Yes, then their only option is to ask nicely.
The corp will tell them to go to hell, and that'll be the end of that.
Or
The Corp will check with their "special procurement" division and find out if this person or persons are known, and what their value rating is. If said individuals are not known, or are known but have a bad value rating, they might decide to hand over info, or not. Depending on said Corps relationship with Lone Star.
Remember Extra Territoriality ends at the gate. If Toys'n'Stuff wants to be able to chase a runner team that stole their prototype assassination toy, they need good relations with LoneStar. Tell Lone Star to go jump in a lake, and their reaction times might get disturbingly slow. Do it often enough, and they might start harrassing your security teams when they're on Lone Star controlled turf.
I would be very tempted to roll an 'edge' test for the team, when they do a run.
Take the average edge score for the team, and roll that.
Every Hit buys off a point of possible trouble.
A Glitch means that something goes well for the 'detectives'
A crit Glitch and Ye-awww
Give bonus dice based on how thorough and detailed their plans were.
Allow players to chose to spend edge on the roll, to bolster it.
Maybe do a basic "investigation roll" to see how effective any investigation is. The dicepool being modified by who was hit, and the resources available. How big was the body count. Where was the body count, how politically damaging was the run, etc.
Full Version: Shenanigans, "High Society" and SIN
QUOTE (sabs @ Jul 22 2010, 04:26 PM) 
Or if that doesn't work, they go back and get a court order for the information.
Now the proplem with that is when they have to go trought that 4,5 or more times and the prep from the last place says "We dont keep that old recordings"
And it gets even harder if the group breaks up at second or third place their ducking trough.
Or make sure that one of those properties is owned by Ares who will tell lone star to go fuck themself.
Of course they'd have reason to delete or secret it away: that is a potential hook to get a team of runners to do some work against the competition, MegaToys.
Shadowrunners are a known quantity in the setting, so it isn't entirely unrealistic for people to use information like that to try to get a free or cheap job out of runners, or even to just introduce themselves.
It's like the Johnson joke: what happens to a man who is actually named Johnson? Every time he introduces himself as Mr. Johnson, a newbie runner walks up and quietly asks what the pay is. Eventually, Alex Johnson decides to give a number that he can afford for something he needs done.
Shadowrunners are a known quantity in the setting, so it isn't entirely unrealistic for people to use information like that to try to get a free or cheap job out of runners, or even to just introduce themselves.
It's like the Johnson joke: what happens to a man who is actually named Johnson? Every time he introduces himself as Mr. Johnson, a newbie runner walks up and quietly asks what the pay is. Eventually, Alex Johnson decides to give a number that he can afford for something he needs done.
QUOTE (sabs @ Jul 21 2010, 11:19 PM)
except you're not an Agent, or a set of agents running on a dedicated nexus.
I doubt anyone is comparing Wuxing SiN information with UCAS with CAS with Ares SiN information.
I doubt many people have access to all that stuff. (Though i bet some deep dark black agencies come close.)
But certainly inside Seattle? Lone Star, Seattle Metro Government, etc.
If you do something illegal on your fake Wuxing SiN and it gets recorded, then certainly someone is going to do some information requests to Wuxing Security and Human Resources. How much they get will depend on politics, personal relationships between Lone Star and Wuxing security officers, etc. It's not a guarantee, but the possibility is there.
Hey, You're more than welcome to run a low consequences Pink Mohawk game. But for those of us who like a more cuthtroat realistic game. It's fun to think about all the implications of the technology that exists in Shadowrun.
I doubt anyone is comparing Wuxing SiN information with UCAS with CAS with Ares SiN information.
I doubt many people have access to all that stuff. (Though i bet some deep dark black agencies come close.)
But certainly inside Seattle? Lone Star, Seattle Metro Government, etc.
If you do something illegal on your fake Wuxing SiN and it gets recorded, then certainly someone is going to do some information requests to Wuxing Security and Human Resources. How much they get will depend on politics, personal relationships between Lone Star and Wuxing security officers, etc. It's not a guarantee, but the possibility is there.
Hey, You're more than welcome to run a low consequences Pink Mohawk game. But for those of us who like a more cuthtroat realistic game. It's fun to think about all the implications of the technology that exists in Shadowrun.
I posit all the date is there. I will also posit that it is potentially accessible.
Are you also arguing that the actual enforcement is also automated and is an infinitely available resource?
The mere existence and potential availability of data does not enforcement make.
I notice you posted a nice scenario about how the LEOs can get at all the data. But that it took time, going back and forth, and required a LEO in the first place.
I am not arguing that the data is not there, nor that it cannot be accessed. I am merely pointing out the single case of one person being capable of tracking down and identifying a shadowrunner based on captured information does not lead to all shadowrunners being tracked down in all cases.
It is the tracking down and identifying that takes effort regardless of whether or not the information is available.
You cannot take one single data point in a complex and dynamic model and expect to develop valid results.
I agree with you DireRadiant.
But in that example, I was talking about corrolating Biometrics data to multiple SiNs.
Example:
Igor has 3 fake SiN's, 0 real ones.
SiN 1: Wuxing International Citizen Rating 4
SiN 2: Seattle Metroplex Citizen: Rating 6
SiN 3: Ares Corp Citizen: Rating 3.
In that case, unless he's caught with all 3 SiN's activated on him at the same time, noone will link them together.
But if SiN 3 is instead: Seattle Metroplex Citizen: Rating 4
The Metroplex servers that store SiN information do have agents who go through and do data comparisons.
Will they flag both of those SiN's? Certainly as time progresses the chances go up. If there's 'questionable' activity on one of those SiN's then the likelihood goes up, as the SiN with the illegal activity gets flagged as priority for duplicates, and known aliases and such.
You could argue that SiN's like that degrade, or have a lifespan. Maybe something like Rating Years, or Rating/2 Years. Depending how you're feeling. Or perhaps the Rating of your Fake SiN degrades by 1 every X amount of time. What ever X is.
But in that example, I was talking about corrolating Biometrics data to multiple SiNs.
Example:
Igor has 3 fake SiN's, 0 real ones.
SiN 1: Wuxing International Citizen Rating 4
SiN 2: Seattle Metroplex Citizen: Rating 6
SiN 3: Ares Corp Citizen: Rating 3.
In that case, unless he's caught with all 3 SiN's activated on him at the same time, noone will link them together.
But if SiN 3 is instead: Seattle Metroplex Citizen: Rating 4
The Metroplex servers that store SiN information do have agents who go through and do data comparisons.
Will they flag both of those SiN's? Certainly as time progresses the chances go up. If there's 'questionable' activity on one of those SiN's then the likelihood goes up, as the SiN with the illegal activity gets flagged as priority for duplicates, and known aliases and such.
You could argue that SiN's like that degrade, or have a lifespan. Maybe something like Rating Years, or Rating/2 Years. Depending how you're feeling. Or perhaps the Rating of your Fake SiN degrades by 1 every X amount of time. What ever X is.
QUOTE (Mäx @ Jul 22 2010, 02:37 PM)
Now the proplem with that is when they have to go trought that 4,5 or more times and the prep from the last place says "We dont keep that old recordings"
And it gets even harder if the group breaks up at second or third place their ducking trough.
Or make sure that one of those properties is owned by Ares who will tell lone star to go fuck themself.
And it gets even harder if the group breaks up at second or third place their ducking trough.
Or make sure that one of those properties is owned by Ares who will tell lone star to go fuck themself.
That's not a problem,
That's smart ShadowRunners.
And, lets be honest Lone Star will go through that trouble, depending on the priority of the case.
If your runners killed 10 Lone Star patrol officers during their getaway, that's WAY more heat, than if they knocked out and embarrassed some Megatoys security guys.
If from Lone Stars perspective all your runners did was speed and drive recklessly? They'll probably stop at the first stop, shrug. It's unlikely that MCT is going to file a complaint about their Scientist being abducted, especially since said scientist was abducted by them in the first place 3 years ago.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Jul 22 2010, 09:29 AM)
Unless Toys 'n Stuff has extraterritoriality. Then the 'Star is kinda boned.
Or if Toys 'n Stuff is a relation to say, Ares Arms.
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 22 2010, 05:59 PM)
Or if Toys 'n Stuff is a relation to say, Ares Arms.
If it's called Toys 'n Stuff in my games, you better damn well believe they're affiliated with Ares Arms.
i recall a little something from a movie about a identity thief. At the end, once the person have been caught, there are a couple of guards in the jail talking about him.
guard 1: "who is that?"
guard 2: "who knows, he had over a dozen different ids on him when they brought him in."
guard 1: "who is that?"
guard 2: "who knows, he had over a dozen different ids on him when they brought him in."
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