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augmentin
"Drones sensor systems also count; each drone can supply a number of sensor channels equal to its Sensor rating." - Unwired, p. 125.

A human with a simsense (3 channels), Cybereyes (presumably another three channels), and cyberears (again, presumably another three channels) can max out a rating 4 Tacnet.

A drone needs Sensor 8. What gives? Is this even possible?
Draco18s
QUOTE (augmentin @ May 28 2010, 01:44 PM) *
A human with a simsense (3 channels), Cybereyes (presumably another three channels), and cyberears (again, presumably another three channels) can max out a rating 4 Tacnet.


An augmented human can feasibly supply 10 channels.

The worst part is if you add a drone (sensor 6) to your Rating 4 tacnet somehow everyone loses their entire bonus.
Ascalaphus
Let's face it: both TacNets and Drone Sensors are bad rules.
LurkerOutThere
It's not, but honestly I'm ok with this as it gives the human element a bit of an edge. Besides to be one hundred percent honest from a Shadowrunners perspective do you really want to see 100 strong corporate drone fleets all sporting level three tacnets?
Yerameyahu
I know there was already a thread on this but: three channels of audio? Three channels of simsense?

I'm not really a fan of tacnets in the first place; seems like another cheesy bonus. Still, in the case of drones, maybe you should deal with the actual sensors in the system, not their rating—which highlights the same *old* problem of quality vs. quantity of tacnet sensors.
jimbo
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 28 2010, 04:42 PM) *
I know there was already a thread on this but: three channels of audio? Three channels of simsense?


Audio: Audio Enhancement, Select Sound Filter, Spatial whatever

Simsense: Use a simrig so that natural eyes, ears, and smell count as a channel.

That being said, I can see Select Sound Filter helping with infiltration, but how olfactory counts as a channel *all* the time instead of for a few very, very limited applications of TacNet is beyond me. But I gess it's just easier to set simple requirements for the sensor channels and run with it.
Udoshi
Uh. Drones are great on the tacnet. Nothing stops them from claiming the other Extra senses.

Give the drone's camera a Smartlink, and bam, extra channel. Drone cams/mics/sensors are still able to take other sensory enhancements such as low-light, thermographic, smartlink, ultrasound, radar, spatial recognizers, and so on each count as a seperate sensor channel.

Yeah. Drones are hardly tacnet gimped; with the right sensor package configuration, you can even double dip with it.
augmentin
QUOTE (Udoshi @ May 28 2010, 04:51 PM) *
Uh. Drones are great on the tacnet. Nothing stops them from claiming the other Extra senses.

Give the drone's camera a Smartlink, and bam, extra channel. Drone cams/mics/sensors are still able to take other sensory enhancements such as low-light, thermographic, smartlink, ultrasound, radar, spatial recognizers, and so on each count as a seperate sensor channel.

Yeah. Drones are hardly tacnet gimped; with the right sensor package configuration, you can even double dip with it.


So, can we get a ruling on this? Lurker says they can't. Udoshi says they can. What's the general consensus? Thanks!
Udoshi
Welp. I tend to look at the rules very plainly, and leave my opinion entirely out of it.

When you read the drone section, nowhere in it does it say 'oh god! the entire other section magically doesn't apply! Drones -clearly- can't benefit from a thermographic sight if they happen to have one!'

.... to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if it was written before the custom sensor loadout rules in arsenal came to be. As I recall, it took till a few errata versions to clarify that you recalculated the Sensor rating if you changed stuff. Before, it was simply 'oh, hey, sensor 3, 3 free channels. Great, now I still need to put some more on' instead of 'haha, all i need is a bit of cash and all my drones have sensor 6.'
Karoline
Maximum number of sensor channels for a human is way above 10.

Sight, Sound, Touch, Taste, Smell from simsense (Yes, taste totally counts just like smell does)
5
Low Light, Thermographic, Ultrasound, Radar, Sonar, UWBR, Smartgun, Vision Enhancement from cybereyes/headware/goggles or wherever you want to get all those from.
13
Audio Enhancement, Select Sound Filter, Spacial Recognizer
16
That smell enhancement cyberware
17
Tactile Sensitivity
18
And the person hasn't even bought a sensor package with atmospheric analyzers in it yet.
augmentin
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 28 2010, 06:52 PM) *
Maximum number of sensor channels for a human is way above 10.


If I'm not mistaken, (and I very well may be) 4th ed caps the bonus at +3 so any # of channels over 8 is irrelevant. My concern is what Draco pointed out: adding drones to the Tacnets hurts your bonus, not helps. Unless Udoshi's right about the sensor rules. I'm hoping this thread will produce some sort of a consensus. (Yeah, I know this is dumpshock, but, hey, we live in hope...)
Sengir
QUOTE (augmentin @ May 28 2010, 06:44 PM) *
"Drones sensor systems also count; each drone can supply a number of sensor channels equal to its Sensor rating."

And right above that: "Sensory enhancements such as low-light, thermographic, smartlink, ultrasound, radar, spatial recognizers, and so on each count as a separate sensor channel.". I don't see why this should not apply to drones just because the basic number of cannels a drone provides is determined by its sensor rating instead of the number of "senses" it has.
Banaticus
QUOTE (jimbo @ May 28 2010, 01:53 PM) *
That being said, I can see Select Sound Filter helping with infiltration, but how olfactory counts as a channel *all* the time instead of for a few very, very limited applications of TacNet is beyond me. But I gess it's just easier to set simple requirements for the sensor channels and run with it.

"Excellent," Kevin thought to himself, the run was going perfectly. Suddenly a strong smell of blueberries hit him. Lemon! Lemon! He sneezed and responded with potatoes. "Good ol' potatoes, get's 'em every time." Then wet grass, oh no, not wet grass... dirt. Fresh fish and hot pumpernickel bread with a dollop of butter melting in. Only one thing could save him now. Pine! Buckets of pine sap surrounded by mounds of pine leaves, covering up the dirt, turning into mulch, heady strong smelling pine. Finally. He collapsed back into his chair, emotionally and physically drained. The fight hadn't all been conducted literally nasally, there had been minor visual, tactile, auditory, and gustatory battles had been fought as well. There had been violins, needles, oboes, green lights, cellos, dripping water, tambourines, oil, denim, shag carpeting and bonsai trees. If he hadn't had those spirits, he never would have survived. He leaned forward and stretched, a feeling of discontent settling over him. Although he was happy to be alive, although he was somewhat astonished and grateful that he'd managed to respond and reciprocate on all those channels at once, the normal world just seemed so... bland.
Karoline
QUOTE (Banaticus @ May 28 2010, 11:13 PM) *
although he was somewhat astonished and grateful that he'd managed to respond and reciprocate on all those channels at once, the normal world just seemed so... bland.


That's one thing I often think about people that have a dozen different visual/auditory enhancements, and how difficult it must be to keep everything separate. Same goes for TacNet. For the most part I'd think joining one would just overload you entirely. I mean most people have difficulty walking and talking at the same time (No really, most people slow down significantly when they have to do both at the same time, you notice it all the time on school campuses.)

"John didn't know why exactly the knowledge that there was a 75% chance of rain tomorrow afternoon made him such a damn good shot, but he wasn't going to argue with the results."

Hmm, sounds like a Farside comic.
Yerameyahu
Yeah, there's no way that taste, touch, and smell count (99.9% of the time), nor Select Sound Filters, usually not Atmospheric, etc., etc. I'm barely convinced that Audio/Vision Enhancement counts as a 'sense channel', even.

I assume the drone Sensor rating is that same for tacnets as it is for sensors: an abstraction, just like Professional Rating. It's to save you time if you're *not* using custom sensors. If you are, you use them as normal (I think this is what Udoshi said?).
Falconer
No Udoshi is intentionally misreading... the CLEAR TEXT of the rules are VERY explicit. A drone can contribute a number of channels of sensory data equal to it's sensor rating. He then *REDEFINES* it as the base... then adds more channels as he sees fit. Drones are given their very own section in the rules in question and I'd suggest not changing it.

The rules say *can*... not this is the base and now start adding more. "equal to it's sensor rating" indicates an upper limit.

This is little different than his ignoring "drones always use sensor + perception" to try and substitute intuition + perception like a normal driver can (the rules say a driver *may* use sensors in place of his normal senses... not that he can substitute his normal senses for sensors when rigging.... note the direction of the allowance... it allows substituting sensors for intuition, not substituting intuition for sensors).



Also, I don't see a problem... it's only *1* die from a poorly done network bonus. Generally drones are going to have a hard time w/ a rating 2 tacnet w/ modest sensor upgrades. Stop and think how much it costs to outfit drones. Also think about the unaugmented people who walk around w/ an iBall just to get the channels necessary for the tacnet.


Think through the hypothetical implications of this on a one man army (rigger). He can field a tacnet all on his lonesome w/o even involving other players. So now you have a drone tacnet... adding +4 dice to practically everything it does, defense, attack, info-guided attacks, active targetting sensor tests... (why I feel the bonus is rather cheesy and poorly done). That's FAR superior than actually spending the dosh to upgrade the drones pilots and response when he can instead just run a cracked high rating tacnet software.
Ryu
If you have a generic drone, the generic sensor systems count as (sensor rating) channels.

Should you have a more detailed drone build, you can achieve more channels by choosing lots of different small sensors with upgrades - "mounted sensor types". Compare the cost of such a setup to the price of an unmodded drone and decide if you have a problem with that.
Yerameyahu
Indeed, Ryu. There's no good reason for Sensor to be the limit, because Sensor actually means nothing. It's just a shorthand for a generic sensor package, one which contains actual discrete sensors.

Udoshi was clearly talking about an errata'd glitch in the rules, not suggesting that you start with (Sensor) base channels and add. You get channels based on the number of individual relevant *senses*, period. This is the far superior method. The 'channels = Sensor' is, again, a mere shorthand.

If you feel game balance is the problem, address it with limits that make sense. Perhaps channels could be limited by Pilot, or Response, or some other logical quantity. There's nothing wrong with a one man army; it's the whole point of drones, and they're very expensive.
Jaid
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 28 2010, 10:55 PM) *
Yeah, there's no way that taste, touch, and smell count (99.9% of the time), nor Select Sound Filters, usually not Atmospheric, etc., etc. I'm barely convinced that Audio/Vision Enhancement counts as a 'sense channel', even.

I assume the drone Sensor rating is that same for tacnets as it is for sensors: an abstraction, just like Professional Rating. It's to save you time if you're *not* using custom sensors. If you are, you use them as normal (I think this is what Udoshi said?).

sensors and senses only count towards a tacnet *if* they can be applied to the situation at hand, so that rule is already built in (although actually, i suspect knowing what the ambient temperature, wind speed, etc is would make at least *some* difference in your ability to shoot accurately, if only over long distances...)
Yerameyahu
Yes, the rules are already there, but people always start talking about these silly sense channels in these threads. smile.gif It's good to remind.

Honestly, the tacnet bonus should be calculated per-user, per-action, every time. frown.gif Yuck.
Mantis
I can't believe how often people will argue over what amounts to 1 die either way. wink.gif

If your success is really that iffy that it hinges on getting just 1 more die maybe you need to spend some time upgrading your skills and attributes or come up with better tactics. Or both. I went through this same thing with my players and ultimately they realized its silly to be fighting so hard to get 1 more die. It works out that when a Tacnet is active it provides a nice 2 or 3 dice bonus to give you an edge. But they are still capable without it.
KCKitsune
Smell is too a good sense in a tacnet. You can smell the opponent if he is human or critter (and maybe what kind of critter based on scent). If the human is carrying explosives you can smell them. You can smell the ozone in the air from active electronics.

Also the sense of smell is 3d if I'm not mistaken. If that is true then you can use smell to get a directional fix of the target.
Sengir
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 29 2010, 04:33 AM) *
That's one thing I often think about people that have a dozen different visual/auditory enhancements, and how difficult it must be to keep everything separate. Same goes for TacNet. For the most part I'd think joining one would just overload you entirely.

The whole point of tacnet software, as opposed to just looking at your team's sensor feeds, is that the software analyses and correlates all the data it gets and then presents the user a condensed version of all that stuff as an AR overlay.
Karoline
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ May 29 2010, 03:17 AM) *
Smell is too a good sense in a tacnet. You can smell the opponent if he is human or critter (and maybe what kind of critter based on scent). If the human is carrying explosives you can smell them. You can smell the ozone in the air from active electronics.

Also the sense of smell is 3d if I'm not mistaken. If that is true then you can use smell to get a directional fix of the target.


Some of that might be true if playing say perhaps, a dog, as opposed to a metahuman. Metahumans don't have a good enough sense of smell to do any of that, and even the scent analyzer cyberware doesn't provide all of this. It can analyze a scent to tell you human or critter, but it doesn't work in a way to allow you to locate people with it.

The point is that yeah, it can be helpful in very specific situations, but it doesn't really make any sense that knowing your opponent just wet himself will make you accurate.

QUOTE
sensors and senses only count towards a tacnet *if* they can be applied to the situation at hand, so that rule is already built in (although actually, i suspect knowing what the ambient temperature, wind speed, etc is would make at least *some* difference in your ability to shoot accurately, if only over long distances...)

QUOTE
Tacnet bonuses apply to any test a team member makes
that might conceivably benefit from the tactical soft’s analysis,
data-sharing, and suggestions.

There isn't actually any mention in any of the sections about the sensor channels having to be in any way useful to the situation at hand.

The requirements are:
1. Sensor Channels equal to 2x rating
2. Action must be able to benefit from the tacnet's data-sharing, suggestions, and/or analysis abilities
3. Must be in range of at least 1 other person from the tacnet
4. Test must be something that tactical data and suggestion from a network could conceivably benefit from (which lets face it, is basically anything at all that isn't magical/technical)

No where in there is the requirement that all sensor channels provided by each team member must be relevant to the test at hand. And indeed, the fact that only one of the other members of the tacnet needs to be nearby seems to indicate that it doesn't necessarily use all 40 channels to assist with every single test.
Rotbart van Dainig
Actually, there is – on Unwired, p. 126… just after the sentence you quoted.
Sengir
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 29 2010, 05:31 AM) *
A drone can contribute a number of channels of sensory data equal to it's sensor rating.

UW lists three categories of possible senses:
1.) Natural senses via simrig. Uninteresting unless we are talking about biodrones
2.) Cybernetic senses, audio/visual enhancements and the like. Drones obviously can have those, and there is no mention that drones can't contribute them into a tacnet
3.) Sensors. Normally every sensor that is worn, implanted or otherwise carried along counts, drones however just contribute a number of channels equal to their Sensor rating.

Does it say anywhere that these categories are mutally exclusive? Nope, and the example following the rules text is a streetsam combining his cybernetic senses (2.) with a worn sensor (3.). So where are you getting this idea that contributing one category of sensor channels means you can't contribute anything else from?
Karoline
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ May 29 2010, 08:31 AM) *
Actually, there is – on Unwired, p. 126… just after the sentence you quoted.

QUOTE
This is subject to gamemaster interpretation,
but several guidelines can be applied.
?
Yerameyahu
Plus, it is more consistent and makes more sense that way. smile.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 29 2010, 03:47 PM) *
?

Go on…
Falconer
You're ignoring the diction Karoline.

A contributor must contribute a specific number of 'sensor channels'. A drone can contribute a number of 'sensor channels' equal to it's sensor rating.

It has nothing to do w/ how many are available... a well sensored drone is more likely to have relevant channels available to forward but they still can only forward up to that number of them. Quite frankly, since drones are far less of a risk to the operator than a PC in the same situation... I have zero problems w/ them being slightly more limited.

A camera w/ upgrades is one sensor... but it provides multiple 'sensor channels'. You're conflating the two terms.



But stop and think of a believable situation.
You have a pack of dobermen.... All running on pilot... response upgraded to 6. pilot 4, all running the rating 6 tacnet... Each one of those drones due to the tacnet is rolling FAR more dice than a typical player character in terms of attack/defense... even the fuzzy logic... If by your logic, every single drone in the network has the full +4 bonus all the time even when controlled by a single rigger/hacker only using command chair to issue commands and occasionally.

Again, I repeat you're just looking at the difference between a +3 and a +4 bonus. (which like most things in unwired is done poorly and is way to applicable to more or less everything).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 29 2010, 08:07 AM) *
You're ignoring the diction Karoline.

A contributor must contribute a specific number of 'sensor channels'. A drone can contribute a number of 'sensor channels' equal to it's sensor rating.

It has nothing to do w/ how many are available... a well sensored drone is more likely to have relevant channels available to forward but they still can only forward up to that number of them. Quite frankly, since drones are far less of a risk to the operator than a PC in the same situation... I have zero problems w/ them being slightly more limited.

A camera w/ upgrades is one sensor... but it provides multiple 'sensor channels'. You're conflating the two terms.



But stop and think of a believable situation.
You have a pack of dobermen.... All running on pilot... response upgraded to 6. pilot 4, all running the rating 6 tacnet... Each one of those drones due to the tacnet is rolling FAR more dice than a typical player character in terms of attack/defense... even the fuzzy logic... If by your logic, every single drone in the network has the full +4 bonus all the time even when controlled by a single rigger/hacker only using command chair to issue commands and occasionally.

Again, I repeat you're just looking at the difference between a +3 and a +4 bonus. (which like most things in unwired is done poorly and is way to applicable to more or less everything).


Tacnets are limited to Rating 4, which would require 6 individuals to participate in the net...
And yes, it is generally only the difference of a Single Dice Bonus (as you indicated above)... not all that much to fret over in my opinion...

Keep the Faith
Sengir
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 29 2010, 02:07 PM) *
A drone can contribute a number of 'sensor channels' equal to it's sensor rating.

And a metahuman can only contribute a number of natural senses equal to the ammount of natural senses he posseses. Does that mean he can't contribute any other senses? Nope
Falconer
Sengir: where in the rules does it say that... It doesn't. Drones only explicitly list how many sensor channels they are capable of providing.


Remember, a rigger or say the hacker running the whole tacnet mess can subscribe MULTIPLE drones and use them toward HIS required sensor channel contribution. Three sensor rating 4 drones... subscribed to the rigger is plenty enough to provide 12 channels (enough even to add some redundancy in case one of them blows).


The only time this becomes an issue is when people try and turn stand-alone drones into fully self-supporting members of the tacnet and even then, rating 3 is pretty damn good for someone willing to pay the dosh to upgrade the drones sensors to max. I don't see the need to ignore the clear wording just to create a niche exception.
Sengir
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 29 2010, 04:03 PM) *
Drones only explicitly list how many sensor channels they are capable of providing.

I'm not going to write the whole thing again

QUOTE
The only time this becomes an issue is when people try and turn stand-alone drones into fully self-supporting members of the tacnet

Which would be bad/gamebreaking/whatever because...?
Karoline
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ May 29 2010, 09:52 AM) *
Go on…


You're really going to have to point it out, because I've read it several times now, and nowhere does it say "The sensor channels must be in any way relevant to the test."

The closest you get is
QUOTE
the test must be something that tactical data
and suggestions from the network could conceivably aid.

Which says nothing about the sensors, only about the ability of tactical data and suggestion being able to aid the test.

QUOTE (Falconer @ May 29 2010, 10:07 AM) *
You're ignoring the diction Karoline.

A contributor must contribute a specific number of 'sensor channels'. A drone can contribute a number of 'sensor channels' equal to it's sensor rating.


I've not really said anything about drones and their sensors. I would however, like Sengir, point out that there are three different ways to provide sensor channels, and that you can use any or all or any combination of them. Yes, it says "Drones provide a number of channels equal to their sensor rating." but it also says "Low light vision provides a channel." neither one is proceeded by "And no other channels can be added on top of this." so neither is bound as being a limiting factor, both simply provide X number of channels, with the possibility to add more.

How, after all, is using a drone to provide 6 channels for you, and then getting another two from your thermo/low light goggles any different from having the drone provide 6 channels for itself and then give itself the extra two from a thermo/low light camera?
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 29 2010, 05:46 PM) *
Which says nothing about the sensors, only about the ability of tactical data and suggestion being able to aid the test.

And what are those tactical data and suggestions derived from by the TacSoft?
QUOTE (Unwired @ p. 125)
Sensor channels are defined as any type of sensory input that can be transmitted to the tactical network (and that contributes in some way to analyzing the tactical situation).

Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ May 29 2010, 10:05 AM) *
And what are those tactical data and suggestions derived from by the TacSoft?



Exactly... If Taste (for example) cannot provide relevant data in a firefight, well, then, it does not... and that channel is not relevant, so it is ignored... You can get a number of vision/hearing mods, though, to comprise a surprising amount of channels, so it is generally not going to come down to things like taste and smell, or barometric pressure, or whatever...

Keep the Faith
Yerameyahu
I'm not interested in playing a Rules-As-Badly-Written game. smile.gif In my game, only relevant sense channels will ever count, even if it's decided that RAW is 'any random useless senses always count'. *Both* restrictions should apply: senses must be relevant, AND tacnet AROs must be relevant.

Out of curiosity, is there a rules basis for Audio/Video Enhancement counting as separate channels? It seems like only actual senses count: thermo, low-light, infra/ultrasound if you had those, radar, etc., but 'Enhancement' is not a sense in that way.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 29 2010, 10:11 AM) *
I'm not interested in playing a Rules-As-Badly-Written game. smile.gif In my game, only relevant sense channels will ever count, even if it's decided that RAW is 'any random useless senses always count'. *Both* restrictions should apply: senses must be relevant, AND tacnet AROs must be relevant.



Indeed... which is why limiting Drones to their Sensor Rating for Channels works well... so Drones only can get up to a +3... big deal... it has worked well in our games...

Keep the Faith
Rotbart van Dainig
The real isse is that the best TacSoft you can buy simply can't run on the same inputs than the cheaper one.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ May 29 2010, 10:16 AM) *
The real isse is that the best TacSoft you can buy simply can't run on the same inputs than the cheaper one.


Not sure what you mean here...

At the very least, the same inputs are being used in both sets of circumstances, it is just that the higher rated Taxnets need additional protocols that the lower rated Tacnets cannot support (at least simultaneously)...

Keep the Faith
Yerameyahu
If the difference between +3 and +4 doesn't matter, then there's no reason to artificially limit drones. smile.gif BAM, turnabout. biggrin.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 29 2010, 10:32 AM) *
If the difference between +3 and +4 doesn't matter, then there's no reason to artificially limit drones. smile.gif BAM, turnabout. biggrin.gif


It is comments like that that continuously lead to power creep... Limits are acceptable, why do you rail against them with comments like the one above? cyber.gif

At that point, why impose limits at all?

Keep the Faith
LurkerOutThere
Doesn't everyone run diceless shadowrun?
Draco18s
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 29 2010, 11:46 AM) *
Doesn't everyone run diceless shadowrun?


"Rock, paper, scissors, go!"
Falconer
I'm mostly against power creep as there's already a lot of it in the game. And one of the biggest limitations on tacnets is having a large enough team. So if people use individual drones to fill out the network, then I have nothing against the network being more limited than it otherwise would be.


And I still hold by my stance... the book says, a drone can provide a number of 'sensor channels'. (and by extension a rigger could provide all his sensor channels to a rating 4 tacnet by contributing 6 sensors from each of 2 subscribed drones!). You MUST provide sensor channels in excess of that capability it doesn't matter if the camera has multiple vision mods, it's not a single sensor channel... each enhancement is it's own sensor channel on top of that.

The mods themselves are very large and relevant... (example someone w/ a respectable reaction of 4, doubles his dice pool against attacks... so it's not an insignificant bonus).
Yerameyahu
I didn't say 'no limits'. I said, given the existing limits, there's no reason for an *artificial* and not particularly logical limit on drones.

I was also making the point that you can't say 'don't argue, it's only +3 vs. +4', because that point works both ways.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 29 2010, 12:09 PM) *
I didn't say 'no limits'. I said, given the existing limits, there's no reason for an *artificial* and not particularly logical limit on drones.

I was also making the point that you can't say 'don't argue, it's only +3 vs. +4', because that point works both ways.


Sure, the Argument does work both ways... but one way leads to power creep... why not +5? We can obviously get Sensor channels to 10, so why not upgrade the Tacnet to a Rating 5? There has got to be work going on to allow that in Corporate R&D... Which is my point...

I see no issue with limiting Drones to a Rating 3 Tacnet... that is extrememly respectable in my opinion, and see no real reason why we should make allowances for a Tacnet 4 for Drones... it is just not needed in my opinion... Can you do it... Yes, Sure, by either combining Sensor Rating with additional independant Channels or by Adding additional Drones for satisfying the requirements for a Channel Limit. I just don't see it as really all that necessary...

The easiest solution is to just limit Tactical Networks for Drones to their inherent Channel Limit based on their Sensor Rating... Want a better Sensor Rating? Upgrade your Sensors...

Keep the Faith
Ascalaphus
I think the TacNet rules are messy because you have to keep track of oh-so-many things, like number of participants, number of channels in each participant, relevance and so forth. I'm going to use the following in my game:

- To be a Participant to a TacNet, you need some minimum input channels: Visual (1), Depth Perception (either a second camera, radar, a second eye for humans, laser range finder, whatever), Audio and Smartlink.

- To benefit from a TacNet, you must also qualify to be a Participant.

- The bonus is (number of locally present Participants -2) and no more than the Rating of the TacSoft.

- Any other interesting sensory information can be shared (odds and ends sensors, biomonitors, ammo count, sensor software) and group communication is enhanced.


My reasoning is that roughly the same sensors that a drone needs to be aware of its environment should also suffice for a TacNet. For power balance reasons, you could put a brake on how high TacNet ratings can go, but that's no reason to create a large administrative workload for players/GMs.
Sengir
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 29 2010, 05:07 PM) *
the book says, a drone can provide a number of 'sensor channels'.

Since you still didn't provide a quote saying those three categories are mutally exclusive, I guess there is none?

QUOTE
(and by extension a rigger could provide all his sensor channels to a rating 4 tacnet by contributing 6 sensors from each of 2 subscribed drones!).

A drone hardly qualifies as "worn, carried, or mounted sensor system[s]". A Fly-Spy buzzing around the rigger's head would be close enough in my book, though.


PS: And I think tacnets are a great addition to the game. Not because they provide the umpteenth combat modifier, but because the networking of sensory input solves the age-old problem of character knowledge vs. player knowledge
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