Anyway, the 'full' bit is mentioned a few posts back. You were there.

I'm not debating whether or not the word "full" has been used in this thread - I'm not seeing it in the rules. Also the sentence in question also mentions the Immunity as being armor, so your "protection" argument is invalid as it refered to the armor.

The critter gains an "Armor rating" equal to twice its Magic against that damage. This Immunity Armor is treated as "hardened" protection (see Hardened Armor above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage.

If the modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Hardened Armor rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly off the critter; don't even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test. Otherwise, Hardened Armor provides both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.

Ok, so Fire Protection and other things similar to that say you add the full rating. But those are not what Immunities are.

Underline mine.

Trying to say that Immunities function like Fire Protection simply because they use the word "protection" once while describing the armor is flat-out wrong. You are forcing your misguided comprehension of a sentence on the mechanics of the game. If what you claim is right, the entire section would have been worded dramatically differently.

/quit This is stupid.

"I am hitting a fire immune critter with fire so it only gets half of its immunity bonus."

But often entertaining... Look at the upside, I would love to use Goblins as Thor Shots... I mean really, an ammunition that breeds, Talk about effeciency...

Tungsten doesn't talk back and you don't have to feed it.

All of them except Age *are* resistances, right? And it's odd to talk about 'Immunity to Age' in the first place; it really doesn't belong with them.

You know this is true, because why would Immunity be halved against the thing that it's Immunity against?

It won't. That's the best part. Bye bye, goblin.

Like I said: Immunity to Age doesn't really fit. I didn't say it's not in that section, but that it shouldn't be. It's separate and different, that's all. It's not an important point.

Elemental damage (halving) is a whole different animal from 'Normal Weapons'; I don't see the connection.

<~ Not a dev

Immunity to [XXX] was clarified somewhat in Running Wild. Before anyone has a hissy cow (never underestimate the power of the hissy cow) over the fact that immunity does not grant, well, immunity, please keep in mind that these rules are descended from previous editions, which worked in basically the same way.

Anyway, fire. Fire does not actually have any armor penetration per se, it does modify the Impact armor value (yes, I know that sounds like silly semantics, but I had to deal with a Flaming Stun spell once and these things can be important). Immunity to Fire gives the critter the equivalent of Hardened Armor (Magic x 2) against Fire damage. That means that if the modified Damage Value of the fire attack is less than the critter's Magic x 2, it doesn't even make a test for damage. If the fire DV is greater, then the Hardened Armor is treated as Ballistic/Impact armor and you can apply the normal modifier from fire damage.

Okay, that sounds like a bunch of glass ninja stuff, so let's look at an example.

Zippo the fire rat has Magic 3 and Immunity to Fire. That means against fire damage, he has effective Hardened Armor 6. Running around in the volcanic vent that is his home, which normally deals 3 DV fire damage per turn, Zippo doesn't burn at all. If some nasty shaman throws a Force 7 Fireball at him, however, Zippo is in trouble, because at 7 DV it exceeds his (Magic x 2). Zippo still has an effective Impact Armor 3 (Magic x 2 / 2) when resisting the 7 DV attack, however.

Certain environmental effects—acid, fire, extreme cold,
electricity—have a slightly different effect than standard types of
damage, as noted below.

Acid damage is treated as Physical damage
and resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up).

Cold damage is treated as Physical
damage and resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up).

Electrical damage is treated as Stun damage and resisted
with half Impact armor (rounded up)—metallic armor, however,
offers no protection.

Falling Damage
Use Body + half the rating of the
character’s Impact armor (round down) to resist this damage.

Fatigue Damage
this damage cannot be resisted.

Treat Fire damage as Physical damage, but Impact armor only
protects against it with half its value (round up).

So, does Armor Penetration from normal weapons apply against Spirits who have Immunity to Normal Weapons? If so, you're not being consistant. If not, you're not playing with the rules properly.

EDIT: Woah, the post I quoted disappeared...

Of course ITNW is affected by AP Modifiers... it is ARMOR... Fire Immunty is treated like Fire Protection (Assuming the damage is not affected by the Hardening itself), thus it does not reduce, as it is a MODIFICATION of the armor rules...

But hey, Your table, your rules...

Unless stated in the SR4A or some errata somewhere, neither of which are actually quoted, I have quoted that you are flat wrong. It is armor. Period. Show me a hard rule where it says that the armor gained from Immunity is related to the Armor Modifications section, and not the sentence that uses an adjective to describe the armor as a protection. Quote for me, from a book, where it says it is an Armor Modification similar to Fire Protection, not some strange corollary that exists only in your mind.

It gives armor, just the exact same as ItNW, and it is affected by Armor Penetration (or similar effects), just the same as ItNW.

Unless stated in the SR4A or some errata somewhere, neither of which are actually quoted, I have quoted that you are flat wrong. It is armor. Period. Show me a hard rule where it says that the armor gained from Immunity is related to the Armor Modifications section, and not the sentence that uses an adjective to describe the armor as a protection. Quote for me, from a book, where it says it is an Armor Modification similar to Fire Protection, not some strange corollary that exists only in your mind.

It gives armor, just the exact same as ItNW, and it is affected by Armor Penetration (or similar effects), just the same as ItNW.

Saying that Immunity (Fire) is not affected by armor reducing effects while Immunity (Normal Weapons) is is simply hypocritical (I did not want to use this word, but I can think of no better word). Not to mention you're using a single adjective to hinge your whole argument on. Or that the rules tell you to refer to Armor, and not Armor Modifications. There is no hard rules corollary that links Immunity to Armor Modifications, and the rules for the section are not particularly poorly written.

That's why I say it's wrong.

In any event, Immunity (Fire) the way it's supposed to be played still is effective, just not overwhelmingly so as you'd have it.

Eh, fair enough.

I think hellhounds would be better for it, as they are more than likely less expensive to upkeep and less likely to complain.

I also think goblins should be an ork or troll version, not dwarf. Orks and trolls are called goblins, their Awakening was called Goblinization, they have Goblin Rock - why are dwarves lumped into their category? I believe it to be a misnomer.

The real question is: Would you hear one screaming while it is hurdling at you if he is going faster than the sound barrier?

And would it be considered a Death By Glomp?

Hmmmmm...

I would have to say No to the First one...
Death by Glomp? I am, unfortunately, unfamiliar with that terminology... what is Glomp?

Someone needs to cosplay more^^

The term Neraph is referring to, is from fangirls' tendencies to glomp anyone playing as one of their fav bishies.

Wow, this terminology is greatly confusing... Bishies?

It was kind of intended to be^^

Bishies

You stand at the threshold of a new world