QUOTE (Redcrow @ May 26 2010, 06:22 PM)
Sure, if the caster is out in the open with few other people around it might be fairly easy to figure out who is doing it. But as I pointed out in earlier posts there are numerous situations where being spotted is anything but easy. My players aren't stupid, they aren't going to try Mind Probe on someone out in the open where it would be easy to spot them. They are going to do it from relative cover. Being sneaky is par for the course with most Shadowrunner activity, so I see no reason to assume that they wouldn't follow suit when using something like Mind Probe. Maybe being stealthy is just more common in my games.
But lets not forget that your spellcaster/target using the spell is going to be sufferring the sme penalties to cast th e spell... distractions work both ways... Yes, being sneaky is par for the course... but hte ability to remove yourself from LOS is also pretty damn easy, especially when you feel someone screwing with your mind...
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What is the self destruct code to the Death Star? Fairly straight forward and I can't see much room for confusion. Sure, as a GM I can always screw over the caster and give them the "old" self destruct code or some other useless piece of information, but its a bit heavy-handed to constantly be doing that just because I don't particularly like the way the spell works. Far easier just to nerf the spell into something less obtrusive to the game.
So you have the code to self-destruct... great, but you do not know that hte code changes every hour, or that the security procedures to get in are updated every Hour, or that there are 5 Levels of security to penetrate before you even have the chance to do anything with that code... Having just one piece of the puzzle still means that you are missing a vast number of other pieces... you cannot assume that it is going to be that easy... One spell and you have the answers to the Universe... Really? Not at my table anyways... it has nothing to do with screwing over the players... it has everything to do with having a challenging scenario that has more levels than One...
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Also, the target doesn't "answer" anything. The caster gains whatever piece of information he is looking for if the target has it. Period. Sure, it may only be the truth as the target knows it, but that is really completely beside the point and just another GM tactic that would get old rather quickly.
Sure... the "answer" is just a way of delineating the response, which is of course something that you have gleaned... but you cannot glean any more than you ask, and you damn well better be specific, because vague questions result in vague answers... so again, it is going to take a while to extract any relevant information, if you want to be thorough about it... Again, More layers than One... if you don't have complicated Scenarios, with many possible twists and turns, where One hand may not know what the other hand is doing, then yes... it becomes a very powerful spell... In 20 years of playing, I have never seen Mind Probe as being an Instant "I Win" button like is being claimed here...
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It is not easy to foil at all unless the target is either awakened themselves or guarded by someone who is. I have not read a single method of foiling the spell that doesn't rely on GM heavy-handedness by dishing out consequences that seem disproportionate to the situation and those only after the fact, or by the intervention of another awakened person intervening in some way.
Remove from line of Sight... Case Closed... spell fails...
Any Resistance Successes will reduce your successes, and you may not get the level of detail you want... Spell Useless...
Spell Resistance... adds Dice, Possible more resistance Successes... Spell Useless/Fails...
Counterspelling from allied Mage... Spell Useless/Fails...
Target may not know what you are asking... Lackeys generally do not know anything important... Spell Useless...
There are many other permutations to this scenario... that was Just 5 in a minutes worth of thinking...
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Physical Torture/Interrogation while your mage keeps up an Analyze Truth spell can not be performed with the same anonymity as simply doing a Mind Probe. Even if the target is blindfolded or the Torturers all wearing masks to conceal their identity, they still have to get the subject somewhere alone. If Mind Probe were equally as vulgar and obvious as Physical Torture/Interrogation, I wouldn't have any problem at all with it. But its not, so the two scenarios aren't equal. Not only will Mind Probe give you the information you are looking for, it will also be the truth as far as the target knows it.
Sure it can... Capture the Target... Keep him in a Dark Room, Hooded so he cannot see... Bring in the Interrogators and the Mage (Mage remains quiet)... proceed to Torture and ask questions... eventually every one breaks... Spell verifies veracity... target has no idea who is involved... Run Proceeds...
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Mind Probe can be performed in seconds, requires few net hits, and can be done from a distance and if successful will always reveal the truth as the target knows it. Can you think of a single traditional Interrogation technique that beats that? I sure can't.
Sure, Sodium Pentathol with an Analyze Truth Spell to verify Veracity... and I can guarantee you that you will be involved with your Mind Probe Spell a lot longer than a few seconds... especially if the Target has anything to say about it... the only time that you will hold all of the cards, is if the target has been apprehended, and is immobolized, and is unable to do anything about it, at which point, any old technique of interrogation will work just fine...
Can the Mind Probe Spell be useful? Sure...
Is it a MOnumentally overpowered Spell that ruins games? NO... Not in my experience...
Your mileage may indeed vary, but I think that many people are making a mountain out of a molehill here...
Keep the Faith