Who really needs a Phanter Cannon?

Unless it is vehicle mounted the Sammy can live with less – and keep the power.

Take the PJSS Elephant Rifle.
Add Additional Clip X2
Add Extended Clip X2

2 Shots + X2 Clips = 4 Shots
Extended Clip= +25% / Clip = 2,5 shots per clip, Round up= 3 Shots per clip

The above modifications can easily be explained that the rifle have two barrels and have gained a cylinder magazine that locks two bullets to the twin barrels for each rotation and have 6 shots.

Then we saw off the barrel and stock for added concealability – or at least make it shorter.
Concealability, forget it. Now, I realize that is gimping yourself as the modification rules don’t allow for all of that at the same time but that part is for style so who gives…

Extra Clip X2= 4 Slots
Extended Clip X2= 2 Slots
Reduced barrel X2= 2 Slots

The weapon would look like something like a cross between a double barrelled rifle (over/under barrel design) and a Pancor Jackhammer.

We can still fire two shots at a time and with Ex-Ex we do 11P -2B up to 80 meters with no basic penalty.

We can also create a SR version of a real life rifle which are both the triple barrelled hunting rifle and there is also a four barrelled rifle.

Triple barrelled is simple. Add Extended Clip for the 3 barreled or Additional clip for the four barrelled version.

Tri barrelled firing all three barrels would do a base damage of 11P -2B and the four barrelled would do a 12P -2B.

Triple barrelled adds +2 recoil and the four barrelled +3 recoil when firing all barrels.

Panther



Those are options for clip fed weapons ( c), the PJSS is a break action weapon ( b) so they aren't available for it.

And... what would just stop you from taking a Panther (Yeah, it's Panther) instead? I don't see how the elephant rifle is subtler. ESPECIALLY if is it modded into a cycling monstrosity with a crapload of ammo.

Just plain old 10 -5AP, Standard, cheap Gun. = Panther.

Size.

Panther Cannons makes The barret rifle look tiny.

I just realized something funny.

In the description the PJSS is a Shotgun and in the table it is a hunting rifle...

Which is it?

I'm going to agree with the idea a panther is massive but you cant do that with that rifle so its academic really

Nope its under sports rifles SR4A pages 319 for decription 321 for table


Edit for quote

PJSS Elephant Rifle: If you want to shoot something big from a
safe distance, this huge double-barreled rifle is your weapon of choice.
Its two barrels can be shot at once with +1 DV and a –1 Recoil modifier.
Includes a rigid stock with shock pad.

My bad, didn't realize at first that there is a PJSS shotgun as well.

Null perspiration

Its a easy thing especially as they are in different books.

Only thing I will add is the shotgun is also not going to be able to take those mods as it loads like the rifle.

Someone who wants to use an assault cannon with an extended barrel as a beefed up sniper rifle?

Yea...that's really going the opposite way...

Still, you only get +10% range.

Still, it IS 1650 meters with no range penalty with a scope...

Add Ex-Explosive rounds and the will be dead before they hear the bang.

Assault cannons can take rounds other than 'Assault Cannon' rounds?

Doh, another good point...unless you are a weaponsmith with the specialization - Munitions.

I'd always thought your choices were "assault cannon round" or "AV assault cannon round". Admittedly, with SR4s nerf to assault cannon ranges, a Barrett loaded with APDS is sometimes a superior choice, but the assault cannon still has its' uses.

Sure - Vehicular manslaughter.

I thought that was a Citymaster or similar vehicle one used on go-gangs and pedestrians...

No - the Panther slaughters vehicles - and the mans inside them.

And spirits. A superplast round does a number on those pesky ITNW-armored gits.

You realize the elephant gun monstrosity you described is going to be just as "huge"?

Assault cannons aren't THAT big anyhow - heck, remember the original concept of the "assault cannon" WAS the Barrett 50 cal as it was displayed in the movie Robocop. Seriously. It was born pretty much when the original Shadowrun authors were watching Robocop and saw the "Cobra Assault Cannon" (which was really just a modified Barrett) and went, "Holy Crap that's cool." Same thing happened when they saw the Auto-9 pistol from the same movie - it became the Predator Heavy Pistol in Shadowrun. Although it lost the burst fire ability.

It wasn't til later that they started drawing them in the books with a fat barrel. Which still isn't THAT big, more like the diameter of a grenade launcher, just longer.

You make it sound like Assault Cannons are rocket launcher sized. They're not.



-karma

Just take Ares Vigorous Assault Cannon with shortened barrel, thats definedly smaller then that monstrosity of rifle you builded.

I'm pretty sure you can't mod the elephant rifle like that anyway, handwaving 'explanations' notwithstanding.

Talking about monstruosities: you can build a double assault cannon to bypass the SS rate. Assault cannon with underbarrel assault cannon.

Squishy goodness! Almost as much fun as the chunky salsa rules.

I'd hate to see the recoil mod though...

Why? Just mount it on a vehicle and modd the gun with recoil accessories.

Yo dawg, we herd ya like shootin assault cannons, so we put an assault cannon in yo assault cannon so you can shoot cannons while ya shoot cannons.




-karma

Want. Now.

Or you can just mod it adding SA firing mode, or maybe go dirctly to BF.

I mean, I suppose this leads to the discussion of why would you need an assault cannon at all? if you want to take out a vehicle from long range, use an antimaterial rifle like a Barret. if you need something more powerful and less discrete, go for a shoulder-launched rocket.

BZZZT! The correct answer is.... Gauss Rifle.

which, by game mechanics, is less powerful and more expensive than the Barret.

But about 50 times more stylish.

How do you figure?

only if you've changed the rocket rules. otherwise rockets suck.

oh, and i'm gonna have to also disagree with Daier Mune... a gauss cannon is going to outperform the sniper rifle in most cases, the exception being when the armor is so weak that both of them ignore it.

perhaps you've forgotten that the thunderstruck *first* divides the armor value by 2, and *then* reduces it by 4?

It's -half ap then -4? more it rips armour to bits after the errata. Sure it's base damage might just be lower but the thing will punch holes in things better.

Yes. That's why it's called the Thunderstruck.

The vehicle ones are the same way. The big one is -half then -10.

I'd have to hazard a guess that railguns in SR have a real problem with overpenetration if they're not being used on a highly armored targets.




-karma

'Problem'? I think you mean 'feature'.

overpenetration isn't a problem if you:

1) leave a big enough hole anyways
2) don't care about whatever happens to be behind your target

so, actually, i'd say that the thunderstruck doesn't have many problem with overpenetration at all.

(much like the bumper sticker "I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.")

I like this.

I am reminded of a scene from one of the Tremors movies, where there's a Graboid blocking the human's path to their getaway truck. Burt aims his Ultra-Big Rifle at it, blows the Graboid in half.

They get to the truck to find that the rifle shot also has also blown a hole through the engine.





-karma

So what would happen if you had a gauss rifle with underslung Panther cannon? The best of both worlds!

UWB + Thunderstruck = Eraser

See through walls.
Shoot through walls.
Enjoy your surprise bonuses.

oh did they change that? sorry, it's been so long since I've played that I'm remembering back to when Arsenal didn't specifically list the -half armor for the Thunderstruck, and there was much debate as to whether or not it got the railgun benefit. disregard my comment, then.

Indeed...

It's in the errata PDF.

Why would you actually need that all when a machine gun (or a minigun) can get its DV ridiculously higher with full auto bursts, and I don't recall anything in the books armored enough to stand its fire?

Burst fire mod don't count for armour pen or more peficaly weather it's stun or physical. Thus if it won't hurt the vehicle normally then it won't if you fire a 15 round long burst either.

A machine gun with full auto does 16P min (with medium MG and 1 net hit), right, if it hits?
As per RAW, you compare the final modified DV of the attack to the AP-modified armor value.
Which of the default vehicles are not getting penetrated? A Citymaster? With its Handling, you're likely to score more than 1 net hit.

Hmm, we need to figure out how to make the vehicluar mounted railgun man portable . . or at least troll portable . .

No, autofire DV bonus never counts toward comparing DV to armor.

Just go with any drone.

Also, offtopic: Common Sense is in RAW. It's a quality you need to pay some fat BP for, that's why nobody's buying.