Thats your opinion, and its not supported within the rules. It doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, because its a fictional game mechanic. You're suggesting that clustered devices magically lose functionality, and that is something that clustering does not do.

I mean, if you can support your arguement within the rules, please do so, but you've pretty much admitted the rules don't say what you're putting in their mouth.

My way is better, because it violates no rules(clustering, the base item, mods, matrix stats, etc. not just the cluster clustering ruleset alone), and is pretty simple. If you cluster a datajack and a commlink, well....
Now you have a datajack that is also clustered. No more, and no less.

I mean, seriously, you're arguing that if you cluster commlinks they no longer work as commlinks. Good job. Thats not how it works.

I think I made it very clear, repeatedly, that I wasn't saying RAW said something. Like, *in* the part you quoted. The rules don't say, either, that you can cluster your cyberware freely into a supernode. They are inconveniently silent, so we have to guess. Your guess is overpowered; my guess is better.

Obviously, it does matter what makes sense. You were arguing from a 'makes sense' perspective yourself.

No, I said nothing at all about commlinks. I spoke solely, explicitly, about peripheral nodes. In addition, clustering *creates* a node; a clustered commlink that lost that function—even if I had said this—would only become a commlink again. You'd never notice the difference. A cyberarm, on the other hand…

Um, dude? Commlinks *are* nodes when active.

Hardly. I don't see how you can call clustering overpowered without understanding how it actually works. I am arguing from a rules perspective, not 'guessing', becuase I've actually read the rules, and understand how they fit into the rest of the matrix.


Clustering does this:
takes two or more nods
It takes a Log+Computer(2) test and admin on each device.
Once clustered, its treated as a single node with Firewall and System equal to the lowest respective rating of all nodes. (note it is a node, not a peripheral node)
Response is the average of the nodes response ratings
Processor limit is the sum of one half each nodes processor limit.(each node adds half theirs to the total.)
Persona limit is the total across all devices.
All accounts across all nodes are valid for the cluster.

What Clustering does -not- do is change any other aspect of rules.
It does not change device ratings rules.
It does not change the hardware.
It does not remove any rules text from applicable cyberware.
It does not magically turn a cyberarm into a useless piece of shit.
it just shuffles the stats around slightly.

To sum; Your way is not better. Its ignoring every other book that tells you how this stuff works because, as you said, the grey are doesn't tell you to. Clustering doesn't invalidate the capabilities of the stuff you're clustering.

Its hardly overpowered at all. Clustering, frankly, gimps your setup in most cases. Building a rating 6 commlink is easy. Building a rating 6 cyberware cluster requires -deltaware- across the board. You might as well argue that cyborgs or deltaware is overpowered, because they're expensive. To be honest, your problem feels like its more more with the poorly worded Device Ratings and Node Types than with clustering.

If it's not overpowered, why would you want to do it?

Yes, you have to start with good pieces to get something really great out of clustering, but you can always get *something* for totally free. By your interpretation, you never lose anything, and you specifically said that some cheap betaware datajacks would give you a rating 5 commlink with a huge processor limit. That was your stated purpose. Let's look at the videotape:
So you claimed that you could turn your cyber into rating *6* gear and create (that's right!) a supernode.

Cain, that's my point. If you start with a (standard) node, and end up with a (standard) node, you didn't lose anything. Clustering is only relevant for peripheral nodes, because they change.

Not that any of this has anything to do with "TM Riggers", from the very first mention of cyberware.

Quick question on another TM related thing: Logging off and rebooting. A player tonight had to get out of a system that had some IC on it and wanted to get out without passing by them again. She was in a Security account if that makes a difference. In any case, it says logging out is a simple action and can just be done, but then there is rebooting which takes you all the way to your personal node, yet for Technomancer takes hours.

I ran it that she had to get past the IC again and log off where the system VR allowed logoffs, but I wondered if that was correct. And why a Technomancer would want to reboot. To get out of Resonance realms?

Reboot, IIRC, resets your Condition Monitor? I dunno, I rarely glance at TMs.

Could you give the reference for this hours timeframe? I know if the TM gets dumped and goes unconscious it takes hours, but that is because of the recovery of stun and waking up.

Otherwise from Unwired, "If at any time the technomancer falls unconscious, either in
the Matrix or in the meat world, the living persona shuts down
just as if someone had switched a commlink. The technomancer
will have to reboot per normal rules."

And the normal rules are combat turns in scale.

Page 221, SR4 core:
"Rebooting is more complicated for Technomancers, as they cannot simply shut their brains off." I don't want to put the full text, but it ends in an extended logic+willpower test (10, 1 hour).

Bah! Wimpy way of doing it! "Hunter S. Thompson Off Switch" works just fine!

Were they rebooting the server they were at, or rebooting themselves?

Themselves. It mentions at the end that their matrix attributes are restored, but I thought that stun damage would heal normally for them since they do not have Matrix boxes.

Ah, I think that text is no longer in SR4A. I can't find it.

However it isn't listed in SR$A Changes Document as a change either.

Yeah, I'm referencing the normal SR4. I'll just put the full text, in that case:

"Rebooting is more complicated for Technomancers, as they cannot simply shut their brains off. In order to reboot, a Technomancer must sever his Matrix connection completely and make an Extended Logic + Willpower test (10, Hour) while fully resting (no physical, draining, or Matrix activity). After this recovery period has passed, the Technomancer may reconnect to the Matrix with his living persona's attributes fully restored."

They may have just changed it to a normal System+Response test if you can't find it.

Quite frankly, the cluster node rules are part of what's broken in Unwired. I had zero problems w/ clustering commlinks (which are basically everymans personal portable computer + communicator). But the idea of clustering peripheral nodes was silly and poorly done.

Some things to pull on people who insist on pulling this stunt. Security is only as good as the weakest link... oh you integrated nodes which don't have user level access and only admin level access (peripheral nodes, p48) your cluster only has admin level accounts... w/ no penalty to hacking them.

Quite frankly, I agree, if you cluster peripherals, you disable their functionality. The REASON their system exceeds response is that they're single purpose devices OPTOMIZED for that role... For someone trying to build a nexus on the fly out of spare bits and pieces in the need of the moment great. But as written far too abusable as is most of Unwired.

It's also off-topic.

I want to hear more about technomancers.

If you read further on the following pages after that you will see what you shouldve had the technomancer do: Jack out.


Page 220 Sr4:



This would seem to me that its much like lowering signal etc. rather than a hard reboot.

Er, I read that part. Which was why I wondered what use Rebooting was to a TM, not which of the two was better.

I think its more the fact that you only need to reboot if they managed to crash you or you were effectively dumpshocked right?

A good reason to not Jack out would be the dumpshock that would be suffered. Instead of the free action of jacking out, take the simple action of logging off.
I can't think of a good reason to reboot instead of logging off if the intent is only getting out.
But a good reason for rebooting as a technomancer would be a brand spanking new accessID with no roll for spoofing needed.
Though by how I read it in unwired (PG. 135 CONNECTING) they really just need to turn off then turn on their wireless to accomplish this, not perform a full reboot.

I can't find that "technomancers rebooting takes hours" in SR4A - does anyone know if that got removed or if I'm just missing it?

When I first brought it up from SR4, someone else mentioned that they couldn't find it. So, it was probably removed.