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Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Aug 16 2010, 01:15 AM) *
Agreed, but a fan created tradition should not be able to do things no other tradition can. Summoning spirits of specific people is a considerable advantage IMHO.


Not really. It is more of a wash. Yes, you can gain info from Bob, but you lose access to a range of info as well. Other spirits might have knowledge about metaplanar events, threat style spirits etc. that the dead spirit of metahumans you can find won't have access to. And there is nothing that says a dead spirit of bob the janitor knows everything bob knew in life, or will reveal it in useful ways. Most summon the dead spirit type things in other games the spirit gives cryptic answers, and quite frankly it is not in the list of servies you can compel.

QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Aug 16 2010, 01:15 AM) *
If summonable spirits have true names, why would you go on an astral quest to acquire them? Just summon the spirit and order it to tell you.


There are things you can't order a spirit to give and true names is one of them. You can compel them to perform specific physical tasks, use there powers, aid in certain things like learning a spell, but giving up information they may or may not want to isn't on the list. As far as I can tell that would fall into the category of role playing interaction with your spirit. But besides that, a true name of a non-free spirit gains you no particular advantage. True names allow you to bind free spirits. Being capable of summoning up the same non-free spirit is not really that useful.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 16 2010, 04:37 PM) *
Not really. It is more of a wash. Yes, you can gain info from Bob, but you lose access to a range of info as well. Other spirits might have knowledge about metaplanar events, threat style spirits etc. that the dead spirit of metahumans you can find won't have access to. And there is nothing that says a dead spirit of bob the janitor knows everything bob knew in life, or will reveal it in useful ways. Most summon the dead spirit type things in other games the spirit gives cryptic answers, and quite frankly it is not in the list of servies you can compel.
This is only true if you grant spirits of other traditions additional powers that are not listed either. This is deep in houserule territory. Of course you could alter the gameworld to accommodate necromancers. But I'm arguing RAW.



QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 16 2010, 04:37 PM) *
There are things you can't order a spirit to give and true names is one of them. You can compel them to perform specific physical tasks, use there powers, aid in certain things like learning a spell, but giving up information they may or may not want to isn't on the list.
Can you point me to where this is actually written? A possibly appropriate physical task for the spirit could be to write down its true name.
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 16 2010, 04:37 PM) *
But besides that, a true name of a non-free spirit gains you no particular advantage. True names allow you to bind free spirits. Being capable of summoning up the same non-free spirit is not really that useful.
I'm still not sure if summonable Spirits actually have true names. At least it would remove the cost for binding materials, and you can be sure that you get the same spirit every time even if it is not in your service for some time.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Aug 16 2010, 11:23 AM) *
This is only true if you grant spirits of other traditions additional powers that are not listed either. This is deep in houserule territory. Of course you could alter the gameworld to accommodate necromancers. But I'm arguing RAW.


It isn't a house rule, they specifically mention spirits know things. Some know things about the present, some know things about existing in an alternate universe. Just because there is no stat write up for it like every other knowledge skill on a critter in the game, does not mean they don't have them. I'd say you are house ruling knowledge out of spirits personally.

QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Aug 16 2010, 11:23 AM) *
Can you point me to where this is actually written? A possibly appropriate physical task for the spirit could be to write down its true name.
I'm still not sure if summonable Spirits actually have true names. At least it would remove the cost for binding materials, and you can be sure that you get the same spirit every time even if it is not in your service for some time.


Can you point me to a place where it says you can command your spirit to do anything you want? Unless you have a broader interpretation of physical service than I do, it does not include divulging information. They give a list of what you can order it to do, you can interpret it to mean you can order a spirit to do anything including giving up its true name but it is never written that you can order them to divulge any information at all except for in the case of aid study. Binding them seems to open up a wider range of things they are willing to do including be forcible disrupted, but again information is not in the list outside of aid study. Given the dislike spirits have for being bound I'd think getting info in trade for services would be a good negotiating point but like I said information is not on the list. You want it, role play it like any other information source.

Honestly as far as I know they never go into true names for anything other than free spirits. Whether that is because only free spirits have true names or because you can only use true names against free spirits I am unsure. My impression from the novels/ was all spirits had true names but they would change and be modified at certain points like when it becomes an ally spiirt or goes free.
Stahlseele
Quote from 6WA Timeline on Page 57 Chapter 2039 - The Night of Rage
QUOTE
July 5—CAS:
In Charleston, South Carolina, the fi rst ever case solved with
the help of one of the criminal victim’s ghosts is closed by Julius Wren,
a magician with degrees in both criminology and thaumaturgy. The
serial killer is captured after Wren studies the ghost’s actions, which
revealed evidence that led to the murderer’s arrest and conviction.

And in the Burning Times, the NOVEL, Talon summons the Ancestor Spirit of his old Mentor and Lover and talks to him.
And he remembers. And knows. And acts like the same Person did back when he was alive too.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 16 2010, 12:38 PM) *
Quote from 6WA Timeline on Page 57 Chapter 2039 - The Night of Rage

And in the Burning Times, the NOVEL, Talon summons the Ancestor Spirit of his old Mentor and Lover and talks to him.
And he remembers. And knows. And acts like the same Person did back when he was alive too.


Well the ghost one might not be a spirit, Ghosts can be psychic impressions of the living after death. But yes there are multiple examples of calling on ancestor spirits.
darthmord
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 16 2010, 11:38 AM) *
Quote from 6WA Timeline on Page 57 Chapter 2039 - The Night of Rage

And in the Burning Times, the NOVEL, Talon summons the Ancestor Spirit of his old Mentor and Lover and talks to him.
And he remembers. And knows. And acts like the same Person did back when he was alive too.


In one of the core books (might be Street Magic) it talks about spirit testimony not being admissible in court. There is an example of a mage investigator who followed the ghost to the murder site and showed the investigator the evidence. That evidence was enough to get the conviction.
Neraph
QUOTE (darthmord @ Aug 16 2010, 12:56 PM) *
In one of the core books (might be Street Magic) it talks about spirit testimony not being admissible in court. There is an example of a mage investigator who followed the ghost to the murder site and showed the investigator the evidence. That evidence was enough to get the conviction.

I think the spirit section that they're quoting was also printed in the book you're talking about. I believe it was in the fluff section of Runner's Companion.

Will be back, I'm-a hunting it down.
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