually different from a Roadmaster, resulting in a difference in terms of attention drawn.

And his specific point was wrong, because they look almost exactly alike.

Especially if you, you know, look at what they actually come with. The Citymaster comes standard with Life Support 2, Personal Armor 8, and a Weapon Mount (External Remote Control Turret). The Roadmaster only comes with Life Support 1, Personal Armor 6, and 2 Gun Ports.

Yeah, D2F's point is that this isn't concealed armor or a concealed main gun. It's a damn tank. Based on an armored car, but still a tank.

While it is true that the responses would be similar, I wasn't actually talking about responses at all. My reply was to a post that complained about posters using the terms "Roadmaster" and "Citymaster" interchangeably within the thread. I remarked that the term can be used interchangeably in this context, as the vehicle (the modified roadmaster) was near identical in stats and appearance to the Citymaster (considering that the Citymaster is merely a security version of the Roadmaster to begin with). When the issue of availability came up, I pointed out that they are still comparable. I used a remote controlled popup turret as the baseline for the availability, which led to an error in my availabiliy estimate, so I had to adjust the lowest estimate down to 15F for the modified roadmaster (disregarding the nescessary tools for the modifications, which would raise the availability back to 20F).

How authorities would respond to the modifed roadmaster was never a point of contention, as too many unknown factors would influence such a scenario. In other words: I don't really care how they would react. That's up to the GM. My sole argument was about the interchangeability of the terms "Roadmaster" and "Citymaster" in the context of this thread. I don't understand why so many posters seem to have a problem undterstanding that.

Oh. I do care, and it makes sense that the reaction would be different. Maybe I misread the post, but if the point is reaction to their appearance, they're not interchangeable.

This worked well on the WW2 tanks with badly protected engine (and probably normal civilian or unarmored vehicles), but not against modern APCs, tanks etc.

The burning mixture might heat the vehicle somewhat, but it will probably take too long time for it to be efficient.

First of all, the HRT team will show up with the assault chopper (or whatever means necessary) if they're called to take care of a fragging APC!

On the top of my head, here are a few things that could work (besides big guns):
* Freeze foam. I guess it could at least slow it down, and prevent the use of the turrets or the opening of hatches.
* If it's not warded, have a spirit go inside and materialize and destroy everything. If it's warded, have the spirit destroy the barrier first.

It wasn't, though. And even if it were, how different would the reaction be to a regular APC as opposed to a heavily armored truck with a huge CANNON on top of it. What is your definition of an APC? The armor he used is visible. It is plain obvious (otherwise it wouldn't be an armor rating of 20). So it is already a heavily armored truck. Somethng like this or this or this or this or even this. And on top of it there is a cannon the size of this.

The cannon is the point where the reaction changes. A citymaster comes with the turret, the roadmaster doesn't. If you slap a turret on the roadmaster the reaction will be the same as the citymaster, if you slap a autocannon as opposed to a watercannon on it and the response will be bigger than the standard citymaster.

A armored vehicle does not in itself draw any kind of reaction, you will notice it but you wont be calling anybody for backup. Any time and corp wants to transport goods of value it is going in a armored vehicle. They will be somewhat common on the roads, much more common than a armored car of today would be. And last time I checked I don't call for a swat team every time the armored car pulls up to the store to collect that days cash drop.

Full agreement on my part.

My point exactly, thank you.

The ype of armor still has some effect - an armored truck won't raise eyebrows. The same armored truck with added anti-RPG slat armor or reactive armor tiles will draw attention since thes are designed to defeat military grade threats.

Granted, but so will any vehicle with said armor or weapons. If you somehow mount armor and an autocannon on a shopping cart you are going to get the same response.

Wait....when did the Roadmaster change from an RV modeled off of the Citymaster to an armoured car?
I mean, seriously...I had just been continuing to use it as I had original read it ages ago in RBB....

When the owner slabbed 20 points hardened armor on it

Going off topic: Actually it was the Finns vs the Russians in 39. IIRC-it was named after Molatov who was the Soviet foreign minister at the time.

Sorry, history buff here....

Even the Roadmaster is described in SR4 as a heavily and obviously armored truck. So yeah its like an armored car of today I'd think. Slapping on an extra 4 armor(citymaster level) probably does not change how obvious it is, if you somehow slapped on an extra 10+ then it would probably be more obvious.