With a factory that is just magically there somehow, yes. Again, this is not thought through. Your snarkyness only makes you seem like an asshole to boot, so grab some manners or shut it, kid.


... which is why it won't be coming from a corp. Of course, governments in SR aren'T interested in massive space settlement either, so ... it just won't be happening then.


Space topics seem to attract that sort magically. Some frustrated rocket science nerds who despair about reality not being rocket science wonderland, I guess. Venting frustration that someone disagrees when they want to put it into SR. Of course, the OP who actually wants to write this supplement doesn't want that either, but they conveniently ignore this and hope it'll go away or something.

Nope, Kid. This started it:

And it came from you.


China does not exist anymore in SR.


High child mortality, and high mortality rate in general - their fertile time is some 15 years. Elves would flood the world far more effectively, with a 12 month gestation period and a fertile time of around 350 years - and semi frequent twin births. But snce elves don't seem to be pregnant their whole life (nor are orcs), this apparently evens out.

Also, it is 2 to 4, not 8, to my knowledge. I don't really know where you got that from either.


There we go again ...

Just because it's Hermit doesn't mean you still shouldn't be nice.

Something about this just doesn't feel right, though. If we look at a space elevator, we see that this is a 22,000 mile journey to get to GEO. Twenty two thousand. At what point does gravity stop being an issue? We know when magic will stop being effective - approximately 100 klicks up. Will the magic run out before gravity does?

And sure, I could see a team of mages wanting to do this kind of work - I'm just not sure that the corp would want them there. I feel like there's something huge here that I'm missing.

It will. Will the magic run out before the momentum of the levitate spell dissipades? Can't say, gut reaction would be yes, though, since the object is not in an orbit, but geostationary.

I apologize for not emphasizing the [bold]"first" [/bold] in my post, but that is what I was focusing on. It only takes one or two big projects to get things started and the infrastructure will develop. Once the infrastructure starts popping up it will become cheaper for follow on projects. This is not a "quick buck" view, but then again some of the corps will take the long view and move into space.

Hell, even if one corp starts a big interplanetary ship (notice I did not say interstellar), and then goes under, all those components and reasources would still get jumpstarted.

It only takes 2-3 Japanese billionaires to get the ball rolling.

Space is an incredibly hostile and expesive environment to move through, but literally it will end up being the only direction to expand into.

I disagree. If only because, if that were true, it would already have happened.

Yes, a few big colonies would start an infrastructure. But since there is neither need for these colonies nor for any space mining, I really cannot see why anyone would want to be first. There's no gain in this for the one being first.


Apparently, no, that didn't do the trick, since after HArris-3M went down, nobody bothered to pick up where they left. Their stuff was being maintained and research stations were done, a manned mars mission happened, but that didn't trigger a gold rush or anything.


In some 300 years in-game maybe. Not in a relevant timeframe though.

If I'm the kid then what should I call you, geezer, senile..? And oh, does this look familiar?



Because that's your post that was equal parts openly hostile and completely irrelevant. You were wrong about the gaiasphere, brought up spirits who live on a mountain on another continent for no reason and then insinuated that I thought the Mage would work for free when the entire point of my post was outlining how cost effective it would be.

Grow up.



GEO is for a very specific purpose, so that the satellite is stationary relative to a terrestrial area. A Low Earth Orbit is perfectly fine for most applications (and desirable for many, like spying, where being closer to the ground helps) and LEOs start at 100 miles above the surface.

But you're right, you won't be able to Levitate into a LEO orbit but by that point a very small rocket (or a more exotic option to not cut into payload, ground based laser) would easily do the rest. Alternatively I could see a "catching" spacecraft dangling a magnetic tether for 50 miles too, space elevator on the cheap eh You'd still need a tech component to finish (or very powerful spells, or a cargo of exotic plants according to the fluff in SM) but the magic would cut a huge chunk of the work out.

So not agreeing with you (and you not understanding the part about spirits maybe not being thrilled to be sent into a mana warp) is the same as you calling me an idiot? Eh, right. Teenagers with issues.

Hitler.

There, this thread is officially over according to Godwin's Law. We can stop flaming each other and move to a new thread.

Well yes, it is. GEO is where the elevator needs to be due to the counterweight to keep the line taut - you actually need 38,000 miles of cable.

Kicker here with an elevator is that a rocket isn't required - the laser for power transmission, perhaps. Current technology has a capability of 2m/s climb rate on the cable, which is the point of the elevator, and we're looking at about a 3 month travel to get materials into GEO. I figure the manufacturing station would be there. But the cost! Compared to $11k per kilo (or pound, I forget which), you're looking at $100 per kilo for the elevator.

And if you use more than one laser source, or even integrate propulsion of some kind into the capsules, you can lift more than one at a time, though this would make a more complicated infrastructure on the cable necessary.

Or use some sort of wheel or track coated with gecko stuff. If you construct a propulsion system that grips around the cable, the vehicle falling off will not be an issue, too. Of course, the grip of the gecko stuff isn't endlessly strong, but it probably can be enhanced, or you use tracks to cover more surface. With regular junctions (not sure if that is the right word, I am thinking of splitting another cble off the cable so two vehicles can pass each other by), you could also have more than one vehicle at a time active.

-- I considered, and largely rejected, the idea of lifting stuff via magic since the problem really is, as has been noted, how slow it is. Sure you could drop it off at your manasphere limit but then it's just going to instantly fall back down as it hasn't achieved orbital velocity (that is, it's moving so fast that even though it's falling down it can't hit the ground). It could be useful to lift the package up to take advantage of the increased rocket efficiency though, or lift an ASAT laser drone/reconnaissance platform up for a shot

-- The Movement power, on the other hand, assuming it adds "real" velocity can GREATLY reduce the delta-V needed to reach orbit. The question is whether that extra speed is "real" once you hit a mana void though.

At least in SR3, movement could not accelerate beyond a certain velocity to my knowledge, so you could not use it on an already fast object.

-- Movement got a MASSIVE nerf in SR4A compared to SR4, but it's still insanely useful if the speed increase is "real" (I keep putting that in quotes because it could be a pseudovelocity, this is magic we're talking about). I'll assume it's real for right now because it's cooler that way, and gives magical aerospace research something to work with

hi hi

No matter how you slice it, the movement power will make it easier to lift objects into orbit. If an object can be simply lifted straight up, when it is released, it will have a greater velocity due to the rotation of the earth and centripetal force and all that. If the object magically loses that added momentum when the spell is removed, then you could perform an atmospheric skip as force is applied to it by the air that is suddenly moving very rapidly at it.

Corollary: Why aren't fire spirits used to power electrical generators?

Because a) this would break the setting and b) spirits hate this, rebel and blow shit up, or succumb to a technological environment and become toxic (meta reasons, if you will). Of course, you do not want to be around a toxic fire spirit.

Fusion generators have fresh water as a byproduct?

No, worse, hydrogen. Add oxygen from the air and things go boom.

Apparently the SR ones make water.
Although most of them seem to have exploded, which would make perfect sense.

Maybe ...
...
... they run the hydrogen through a fuel cell and use it for additional electricity that then powers, I dunno, something for the plant? And use the water for cooling then? And then it vaporises, and the surrounding lands see rain again, and the Sahara returns to being a lush grassland ...?

They really said water? Jeebus.

Mhm. In the Sixth World Almanac.

Oh. The book where Deus' existence is taught in schools that have shadowland account for student research purposes.

Yeah. Uhm.

It could have been grand. Why couldn't it.

Now I can sort of see some professors being maverick (and tenured) enough to be able to teach a class like that. But yes, that is the last we will say on that matter.

-- Ack they really did reference that inane CFS sourcebook drivel.



-- This is ever-after ignored in Shadowrun canon. So whatever it was claimed to be, it's not cold fusion. On April 10, 20128 these mysterious cold fusion reactors are damaged and "declared off limis." Pretty suspicious!