Ok, so I am playing around with the idea of a new gunslinger for myself. The guy would only use pistols. His normal schtick is the 2 semi-automatics in his hands. Ambidex, dual-wielding pistols. Blah, blah, blah... however, if he ever saw something really mean and nasty, he would need something with more oomph. So I thought of giving him some big, bad-ass revolver he wears on his hip. I was wondering...

Can I take a Colt Cavalier Revolver (the semi-automatic revolver from Arsenal) and add the Burst-Fire modification to it? So, with every pull of the trigger, the the gun would shoot a 3 round burst. Since it's a revolver and uses a cylinder as it's ammo container... it's not possible for such a weapon?

Or would you recommend some other weapon? His theme is Pistols only, so no SMG's, Shotguns, etc...

First of all the RL perspective, semi-auto revolver technology does exist but is rarely used. Revolver autocannons on the other hand are quite popular as an alternative to gatling guns.

In SR terms the SS-BF mod includes some massive handwavium, modding a bolt-action rifle for full auto is no less believeable than a burst-firing revolver. And double the uncompensated recoil, just to show everybody what a big badass piece you are toting


PS: Now that you've got me thinking, maybe in addition to the BF mod add an ammo skip system (to turn the drum) and electronic firing (no more cocking), that should reduce the necessary suspension of disbelief a bit...

I know that revolvers are cool, but wouldn´t it be easier to modify a ares-viper-slivergun to shoot regular ammunition? This would be burst-fire-cabability, a higher damage code AND a clip with 30 shots. Much more bang for your bucks. (I don´t know if this is possible, but IF it is possible it would be the better solution).

Ruger Thunderbolt. Base has BF only, only fires Short Bursts. Small Fire Selection Modification to add Semi-Auto. Use the rest of the slots however you please :JD

Ruger Thunderbolt. Base has BF only, only fires Short Bursts. Small Fire Selection Modification to add Semi-Auto. Use the rest of the slots however you please :JD

What Damage code does the Ruger have?

The street sam in my game opted for the slightly more realistic (than revolver burst fire, that is) option of commissioning a pair of heavy duty .50 cal revolvers with smart ammo selection. I gave him a bonus to DV and AP that he is quite happy with. They're single-shot, so he gets one shot with each per action phase. I'd say that a +1 to DV and -1 to AP are just as good as burst fire, especially since the burst fire DV bonus isn't figured into armor penetration.

5P, -1 AP, 2 base RC, making it an excellent candidate for dual-wielding

Speaking as a gun-obsessed person, with my enormous, encyclopedic (and wholly theoretical) knowledge of firearms, I see no reason for this of all things to not be possible in Shadowrun.

Personally, I'd go with:

Ruger Thunderbolt
-Firing Selection Change(SA) 1 Slot
-Firing Selection Change(FA) 1 Slot
-Personalized Grip 1 Slot
-whatever feature you think is cool

and

Ruger Super Warhawk
-Firing Selection Change(SA) 1 Slot
-Increased Cylinder 1 Slot
-Smartgun System

..Adding Personalized Grip and Underbarrel- weight makes 4 RC (if Optional rule from Arsenal is in use.. STR 6 min gives u Extra RC,
6 round burst and no penalties..)

If you're going for the pistol theme you could always try for the Armstech MGL-6 which is a grenade pistol. Only problem is the availbility. Will have to do good on your fast talk GM skill.

The FN-AAL Gyrojet pistol pretty much has the same problem with avail., but it's thematically awesome. It's a pistol that fires rockets and it works underwater.

Could always go with the Roomsweeper. It's pistol sized and has the same range iirc.

Why the Roomsweeper when you can go for the Altmayr SP. It's a pistol sized shotgun without the drawbacks of the Roomsweeper.

So he has pair of Ruger Super Warhawks or did you actually gave him a pair of revolvers that have 7P -3AP damage code?

Except that you need the long-arms skill for that, it is after all a shotgun, not a pistol.

Remington Roomsweeper is classified as Heavy Pistol,as is Ares Viper Slivergun. Pistols skill is used
when firing them.

If you really need to kill something with a pistol (especially with ambidexterity) I can not overstate the power of the Ruger Super Warhawk. The gun is SS but if you have one in each hand you can fire twice per Combat Turn. Not only does it pack an extra DV but it also has an extra AP. And since you're not splitting your dice pools, you'll generate more hits (what you need to punch through heavy armor like spirits/vehicles). No recoil, no firing mode alterations, etc. If you don't think you need the extra hits, pick up Electronic Firing, SS->SA mods to get yourself four blasts per turn. Works incredibly well with XX and APDS ammunition but gel rounds are also pretty sick as the knockdown is high enough to take down bigger things.

Pair or ruger super warhawks with EX Exoplosive ammo gets you to 7p and with SS you can shoot one wiht each hand and full pool every turn.

Personally, I'd never fire the first one on FA unless I wanted a broken wrist.

Yes it is, but Altmeyer shotgun pistol from the german arsenal isn't

Yes i know that, Warhawk also have +1 to dv and -1 to AP compared to normal heavy pistol.
I was asking whether his player has a pair of those or did he give him revolvers that are 7P and -3AP with normal ammo

It's got the DV and AP of the Warhawk but I let him geek out and design the pistols to be crafted by his weaponsmith contact.

Why bother? I can't remember ever firing a single bullet from an automatic weapon, except when it was the only one left.

He wanted a pistol theme. I would have suggested a shotgun if he would have said gunslinger.

Any other interesting things in the german arsenal?

Too bad it isn't a pistol, even though it is called pistol. It's an exotic ranged weapon and uses that skill.

Put a gas vent on it and there is no recoil. BTW FA also includes three round bursts.

FA does not include short bursts (3).

1) FA is not 3-round bursts, that's a short burst
2) the gun doesn't have enough bullets in it to use full auto anyways.

Anyway, I'd allow a BF revolver. It's not really more unbalanced than anything else, and SS-to-BF uses most of your mod slots.

On point 2 - sure it does. Anything less than the minimum required amount for the burst simply subtracts from the DV (or dodge mod)

@1: Yes, it does:
Emphasis and added bullet number mine
The section above is: Burst Fire mode.

@2 With the rules from 1 you need a minimum of 3 (2 actually) bullets to fire in FA. So the Thunderbolt has enough. you can even get it to 2*11. that's even enough for suppressive fire.

@Gas vent: sorry that was nonsense, pistols cannot take them.

Weird. You're right, sorry; must be a new change, though. It's silly that you can mod a gun to have FA and *not* BF anyway.

It's not, it's been that way at least since 3rd edition. SR4 without the A has the same wording. While there are IRL guns that have SA and FA but not BF, I know of no rule that forbids modding either BF or FA or both.

No, I mean that it's silly that you can mod a gun to have SS/FA or SA/FA, etc.; FA without BF. It costs the same in money and slots to get FA, and going from FA to BF is explicitly an option. Weird, because of the costs; while RL guns can indeed be SA/FA, there's no reason to do so in SR4 if FA *includes* BF.

Anyway, for the OP: no RAW or balance reasons to disallow the BF or FA mods on your revolver, whether SS or SA. You'll be using 2/3 of your mod slots, it's F and expensive, and RC is hard to get. *shrug*

Well By RAW the difference between a BF and a FA 3 round burst is that you cannot call a shot in FA, which is silly in its own right. But you're right, BF is basically useless unless there are weapons which can't for whatever reason be upgraded to FA.

Yeah, it makes sense for BF-without-FA to exist, but not the other way around. Tell me this, though: do the devs know that FA can fire short bursts? Why have BF/FA LMGs and FA-only MMGs, then? (I'm not talking about miniguns, etc., which have fixed fire rates.)

Anyway. It's funny that you mentioned/de-mentioned Gas Vents, because as we know revolvers in RL certainly can have gas vents. Chalk up another 'realism' difference. If you're only firing short bursts with the revolver, though, you can use Folding Stock, Personalized Grip, and/or the optional STR-to-RC rule. The Underbarrel Weight (mod version only) works by RAW, but it uses both remaining mod slots.

Main benefit of BF over FA, for Short or Long Bursts, is the Ability to call a shot (As weird as that is)...

Technically, for many firearms burst fire mechanisms are actually slightly more complicated than full auto.

Burst fire has to have a bit that stops the firing after 3 rounds. Full auto does not.

Also, just because I'm surprised nobody's linked it yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateba_Autorevolver


-karma

Or these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_revol...chine_revolvers Not hand guns nut one is three round burst firing AR type weapon. Weather smaller round would be able to work in such mechanisms IDK but its physical possible to make FA/BF revolvers just its not conman as they would be rather niche.

Yeah, as I said Tymeaus, I wouldn't allow a Called Shot with a Wide Burst anyway, and the 'loophole' that keeps an FA short burst from being the same as a BF short burst is just that.

Maybe its becouse it tooks so much concentration to fire just 3 rounds on full auto, that you dont have enough left to do a called shot

The trick to that is that you just don't worry about firing exactly 3 rounds. 3-5 rounds is close enough.

What you might do is just say that people with 3 points or more in Automatics (or whatever) just can fire a short burst on full auto, and not worry about it.

Characters with less skill, roll 10 dice, and every hit is a bullet used to get the effect of your 3-round burst.

Confused it with a Street Sweeper, damn.

Ruge Maga Warhawk

The Mega Warhawk is a bit of a overmodified monster. The firing mechanism has been changed to a fixed burstfiring mode and all manual parts (exept the loading mechanism) have been removed. The Mega Warhawks deals a hell of a damage but has barely any recoil compensation, plus it has to be reloaded every combat turn. The Mega Warhawk can't be fired without a smartlink. A glitch will cause a malfunction that has to be attended with an armorer (2) skill test.

Mods

Ammo Skip System (1)
Electronic Firing (2)
Trigger Removal (-)
Firing Selection Change to BF (4)
Internal Smartlink (-)

Stats

Damage: 6P
AP: -2
Mode: BF
RC: 1
Ammo: 6 (cy)

Cost: 4.000

Electronic Firing is just so "wimpy". It doesn't seem the right flavor for the gun you're trying to build, Doc. Actually, same goes for Trigger Removal. It seems to me that a character who wanted SOTA BLEEDING EDGE HIGH TECH SHIT would probably not be using a revolver.

Anyway, that certainly is an interesting gun.

Well, since silencing revolvers is a pretty expensive business, personalized grip could replace electronic firing, since the two don't stack anyway.

Electronic Firing and Ammo Skip System are more fluff than crunch for a burstfire moded six-gun.

Personally, I'd rather have an Increased Cylinder than an ammo skip system. Not worth it IMO on a gun with low ammo capacity.

Only in Revolvers does the ammo skip system make sense. When do you need more than two types of ammo in a weapon? Additional clip has the same functionality without wasting ammo.

But what do you do with 8 bullets, if your gun can only fire 3 or 6 at a time? If you reload after 2 short bursts or 1 long burst anyway, you don't need 2 additional bullets.

Partial Burst Fire. As for ammo, AV rounds will do the trick most of the time.

Isn't that 7 out of 6 mod slots anyway?

Exactly. Regular/Ex/Ex²/APDS/AV whatever is available against things immune to stun and SnS against the rest. Highly specialized ammo (capsule rounds/lockbreaker shells etc.) can well be carried in a separate magazine

That's why the poster added side effects.