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klinktastic
So I'm just making a bunch of characters in preparation for a new game. Not sure what the other players are coming with, so I want a variety.

Anyway, I rarely see cyber arms in use, so I want to make use of them. I was invisioning two obvious cyber arms laid out something like this:

Right Arm:
-Customized Limb Body 4 (to 7)
-Agility 4 (to 7)
-Enhanced Capacity 4
-Armor 2
-"A Gun"

Left Arm:
-Customized Limb Body 4 (to 7)
-Strength 4 (to 7)
-Agility 3 (to 6)
-Enhanced Capacity 4
-Shock Hand
-Retractable Spur
-Armor 2
-Small Smuggling Compartment

That way I have an arm that is good at shooting and another that is good a brawling. Does this make sense? Or is it really a waste? I'd ideally like to have the option for a hidden gun or switch to a shotgun. Would it make more sense to cut strength and just have a shock hand? That way I would only train unarmed combat and not blades as well.

Anyway, the double arms plus accessories comes out to about 60k. I feel like it might be better to just get muscle toners if I go the agility route.

Thoughts, comments, and criticism appreciated. Thanks!
Whipstitch
Well, for one thing, make sure to take Ambidexterity if you truly intend to lead your melee attacks with your left limb as per the RAW examples, otherwise you're going to be eating an offhand penalty with one of your limbs at some point or at the very least you'll be forced to use your average attribute value rather than just your strong arm. Anyway, I like cyberlimbs, but I'm not a big fan of having many limbs each with varying attributes since it makes for some unnecessary futzing around with otherwise mundane tests when you're called upon to use more than one limb at a time. Beyond that, it's also quite possible to have arms that very nearly match and are as good or better than your current setup. For example, you could lay off on some of the hideously illegal cyberweapons and instead simply have boosted all-around stats and some cyberlimb optimizations. Frankly, I'd rather have a couple of Ultimate Champion cyberlimbs or one EVO Kali than both a Spur AND a Shock Hand. If you want an emergency taser just get some frills or wear a shock glove over your cyberhand.

Oh, and as a general rule, there is no "Agility route." If you're a gunslinger, pugilist or sword swinger, you want Agility one way or the other, peroid. Damage codes don't mean very much if you can't connect in the first place. Another guideline is that from a cost effectiveness angle, cyberlimbs are actually best for characters who fit their intended original market: The physically disabled. They're generally better at boosting up a wimpy character than they are at complimenting someone who's already nice and meaty without them. If you're boosting that Body score mostly because your character is already a big ol' strong ork or troll than you almost assuredly will get more mileage out of skipping the arms and just going with Muscle Augs, Toners or Replacements.
klinktastic
I think I understand it a little better. My concept was basically to use the cyber arms to pump up the str or agility because his meat scores were going to be pretty low. The focus of my meat skills were going to be reaction, body, and edge. The cyber arms were to make up for any deficiencies with his 3's on everything else...physical scores at least.

How does it work if you pump Body on your limbs but your meat score is lower? Does it average out or does it just go to the lowest? It seems like cyber weapons just aren't practical. The only thing that makes some sense is maybe a shock hand and a taser that's hidden.

What's you take on armor on the limb? Important to add the armor? What are some other cool things to throw on cyber arms? How would you design a pair of arms based on what I was thinking?
Yerameyahu
On another issue: one major advantage of cyberlimbs is capacity for non-limb things, so don't forget to save a little space for a nanohive or a commlink or something. UWB radar or Scanner, perhaps. Orientation system (if the GM lets you, it's technically Earware?). Auto-injector(s), for sure, probably with Biomonitor.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (klinktastic @ Oct 14 2010, 10:41 PM) *
How does it work if you pump Body on your limbs but your meat score is lower? Does it average out or does it just go to the lowest?


Cyberlimb attributes are averaged with the other body areas for most situations. You take the ratings of your arms, legs, & torso, add them together, and divide by 5. Use the character's normal attributes for non-cyberlimb body areas.

The GM can rule that a particular situation only involves a particular body area, and as such only uses that area's rating. Like if your arm gets slammed in a door, the damage resistance check might use the Body of that arm rather than the averaged Body value.

Cyberlimb Armor, notably, is NOT averaged - it all stacks together. Although a lot of GMs houserule this to use the average.

As before the GM can decide only the cyberarmor from a particular area matters in a specific situation.



-k
Tanegar
QUOTE (klinktastic @ Oct 14 2010, 08:40 PM) *
Right Arm:
-Customized Limb Body 4 (to 7)
-Agility 4 (to 7)

This bit, at least, is illegal. Cyberlimb customization only goes up to the natural attribute maximum for your metatype, and no metatype has both Body 7+ and Agility 7+. Anything above the attribute max must be purchased as an enhancement. The Body 7/Strength 7 arm is legal, but only for orks, dwarfs, and trolls.
klinktastic
@Tanegar - Good catch. That's interesting and something I didn't know. It will be good to keep in mind.

@KarmaInferno - Good to know. Thanks for the clarification. So for shooting, pumping agility in the arms for firearms skills is good. But I wouldn't be reaping many benefits for infiltration rolls. That's pretty sweet about the armor. So 2 armor on each arm stacks with itself, plus other armor you'd be wearing.

@Yerameyahu - Good idea to plop a few extra goodies in those arms, especially if I'm going to add some extra capacity. Any other goodies that make sense to put in there?

Is it usually worth it to customize the arms in multiple attributes to maximize capacity?
Yerameyahu
Don't forget that Bulk modding is going to be more obvious. Tradeoffs. smile.gif

Um. Olfactory Booster is surprisingly handy, and Ultrasound. Don't forget that almost all of these are also available as non-cyber external sensors, though. It's a decision. What else: Air Tank can make you immune to some toxins, but I never understood how it works if it's not near your lungs. smile.gif The Gyromount is, of course, very badass, but it's also F (if that kind of thing bothers you); I guess the cyber-weapons are too.

Even with Obvious arms, you're going to tear through your capacity fast with Attributes and Armor.
Mäx
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2010, 05:07 AM) *
Cyberlimb Armor, notably, is NOT averaged - it all stacks together. Although a lot of GMs houserule this to use the average.

As before the GM can decide only the cyberarmor from a particular area matters in a specific situation.

Damm, i will never understand GM:s who house rule something barely useful into total oblivion of "not worth it ever"
Yerameyahu
They want their players to be slightly concerned about bullets. But let's not derail the OP's questions.
Karoline
Darn, you post this just a week or so after I deleted my "Crazy cyberlimb" character sheet, figuring I would never have another use for it. The premise was simple enough: Take a human with 1 bod, agi, and str, and slap on arms and legs all modded up to 8-9 in stats with 4 points of armor on each limb (Yes, I know, the armor is not CG legal, but easy to add on the two extra points of armor right out of chargen). Stats average out to 7-8, and are 9s when doing things like shooting guns or melee combat or whatever. And of course there is the 16/16 armor while naked, which stacks with all other armor.

Main disadvantage of the character was only 1 IP, but that is easily countered by drugs and grabbing synaptic boosters in the future.

Edit: You could of course do this with some other race if you wanted to mod up your stats even higher. Could throw in things like genetic optimization to increase how high you can raise stuff as well.

The premise of the character was to 1) show that cyberlimbs weren't as underpowered as so many people were claiming and 2) that the 'cyberlimb armor stacks' rule can be fairly crazy if you have more than one limb at 2 armor.
Stahlseele
As for the natural limits:
that's what exceptional attribute is good for.
if you don't get your attribute up to maximum, the maximum is still higher and thus you can get the limbs higher.
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 15 2010, 01:53 AM) *
Darn, you post this just a week or so after I deleted my "Crazy cyberlimb" character sheet,


I still have mine, the basics idea mechanics is to have a cyber gun in an arm with increased agility and then a pair of legs for running/jumping and melee combat. Legs can be modded more than arms so its easier to stack agility, strength, armor, and body onto them, where as the arm only needs agility and a gun and then if you have extra room to use tack on some body and strength. I wanted the character to be able to have entirely licensable equipment, so I also made the arm modular to allow for swapping out the lower arm with gun for another lower arm without one, the only real disadvantage was not being able to use any reflex enhancing ware. The end result looked like this:

[ Spoiler ]


Note the commlink specs aren't top notch, but the smartgun is internal so the character can operate all equipment with no wireless turned on, the character should have additional commlinks for IDs and communication, the internal one is strictly to run gear. Datajacks and skinlinks can be used to operate addtional devices. The gun and arm are both restricted gear, so that quality needs to be taken twice. Other items to consider are a bio-monitor and an agent program equipped with some diagnostics and control software for your cyberware (i.e. "Jeeves, I need more power, redline my legs.")

The legs only come up to availability 10, so 2 more custom strength or agility can be added, both if the casemods are dropped (but then you lose style points).

The character has 8/8 built in armor (2 on each of 3 limbs plus 2 dermal plating), I think with just basic armor like an armored vest and FFBA2 on it comes out to 18/13. Average body and hit boxes are a bit more difficult to figure out since you have to take your base attribute then average it in with the cyberlimbs, then add 3 more body boxes just for having three cyberlimbs. With 3 base body the character should have an average body of 6 (3+3+3+9+9+9=36, 36/6=6) for damage resistance tests (and maybe encumbrance depending on your GM) and the character should have 14 hit boxes (8+6/2+3=14).
klinktastic
@Fauxknight - That's pretty interesting. I guess you could tack on an autoinjector to give yourself combat drugs to obtain additional initiative passes.
Fauxknight
QUOTE (klinktastic @ Oct 15 2010, 10:24 AM) *
@Fauxknight - That's pretty interesting. I guess you could tack on an autoinjector to give yourself combat drugs to obtain additional initiative passes.


Well I came to the idea when trying to make a human sam/merc (see the thread on how humans are inferior). So part of the premise was to use maxxed out cyberlimbs that were just as good as any of the metas could take because once you run out of capacity and top out the availability the limbs end up the same. Since the character was a human, you save build points from not spending on race and then not needing very high physical attributes even as a sam, that leaves points to dump in edge which allows you to buy extra initiative passes.

Autoinjectors were certainly on my list though, several of them with different compounds. I was even considering doses of nanites in them. Autoinjectors seemed like a decent solution to prevent degradation of extremely situational nanite types, while not wasting rating on your nanohive if you have one.
Summerstorm
There is already an archetype with low physical attributes and a lot of cyber: Cyborgs...

I mean... you could just go ALL the way and just lose a few grams of brain too... and that whole squishy stuff in your torso. *g*
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Oct 15 2010, 10:50 AM) *
There is already an archetype with low physical attributes and a lot of cyber: Cyborgs...

I mean... you could just go ALL the way and just lose a few grams of brain too... and that whole squishy stuff in your torso. *g*


The biggest problem I have with cyborgs is that all the human model drones are above 20 availability, meaning even if you had the cash you can't get one even with the restricted gear quality. The cyborgs as pcs optional rules don't even mention about being able to break that restriction.
klinktastic
That, and it wouldn't really all the fun playing a cyborg. More fun to play a guy who has a self confidence complex and cybers himself up to feel tough.
Summerstorm
Yeah... my post was half in jest. Of course there is a big difference between cyborg and cybered human. I don't think many people "Choose" to become a cyborg anyway...

Just as most people (if they take the bulk option) wont have ALL or even most of their body replaced. Once you really replaced too much psychological breakdown is pretty much assured. The normal cyberlimbs, with synthetic skin and good feedback are much more common for a reason. But a few psychos: Bodymodders, fetishists and insane troll-berserkers would run around with hulking machinery as their bodies though.

Ah yes... reminds me of one character we had back in our SR3 group some years back:

Black cyberlimbs: Arms with claws, Kid Stealth (raptor) legs with cyberskates, balance tail, cyberskull with glowing red eyes and fangs. Saving up to finaly get a cybertorso (and replace something for better grade... to not DIE from essenceloss): Hunting hobos in the tunnels by skating with like 80 km/h and screaming like a madman.

Or the MAGE with 2 essence: Cyberskull and torso, and arms... all armored. Overcast a magic armor, wore a good one too, had spellpool to resist. Was pretty much the tank against everything.

Ah well, back on topic... what was i going to write? Hm... AH YES.

REDLINING. The only thing which makes cyberlimbs as good as they should be. I am in favour of allowing redlining BEYOND hardcap. (So it is still useful if you already have such high attributes with them) Nice rule.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Fauxknight @ Oct 15 2010, 11:15 AM) *
The biggest problem I have with cyborgs is that all the human model drones are above 20 availability, meaning even if you had the cash you can't get one even with the restricted gear quality. The cyborgs as pcs optional rules don't even mention about being able to break that restriction.

Yeah, I have a character that is saving up to buy one in-game specifically cos she can't buy one at chargen.

It's going to be a while.



-k
sabs
I thought about a character who was a top of the line thief/gymnast. Who has Lupus, and is under going slow, painful complete organ shutdown. So, he's saving up for a fully cyborg body.
Summerstorm
Hm, i see... not just a genetic treatment?
Also, why Lupus? We all know it is NEVER LUPUS *g*

But yeah, severe sickness is a good excuse to become a killercyborg.
sabs
Because Lupus is untreatable? And despite what House says.. it is on occasion Lupus.
Mäx
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Oct 15 2010, 05:35 PM) *
REDLINING. The only thing which makes cyberlimbs as good as they should be. I am in favour of allowing redlining BEYOND hardcap. (So it is still useful if you already have such high attributes with them) Nice rule.

Redlining allready allows you to go over your augmented maximums, the limit is douple the current rate.
But the damage is causes is a little too serious for the benefits, possibly even more so then adrenaline pump.
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Mäx @ Oct 15 2010, 12:08 PM) *
Redlining allready allows you to go over your augmented maximums, the limit is douple the current rate.
But the damage is causes is a little too serious for the benefits, possibly even more so then adrenaline pump.


The damage can be excessive, but unlike the adrenaline pump its fully controllable and resistable. So if you have decent body and a trauma damper you can kick it up a notch or two for lengthy periods of time and possibly not take any damage.
Stahlseele
Aside from even with the Trauma Dapener your stun track STILL filling up . .
And going into physical Overflow Damage. Which you will not immediately notice.
Because of your Trauma Dampener doing it's job, not of stopping damage but of stopping you from FEELING the pain.
And when your Physical Track is full, you go into physical overflow. Your limbs rip and tear from your torso.
And you die. In a pretty spectacular and gruesome way . . And you can lie there and watch it all happen.
Without feeling any pain. Because of your Trauma Dampener still doing it's job. Yay! . .
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 15 2010, 02:26 PM) *
Aside from even with the Trauma Dapener your stun track STILL filling up . .
And going into physical Overflow Damage. Which you will not immediately notice.
Because of your Trauma Dampener doing it's job, not of stopping damage but of stopping you from FEELING the pain.
And when your Physical Track is full, you go into physical overflow. Your limbs rip and tear from your torso.
And you die. In a pretty spectacular and gruesome way . . And you can lie there and watch it all happen.
Without feeling any pain. Because of your Trauma Dampener still doing it's job. Yay! . .


I think you're mixing the damper up with a pain editor. The damper doesn't make you ignore stun it subtracts 1 from every set of stun. Redlining by only one point causes 2 boxes of stun a turn, subtract one for the damper and now you only have to soak one box a turn. Anyone with 4+ body should make that roll most of the time and will not rack up any significant damage if any.

A pain editor also works here if you only need the occasional redline out of combat (when you feel the need to throw a car or something),but the pain editor prevents the trauma damper from working so you don't really want both.

Come to think of it the cyber set I postet earlier really ought to include a trauma damper instead of platelet factory, but the 15k cost difference is really going to be cutting into the characters budget (As listed the characters cyber/bioware already cost 216,500).
Stahlseele
Ah, yes, right, i keep getting those two mixed up for some reason <.<
Dreadlord
Don't you have to have a Cybertorso in order to go over BOD/AGI/STR 3 for standard cyberlimbs, and a Cybertorso if you go over your natural stats by 3 for Customized?

SR4a p.343
Stahlseele
Yes and No.
Technically, you need a Cyberlimb to get more ENHANCEMENTS than level 3 in there . .
But if the limb is CUSTOMIZED it STARTS AT Racial Natural Max and everything ABOVE THAT would be Enhancements . .
This is pretty much interpreting a rule STRAIGHT BY THE WRITING. Not neccessarely by intention, but perfectly RAW.
Mäx
QUOTE (Dreadlord @ Oct 15 2010, 09:06 PM) *
Don't you have to have a Cybertorso in order to go over BOD/AGI/STR 3 for standard cyberlimbs, and a Cybertorso if you go over your natural stats by 3 for Customized?

SR4a p.343

No you can always customize the limb up to you natural maximum and then you can add 3 levels of enchament with out needing a cyber torso.
So cyber torso is only needed if you want to exceed your natural maximum by more then 3 points.
Yerameyahu
We usually do 'customize to your *actual* stat', none of this magic racial max stuff. smile.gif But yes.
Mäx
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 15 2010, 09:38 PM) *
We usually do 'customize to your *actual* stat', none of this magic racial max stuff. smile.gif But yes.

Heh, my Sasha would love that as her agility is over natural max, so she would need 1 level less of enchament to reach her augmented maximum agility. biggrin.gif
Yerameyahu
Ahem, your actual *natural*, of course. smile.gif
Whipstitch
QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 15 2010, 01:53 AM) *
Darn, you post this just a week or so after I deleted my "Crazy cyberlimb" character sheet, figuring I would never have another use for it. The premise was simple enough: Take a human with 1 bod, agi, and str...


That was one of my first SR4 characters back in early '06 before I bothered joining Dumpshock. That was prior to the Augmentation rules, though, so without optimized limbs the values were a bit lower (don't underestimate good ol' fashioned attribute accessories) but the character was still an excellent combat hacker, since back then Hackers were a bit cheaper to top out given that Encephalons and Simsense Boosters weren't around yet. That was pre-Arsenal and FFBA too, so there was a "Wait, you have how much armor?" moment with the GM, since he really didn't expect to see anything over an 11. A 6 Edge hacker who was virtually immune to pistol grade weaponry was a sight to see prior to SM's Voodoo madness, so relatively speaking the modern tin-man is if anything at a disadvantage compared to my old one. So I've long argued that cyberlimbs have been playable. They just are a niche item that rely on a rather controversial mechanic and suffer by not fitting people's expectations for a cyberpunk game. They really are best for people who are not in good enough physical condition to rely on their meat stats for hard physical activity, but the cyberpunk style handbook makes many people wish they also made more sense as an accessory for their big bad ass ork samurai-- which isn't terribly practical, given you've already paid through the nose for attributes. Lopping off an arm to fit a gyromount and a nanohive can work well, but it's not really for everybody.
Karoline
Mr. Tank
[ Spoiler ]

And that was with fairly minimal effort towards optimization. In fact, I think I'd redone it with an eye towards optimization but can't find that.
Whipstitch
If I was going to min-max a 4 limbs and a torso guy, I wouldn't actually make him a samurai and go all-out on combat, since I think I may have a better idea that I've been toying with as my next prime runner candidate (mostly because I'm stuck GMing 24/7 now rather than playing)-- a combat rigger. With Biocompatibility you can build a 400 bp legal character that has all standard grade limbs, a control rig and just enough bio index left over for a Pain Editor and Cerebral Boosters. And thanks to the capacity rules, you can still have a Nanohive and Control Rig Boosters as a nice consolation prize for your lack of Simsense Boosters and Reaction enhancing 'ware. Throw in the usual cyberlimb tweaking and you have a freak who can fight well via sheer durability yet has a whole mess of points available for Edge, skills, Born Rich and a nice ride. The best part about all of this is that a walking talking tank of a man is uniquely suited to making Ramming attacks and actually surviving after exploding sixes or rerolled misses. This is particularly delicious since the player's first instinct for killing a guy like that would probably be either Direct Spells or vehicles. Obviously, the latter could end messily.

Honestly, there's only two things that are stopping me from springing such a character on my current group:

1. They're all noobs and he would probably kill them. Funny, but not what I'm looking for right now.

2. I can't decide what to name his stupidly dangerous full-size truck and ram plate combo. I'm leaning towards the Pain Train just because I am awfully close to modelling him after Terry Tate.
klinktastic
Yo whip, what did you have in mind. I'm working up a rigger myself. Check my post here
Karoline
QUOTE (Whipstitch @ Oct 15 2010, 10:07 PM) *
1. They're all noobs and he would probably kill them. Funny, but not what I'm looking for right now.
Never let player deaths stand in the way of an awesome NPC nyahnyah.gif
QUOTE
2. I can't decide what to name his stupidly dangerous full-size truck and ram plate combo. I'm leaning towards the Pain Train just because I am awfully close to modelling him after Terry Tate.

It could be called the 'Hammer' and he could broadcast "It's Hammer time!" whenever he is about to ram someone. And, for double meaning, it could be an old butcher truck that was used to transport - you guessed it, ham nyahnyah.gif
Whipstitch
I might just call it the Meat Wagon. It'd tie in nicely with his introduction. "The name's T-Bone, like the accident."
Saint Sithney
Nice.






...Back to the Redlining discussion, does anyone else think that it's weird that you can redline body or agility?

"Alright arm, you better get super precise now! ..Aaaaagh my heart! That superhumanly tiny correction whilst firing a pistol... has killed me... blech.."
Whipstitch
Hey, if the 28P ramming attack doesn't kill 'em, the puns will.

But yeah, redlining really doesn't make sense aside from strength. Oh well, at least redlining is used so rarely that I can just file that away as an oddity, I guess.
Stahlseele
*nods* redlining has basically become worthless with the damage you suffer from that.
Else it would have been such a cool and awesome cyberpunk like thing to do . .
Whipstitch
As far as Klinktastic's earlier question goes, I'm going to answer here because it's been a while since I worked on the rigger portion of a character. I haven't really done anything but napkin math the 'ware setup requirements I had in mind. I should stress that if you really just want a cost effective chunk of stats, an ork with Restricted Gear: Muscle Toner 4 is probably the way to go for a multi-faceted character. You'll have a LOT more essence leftover to use on things like sweet wired reflexes and tons of muscles. The kind of build I'm talking about ditches the strength and grabs a cybertorso instead of Wired Reflexes-- you can hit an effective Body of 7 that way real easy. Plus, you still have room in all of your limbs to upgrade from Rating 2 cyber armor accessories to Rating 4. The 7 body also makes it pretty easy to get away with using quality non-milspec armor and form fitting body armor combos. That's pretty nice if you can convince your GM that your heavy metal ass is considered less conspicuous than Storm Trooper armor. cyber.gif

Here's the basic loadout I was looking at:

Cyberware:
2 Standard Grade Full Obvious Arms w/ Customized Body 2, Customized Agility 3 as well as Body Acc. 4, Agility Acc.3 and Armor 2. Stats for both arms: Body 9, Agility 9, Strength 3, 4 slots left for later armor upgrades.
2 Standard Grade Full Obvious Legs w/ Customized Body 2, Body Acc. 4 and Armor 2. One limb has a rating 1 nanohive w/ Control Rig Booster 3 installed. Stats for legs: Body 9, Agility 3, Strength 3, 11 & 12 slots left in the legs for further Armor and whatever else you want.
1 Standard Grade Obvious Torso w/ Body Acc. 2 and Armor 2, with 4 slots for future armor upgrades. Stat total: Body 5, Agility 3, Strength 3.
1 Standard Control Rig. Could easily be Alpha if you want.
Total of 10 cyber armor.

That's exactly 6 Essence worth of Cyber, which thankfully works out to 5.4 essence after Bio-compatibility: Cyberware--truly Dunkelzahn's gift to Robocop fans everywhere. So like any self-respecting wannabe cyberzombie, we have to figure out what we can do with that 0.6 Essence-- effectively 1.2 if it's all bioware.* My first choice? A Pain Editor,** which would leave you at 0.45 Essence. You'll need the Restricted Gear quality, but it will now take physical overflow to knock you out, a trick that's pretty nice to have considering this character will typically be demoting conventional weaponry to Stun when he's in full armor. With a Full-Body FFBA suit, Armor Jacket and all pieces of the Securetech PPC system, you'll have 7 Body and 26B/24I ratings out of character creation. And once in play? Well, get the Face to funnel your first 6k nuyen into Rating 4 Cyber Armor accessories and you'll be sitting pretty with 36/34 scores without even wearing milspec armor.

Total cost of this setup: 38 Gear Points, 10 BP for Biocompatibility and another 5 for 1 level of Restricted Gear, for a total of 53 BP. Realistically you're also going to want Born Rich and the full 60 gear points, which still leaves you with a fairly reasonable 85 BP total cost and 110k+ nuyen to work with. Tight for a Rigger, but doable if you stick to the cheaper ground vehicles. On the bright side, you still have 315 BP to spend while having already acquired pretty workable scores in 3 attributes. You can also probably optimize the limbs a bit more aggressively because I opted for accessories here and there in part 'cuz they're cheap.



*Now, amusingly enough, this means that if you went with Born Rich and ditched the Rigger concept you could actually fit Synaptic 2 onto this kinda build. You'd be just like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator! And by that I mean you'd hit the streets naked, because you'll seriously only have like 5k nuyen left out of the 300k pile you started with.

**Funny thing about a Pain Editor and potentially 5 boxes worth of sensory cutoff: technically speaking, you could combine all of that with the Low Pain Tolerance Quality. It would even sort of make sense: the character presumably could have gotten used to filtering away all boo-boos as a matter of course. Feel free to make a "Bleed my own blood!?" comment if someone manages to actually hurt this character. Of course, you might not want to even touch such min-maxy quality/gear combo given that you're already trying to slip a 20+ armor sheet through. Your GM might try bludgeoning you to death with his sack of dice on principle.
Stahlseele
Hmm actually how does this sensory cutoff work exactly?
Whipstitch
Sensory cutoff isn't all that great. Basically, you can ignore a box of Physical Condition monitor damage for the purposes of determining wound penalties, but on the downside you suffer somewhere between a -1 to -3 penalty for the use of that limb. It'd really be the Pain Editor and the fact that Low Pain Tolerance is worth a full 10 bp that'd make it worth considering. It's a boon for a Rigger or Hacker though. You can get shot up real bad, turn off a bunch of your pained limbs and still perform pretty well in VR. You don't really need your limbs when you're jacked in anyway so just shut those distractions off.
Stahlseele
Ah, i see, thank you for clearing that one up for me.
Karoline
Actually, I thought the penalty only came up if you had to do something that involved a sense of touch. Like working on a motherboard would be more difficult because it is harder to tell when exactly you're touching the electronics, but shooting a gun wouldn't because you don't need to feel for where you are pointing at all.
Stahlseele
Well, you need to feel wether or not you're holding the grip tight enough.
And wether or not you are allready at the click point of the tirgger.
OK, with the event of Smartlink, you don't need to feel that anymore either.
Karoline
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 17 2010, 10:06 AM) *
Well, you need to feel wether or not you're holding the grip tight enough.
And wether or not you are allready at the click point of the tirgger.
OK, with the event of Smartlink, you don't need to feel that anymore either.

Get your grip tight enough, turn off your senses, and don't relax/tense your hand. And honestly, I don't think you're at that much risk of crushing the gun or anything.

And yeah, Smartlink would make it not nearly such a big deal smile.gif
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