I wouldn't allow neither Gelpacks nor PPP with Form Fitting Armor 'cause than it wouldn't be Form Fitting anymore and loose its special "1/2 Encumberance only Bonus"
Gelpacks and PPP works good with normal Armor though

HokaHey
Medicineman

Armor stacking and sticknshock seem to be the two most broken/abused parts of SR at the moment.

While it might not be RAW, the rule of thumb I would use for armor, is that if you can get more armor by stacking than by wearing full military combat armor then you just broke the system.

Congratulations! A dragon appears and eats your character. Go create a new one and this time don't min/max the rules. Perhaps a little harsh, but as a GM it saves having to equip all the bad guys with non-conductive FFBA and ARs loaded with SnS.

Just remember that if it looks like cheese and smells like cheese, it probably is. And your GM can smell it too.

Of course, if as a player, your GM is using these kinds of cheese tactics against you then load for bear. Or find a better GM.

Is this ever even possible? Military armor lets you go to Bod x 3 before encumbrance kicks in. Only time FFBA + other stuff would provide you better armor than military armor is if you have a body of... 1? 2 would let you get to 7 vs 6, but at 3+ bod you're always better off with the military armor.

It is not that bad.

The millspec heavy armor with its helmet is 18/16.

With available armor at chargen, you can only go up to 17/14 (armored jacket 8/6, full body FFBA 6/2, PPP 2/4, helmet 1/2). It takes a full body or SWAT suit to get up to 21/18 and break the system.

BUT...

A millspec armor with the right enhancements can be worn with Body 4 (Body *3 for encumbrance, 3 levels of Mobility upgrade). The chargen setup counts as 14/13 for encumbrance, so it requires a Body of 7. The SWAT setup requires Body 9. High BOD characters (from 6) do not need the mobility upgrade, so they can fit more toys in their millspec armor. I don't really see a problem with that. Since trolls are heavily toned down by SR4, it will not break the game to let them stack high armor.

Sure you can. Wear it under a snappy business suit, just take the hood and gloves off and stick them in an accessible pocket. Put hood and gloves on if bullets start flying, otherwise you look just fine.


-karma

Plus, it's 2070. You can wear a live cyber-monkey on your second head if you want to. Meeting the Mr. Johnson isn't black tie at the country club.

Unless the meet is during a black tie affair at the country club.

*Even* then.

Reminds me of this, and it's always good for a laugh. Hehehe: "Taco Bell was the only restaurant to survive the Franchise Wars. Now all restaurants are Taco Bell."

If a fixer brings me someone with a cyber-monkey on their second head, that fixer is no longer bringing me people. Discretion is not an option, it's a requirement.

Maybe it's a disguise. You don't know. In 2070, it's called 'blending in'. Just pay the mercs.

Or double-cross them. You *ARE* a Johnson, after all.

Well, right. That's what I meant by 'pay' them.

Don't forget stuff like orthoskin & bone lacing. You can end up with military grade armor ratings

I thought we were talking about worn armor. Neither implant is worn and recipients of both can wear either piecemeal or MilSpec armor.

And everbody knows the real cyber armor comes in cyberlimbs

I find it amusing that suddenly adding a helmet to an armored jacket, or even go a step back, something like a racing suit, could suddenly encumber you. My take on it was that it was more like a dice pool modifier. Interestingly my GM read it this way as well. I may need to bring this up and rethink some designs, mostly the one for one of the other players.

Hmm, I've always taken helmets and such to add to encumbrance myself, never even really thought of them not

I think encumberance also reflects things like fatigue factors in addition to just weight considerations. Overheating considerations would be rather noticeable. For the same note, I can understand why some types of armor layering doesn't have as much impact/penalties. Consider, by putting on both an armored jacket and an armored lined coat, the hard plates/etc probably line up in more or less the same areas resulting in improved protection, but also now a doubled layer of rigid materials that likely doesn't move as freely.

It's not 'adding the helmet' that encumbers you. It's an abstract system, so you can't pick apart logical points like that. Having a total above BOD*2 encumbers you, regardless. (Subject to exceptions.)

I know this was back there a bit, but...

Yeah. Just like adepts who take martial arts get a +3 DV bonus for having read Arsenal. And faces who get empathy software get a +6 bonus to their social skills for having read Arsenal. And riggers? Forget about it. They can ride an Ares-Segway Terrier now. Rules expansions lead to power creep. And for all that, it's not that bad compared to some other systems.

but they dont' count as they dont effect emcuberance at all thus every armor stack could be said to have them thus its easy to ignore them for the math now.

It's not that bad but it's still a bit sad. Augmentation mostly avoided power creep: most of the augmentation that were really "+x bonus for having this book" were costly enough to turn them into ways to eventually push even further an experienced character (or very specialized). Most of the other augs were about giving new options to players. I wish all new gear/powers had been like this.

Guess it is just an homage to earlier editions. Piecemeal has always been (almost) as good as fullbody armor. Not that I agree with this sentiment

I like form fitting always have, is doing on average 1 less damage that big of an issue, is damage being converted to stun more often a big issue. At certain tables it might be, and for them I say don't allow it.


Me I generally want the PCs to be a bit tougher. Now in SR2-3 man FF was awesome it frequently brought your resistance TN down to 2. A troll with FF etc. took some serious hits without getting hurt. Now that is still possible but its less I am a troll with good armor and more pornomancer tank style.