Which is why Spirits under Force 4 do not spend Edge to resist Summoning in our games... And it is not arbitrary... Spirits spend Edge when they Spend Edge... nothing arbitrary at all when it is expressly allowed, and is stated before any games begin... And there is never enough Drain Dice Pools... You will eventually take drain... Our mage has 16 DP for Drain, and yet, when he was smacked with 20 Drain form a Spirit, he did not soak it all... the odds will eventually catch up to you... And Characters can indeed bypass the Edge Resistance if they work at placating the spirits... I mentioned that before... It takes roleplaying to do that though... Just because you think that your tradition uses spirits as slaves does not mean that the Spirits think that it is okay... which is probably where you and I differ in our opinions.

As for your analogy of the cop in the street... Yes, there will be consequences, some you can anticipate and some that you probably cannot. By the same token, Summoning Spirits of Force 4+ has known consequences... no difference there... There are worse consequences than having a spirit spend Edge to resist Summoning.

I understand you don't agree with me, but what I do is not Wrong... it is just not what you do... we can both be right about this.

@Tagz... Interesting SOlution... sounds very workable indeed...

Keep the Faith

Sorry, shouldn't have used the term "material link" - my bad. The point was that by repeated contact/use/exposure to a particular item a person's aura sort of encoroporates the items aura so that it doesn't act as a barrier. At least that is what I read the description posted earlier to mean. Going by that description, the person who has lived in a house for many years is aura-ly linked to the house so it doesn't count as cover, but as an extention of the person's aura so that a spell can be cast at the person through the aura of the house. Something I definately don't think should be able to happen. (In fact, this is getting very similar to the way Thread Magic works in Earthdawn. If you are thinking of eventually going this route with the magic in SR, then I guess the sympatico aura-linking could work for you.)

I prefer the idea touched on (Going back the the post about a guy pummeling me in security armor.) that it is the idea of what armor is - or isn't, you could say (as opposed to a wall or car). That the when you see a guy in armor you are thinking to yourself: "I am seeing the guy, he just happens to be wearing armor that covers him completely" vs. "he ducked behind that wall and I can't see him now." I like that better than the aura extends up to a couple of inches from the persons body. With that, you just make your covering "puffy" (and load it with a mini-air conditioner or heater, depending upon if it is summer or winter ) so that it covers your aura. By giving it a tangible, scientific explaination, you always give it a way to be countered/handled with a little reasoning, which is why:

To me magic is not a science (even though they try to make it one in SR), so how it works should be non-scientific. So, the idea/belief of things matters, as opposed to the actuality of things. (Like the difference between not seeing a person behind a wall and one in full clothing/armor.) Now, you are saying to yourself: "with this, there is nothing that cannot be discounted." And, to a degree, you are right, but think about this: How easy is it to get yourself to actually believe that the brick wall between you and the guard isn't there? I would imagine that it would be very, very hard, to the point of being impossible and, likely, only the insane would/could bypass our normal reasoning of things. And that comes with its own set of problems, doesn't it?

Ooops, also: 12,000 nuyen is pretty expensive (and that doesn't add in all the extras that are likely to be wanted/needed). If the typical run grosses around 5,000 per character, out of which comes any re-equiping, medical bills, lifestyle upkeep, etc.. then it would likely take the average runner 4-5 runs to save up enough to get the armor (barring any extremes either way).

Corps are about the bottom line. If it doesn't make the best fiscal sense then they aren't going to do it - bulk rate or no bulk rate. The fact that most of their security forces won't have a single spell cast at them their entire career means that they won't equip everyone with full-body security armor. Now those high-security & sensitive areas, and the SWAT of their forces, that's another matter.

What about a simple, cheap body *suit*? Where's the line between material that blocks magic and material that doesn't?

Let's say we go with the rule that you don't see the person in the full-body clothing... what is the poor mage to do?!? Hey! I know. He can pull his manhunter and plug them full of holes!

The point being, that mages have multiple options already, perhaps some of the options shouldn't be so easy that they end up being the only options.

But, as I posted above, I like the idea of magic magic, where the spellcaster's concept of the target is important too. So the person in a burka is still able to be cast upon because the magician's belief/concept is that they are seeing the person. (Perhaps that is how material linking works; by making the magician believe they are "seeing" a part of the person so they can cast a spell on them. Just a thought.)

Personal aside: I will put together multiple ideas/concepts on how to do something (rules-wise), some of which will be contradictory, until I come up with the one I like the best. Of course, you guys can (and have) come up with good house rules that I will use.

Disregard. Replied before reading full post.

np. happens.

I'm just saying, it's crazy to say any worn clothing/armor blocks spellcasting. If it's a mecha, then that's a vehicle and it's aceptable.

I getcha yera. And I like that, but not for the reason of "aura spillover."

I really like the perception idea, it fits nicely to allow all sorts of hijinx. So, would it be safe for me to surmise that an aura might "glow" but it does not give off light per se, it would not have the properties of light and so someone would not be able to say a aura is approaching from behind that corner because of the radius of aura.

Heh, now I am also imagining a hall filled with armor, sorta like medieval armor on display, and as the person who perceives auras walks down the hall, suddenly one of the suits of armor twitches or coughs, his perception becoming that that isn't just a inanimate object but a person and aura suddenly shows through.

When the clothes become an actual vehicle that fully encloses you, you have reached that line... otherwise, you are targetable by magic...

But, of course, I believe that we are in agreement on this...

Keep the Faith

Like I said before, that isn't a game concept. I dated a girl just after I dropped out of college who was into holistic medicine, Mother Earth, playing Wicca, all of that. She's the one that taught me all about aura cleansing and reading. If your calm, your aura is smooth and only extends just shy of an inch past your skin. If you're highly agitated, angry, scared, or otherwise emotion; your aura will "flare" out up to around 6 inches. If you're close to someone when your aura is that active, your mood can bleed over into theirs and influence them.

Apparently, my aura is nothing but red and black (anger, cynicism, and bad thoughts), which is why she dumped me. She was very well-endowed, which is why I didn't dump her first...friggin' hate hippies, always have.

Oddly enough... MY Wiccan Wife is well endowed as well... Is that a trend?

Keep the Faith

I won't respond beyond this to avoid threadjacking, but I think it's the same way that gamer males (and comic geeks and computer nerds etc.) tend to be over/underweight. Shall we say "fluffy" women tend to want something to fulfill their lives since their social lives are lacking, so they end up with a Womyn Power sort of thing like Wicca. Now when I say that Stacy was into Wicca...it's the same way other teens/early 20-something girls are into Twilight. She read a book by someone with a name like Phoenixwolf Ravenmoon and started burning stinky incense...I believe Joss Whedon phrased it perfectly when he said "a bunch of Blessed wanna-Bes".

Ahhhh... Gotcha...
Well, My Wife is definitely a Wiccan by tradition as well as belief (for at least the last 15 years or so, maybe even more)... She takes it very seriously indeed...

Keep the Faith