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lowendz113
So I've been looking for an affordable way to make a powered exoskeleton.

I saw that there were a couple of threads on this, but they didn't seem to actually make much progress. I'm hoping I'll have better luck smile.gif

Here is my thinking:

I want the suit to be only slightly larger than man sized, think old school iron man (but cool looking). Because of this, I don't think I can justify using a vehicle, which leaves me with drones.
So to get in the drone, I would need to give it the mod, "Extra Entry/Exit Points" 1 Slot.
Obviously it needs 2 Mechanical arms: 4 Slots

Even if moding a drone that already walk upright, this exceeds the max modifications and there isn't even any cool stuff in the drone. The Misuhama stuff, but it is crazy expensive, and far outside of my range. Any thoughts on how to overcome this?

I was thinking maybe doing some hardware checks to get rid of the limitations on the manservant. ---> The debate on manservant mods has already gone down, so lets avoid that if we can. I'm just proposing a potential solution to the slot issue. Manservants already have walker mode and 2 arms. Adding the Entry point for 1 slot would still leave me with 3 to play with. Thoughts?

EDIT* Oh yeah, I also want to try to avoid the military armor if at all possible.
Neraph
Basic Exosuit
[8 Slot Total] Dodge Guardian [8R, 14,000]
[2 Slots] Walker Mode [4, 4,000]
[2 Slot] Mechanical Arm, Full Arm [6, 4,000]
[2 Slot] Mechanical Arm, Full Arm [6, 4,000]
[1 Slot] Turbocharger [4, 5,600]
Av: 8R
Cost: 31,600

That's what's in my Gear document on my laptop. Still room for some armor on that one. Alternatively you can use the Thundercloud Contrail and stick some Special Armor Mods on it also.

Also, you can have the vehicle (loaded with the proper 'softs) do Teamwork Tests using its Sensor Tests to add to your attacking dicepools. Think FPS from Armored Core.
Karoline
QUOTE (lowendz113 @ Oct 15 2010, 12:57 AM) *
I want the suit to be only slightly larger than man sized, think old school iron man (but cool looking). Because of this, I don't think I can justify using a vehicle, which leaves me with drones.


The only difference between a drone and a vehicle is that a drone comes standard with a rigger adaption, and is usually designed to not have a person inside of it (The wheelchair drone being the notable exception).

There is no inherent size difference.

You could work with a modified horseman, since it is at least already designed as a walker.

More practically though would be building something from scratch as opposed to taking a vehicle and modifying it to work as powered armor. Otherwise you're always going to look like a transformer.
Neraph
QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 15 2010, 01:27 AM) *
More practically though would be building something from scratch as opposed to taking a vehicle and modifying it to work as powered armor. Otherwise you're always going to look like a transformer.

Overmod for Pimped Ride. Done.
Jaid
i actually recommend just using the stats for the horseman PMV. stick an advanced cargo module on there and you have one 'arm' already. convert it to legs instead of wheels, give it a second arm, and you've still got a bit of space for toys.
Karoline
QUOTE (Jaid @ Oct 15 2010, 01:35 AM) *
i actually recommend just using the stats for the horseman PMV. stick an advanced cargo module on there and you have one 'arm' already. convert it to legs instead of wheels, give it a second arm, and you've still got a bit of space for toys.

Advanced cargo comes with two arms biggrin.gif
The Jopp
Dont forget that you can use the "similar models" rule to change the horsemans stats.

Add +1 body and reduce acceleration or something. Then you get one additional modification slot.
Neraph
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Oct 15 2010, 12:41 AM) *
Dont forget that you can use the "similar models" rule to change the horsemans stats.

That gets into a really fuzzy area of the rules. Like an "I woke up after a night of drinking with cottonballs and dirty socks in my mouth" kind of fuzzy.
Karoline
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 15 2010, 01:53 AM) *
That gets into a really fuzzy area of the rules. Like an "I woke up after a night of drinking with cottonballs and dirty socks in my mouth" kind of fuzzy.

How so? The book says 'You can purchase similar models which have slightly different stats'. I don't see why you couldn't buy the FunTime Walker instead of the Horseman and get a heftier but slower design.

Also, for exosuit, you might want to consider just using heavy military armor. Throw on the strength enhancements, and it is almost identical.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 15 2010, 01:18 AM) *
Basic Exosuit
[8 Slot Total] Dodge Guardian [8R, 14,000]
[2 Slots] Walker Mode [4, 4,000]
[2 Slot] Mechanical Arm, Full Arm [6, 4,000]
[2 Slot] Mechanical Arm, Full Arm [6, 4,000]
[1 Slot] Turbocharger [4, 5,600]
Av: 8R
Cost: 31,600

That's what's in my Gear document on my laptop. Still room for some armor on that one. Alternatively you can use the Thundercloud Contrail and stick some Special Armor Mods on it also.

Also, you can have the vehicle (loaded with the proper 'softs) do Teamwork Tests using its Sensor Tests to add to your attacking dicepools. Think FPS from Armored Core.


Any particular reason a Dodge Guardian and not, say, a Harley?



-k
The Jopp
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2010, 09:16 AM) *
Any particular reason a Dodge Guardian and not, say, a Harley?

-k


Because if you use a harley then you get a transforming Macross combat armor bike...
The Jopp
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 15 2010, 06:53 AM) *
That gets into a really fuzzy area of the rules. Like an "I woke up after a night of drinking with cottonballs and dirty socks in my mouth" kind of fuzzy.


Well, to be fair, it's in the book but you'll need the GM's consent.

QUOTE
At the gamemaster’s discretion, you may also apply slight changes in the
game stats. Th is shouldn’t exceed more than 1 point up- or downwards (or up to 20% in case of Acceleration and Speed), and for every advantage there should be an appropriate disadvantage.
Yerameyahu
Right: any changes in similar models should be both very limited, and counterbalanced.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 15 2010, 03:28 PM) *
Right: any changes in similar models should be both very limited, and counterbalanced.


but i can see how GM's can be a bit annoyed over people increasing body or armour as the favourite attributes - especially body to increase how many mods they can squeeze inside.

Still, I see a reason for it as it could simply be that the vehicle is just a bit bulkier.

It's get a bit jiffy when you go down to Body 1 minidrones who gets body 2 but perhaps they are just of a sturdier design and not bigger.
sabs
Wouldn't MilSpec Armor be more in line with what he's looking for?

A horseman with walker and arms.. that's more 'Mecha' and less 'Ironman style' Powered armor.
Neraph
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2010, 04:16 AM) *
Any particular reason a Dodge Guardian and not, say, a Harley?



-k

The Guardian comes with a weapon mount for free, and since it's already got a base armor higher than its body the Accel/Speed reduction is built-in to the base stats.
KarmaInferno
Fair enough.

I'd throw in a sidecar, even with the speed hit. +3 Body is pretty nice.

But I suppose it'd be awkward trying to justify it in an exosuit design. Mebbe as a backpack?


[edit, corrected as I thought the Guardian had a 6 Body]



-k
Neraph
Dodge Guardian and Harley Scorpion have the same body though don't they?

Now a reason to take the Thundercloud Contrail over either is the mod slots, but that's a different case to make.

EDIT: Some good overmod penalties would be "There's only one rider allowed" and "There's no Speed value - it can only be used in Tactical Combat," both of which are (IMHO) significantly damaging to allow maybe 2 OM's each instead of 1.
lowendz113
My only issue with the motorcycle mods is that I would basically be riding the exo not inside of it.
lowendz113
Oh, and the reason I want it to be a vehicle/drone instead of military armor, is I am a technomancer. With a vehicle/drone I can do fun things that a suit cannot.
KarmaInferno
The closest thing you can probably get to an Iron Man suit using drones in Shadowrun is an Otomo, with all the mod slots used to create a driver's compartment. Even then it will take some GM handwaving.



-k
KarmaInferno
ack, double post
sabs
What about a Horseman with armor mods, and arms with guns, and an armored rigger cocoon with valkyrie mod?
KarmaInferno
That'd be more of a mini-mecha than an exoskeleton.

Then again, you could do what I did.

Anthroform drone INSIDE a Horseman.

smile.gif



-k
lowendz113
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2010, 11:02 AM) *
That'd be more of a mini-mecha than an exoskeleton.

Then again, you could do what I did.

Anthroform drone INSIDE a Horseman.

smile.gif



-k


LOL!! That's awesome.
Summerstorm
Hm... getting into this thread too...

Well... i think they never retconned anything from previous versions, right? So technically the JIM-Exoskeleton (Arsenal 2060) still exists, just isn't converted. Which i am going to do now. Hm, let's see:

Standart JIM
Body: 5
Armor: 9
System: 1
Sensor: -
Handling: -1
Accel/speed: Like pilot.
Standard Upgrades:
Sealed, Life Support 2 (20 Hour air supply) , Extreme Environment Mod (pressure safe to 600 meter), Mechanical full arms/legs
Avail: 12, 20000 NY

Upgrade JIM
Body: 8
Armor: 9
System: 1
Sensor: -
Handling: -1
Accel/speed: Like pilot.
Sealed, Life Support 2 (20 Hour air supply) , Extreme Environment Mod (pressure safe to 600 meter), Mechanical full arms/legs, Rigger Adaptation.
Avail: 14, 32000 NY

Done. At least that was the thing our rigger ran around with *g*. And it should be available since it DOES serve a purpose. (Underwater exploration and construction). Also... can't you just ask your gm to get you something, Why do you need to modify some existing vehicle.( I know it is just for comparisons in ratings/values) But can't you just make something up? The modification rules are too rigid. Just use your own creativity. (Or use the vehicle design rules from 3rd edition and then convert it to fourth).
Neraph
QUOTE (lowendz113 @ Oct 15 2010, 09:39 AM) *
My only issue with the motorcycle mods is that I would basically be riding the exo not inside of it.

Right, if you have little imagination. I think it'd take the form of the pre-HULC over some wierd crotch-rocket with arms and legs.
Yerameyahu
Or if you have enough imagination to *not* assume everything suits your purposes. wink.gif

It's reasonable to assume that a Walker motocycle is quadripedal, as well. Certainly, the orientation of the seated pilot would fit that.
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 15 2010, 03:19 PM) *
Or if you have enough imagination to *not* assume everything suits your purposes. wink.gif

It's reasonable to assume that a Walker motocycle is quadripedal, as well. Certainly, the orientation of the seated pilot would fit that.

So that would make it an ATV, right?
Yerameyahu
It'd be pretty good on rough terrain. smile.gif I'm just pointing out that it's not very realistic to just assume that your motorcycle is closed-cockpit, and that the controls/seating/everything magically converts to a biped-mecha-friendly configuration. Also, (even if it were both of those things) it would be a cockpit-capsule (the size of a whole metahuman) with mechanical arms and legs, not an exoskeleton at all.
Neurosis
Heavy Milspec Armor is this already. : )
Yerameyahu
Yeah, but the OP wants it to be a 'vehicle' so he can use Technomancer cheats on it. biggrin.gif
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 15 2010, 05:50 PM) *
Yeah, but the OP wants it to be a 'vehicle' so he can use Technomancer cheats on it. biggrin.gif

Of course at that point, I'm not sure why you would bother with an exosuit instead of just grabbing a drone while you sit in a nice safe van or building or something.
Summerstorm
So you can see the faces you smash in with your own eyes... (Also wifi-retardent wallpaper/cage/jamming)
Karoline
Thats what cameras and ECCM/repeater drones are for.
Summerstorm
Isn't the same... and the repeater doesn't work so good. (What if the door has to be closed after 10 seconds or an alarm sounds. Somebody finds the repeater, the building has this tacnet/wifi scanning thing and find them automatically? And jamming takes them down too) Also being THERE is always better than waiting it out.

EDIT: Ah well, back to the topic, i guess.
Thing is: to get your hands on a minimech you either have:
To find a rationale why they exists. (Where is a human form with more bulk and the limits of a drone, but requiring a pilot at site of use)

OR saying: DAMN it is still ÜBERCOOL, i will build the shit myself. (Which should easily be possible, with the tools and time)
Karoline
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Oct 15 2010, 05:04 PM) *
EDIT: Ah well, back to the topic, i guess.
Thing is: to get your hands on a minimech you either have:
To find a rationale why they exists. (Where is a human form with more bulk and the limits of a drone, but requiring a pilot at site of use)

Very true. SR skipped the phase in technological development where they had powered suit capabilities but not high grade pilot/remote control capabilities.
QUOTE
OR saying: DAMN it is still ÜBERCOOL, i will build the shit myself. (Which should easily be possible, with the tools and time)

Easily possible, but also easily difficult.

Actually, now that I think about it, weren't there rules on construction exoskeletons somewhere? So that workers could lift heavy loads easily but didn't have to rely on drones? Maybe it was just mention of without actual rules. I could be thinking of another system, but that seems unlikely, as I don't play that many future based systems.
Summerstorm
The one cheap large drone is a construction robot. May be able to house a pilot. But it was spiderlike, not bipedal. Ah yes... the "Beaver"

Well, i would really point back to the JIM. The whole underwater thing makes sense, i guess. (worse radio connection / need someone down there, has superstrength and armor and is pretty cheap)

EDIT: Ah and building your own stuff: yeah hard, of course. But the standard rigger-runner is normaly insanely competent maybe has access to a facility with multiple drones for help, and nexi with planning/designing agents. Give him a year (or maybe just a few months) and he might have something.
Karoline
Yeah, wasn't thinking of the Beaver. I could have sworn I read something about construction exosuits specifically designed to be piloted.
crash2029
The thing about vehicles/drones/guns in SR is that they are somewhat abstract. Those statistics that are listed for any one item are probably the same as hundreds of others that only differ in trivial ways. For example the Colt 1911 pistol. While you can get actual 1911's from Colt, you can also get exact copies made with or without license from dozens of other companies. Or you can go for the countless other .45ACP pistols that are functionally identical yet differ in cosmetic details. My point is that when you see a stat line for an Americar or a Predator remember that there are countless other models that are alike in function but different in name or look. So when you convert a vehicle into an exosuit don't assume the suit looks like a Transformer or some Franken-vehicle monstrosity.

Thats enough sermonizing for now. In conclusion I present three previously posted ideas for powered armor.
QUOTE (me @ Jun 26 2010, 06:03 PM) *
Mako Bulwark Battlesuit
The Bulwark battlesuit is Mako's first entry into the field of military-grade powered assist armor. It incorporates all of the latest toys from the boys at Mako labs. This suit of armor will survive longer than the wearer, it is so durable. And with our patent-pending Firelink smartlink software integrated this suit can dish it as well as it can take it. Mako-when the going gets tough, the tough get Mako!

Game Rules
Heavy Military Armor w/helmet-30000 nuyen.gif
mobility upgrade 3 +7500 nuyen.gif
strength upgrade 3 +4500 nuyen.gif
articulated weapon arm +3000 nuyen.gif
foot anchor +3000 nuyen.gif

B/I 18/16 | Capacity 17/20 | Avail you wish | Price 48000 nuyen.gif

-

Mako Dutchman Flight Suit
The Dutchman Flight Suit is an innovation in the field of mobile infantry deployment. This is a suit of armor that can grant your infantry the mobility to truly compete in today's battlefield. Our proprietary Updraft turbofan technology allows a man portable unit that can outfly even some autogyros! When your soldiers have this at their disposal they will always have the high ground. Mako- above the rest!

Game Rules
Lockheed Sparrow-body 4, armor 2, 19500 nuyen.gif
armor 8pts, 1 slot, +1600
personal armor 10pts, 2 slots, +5000
2 mechanical arms, 4 slots, +8000, +8000 (overmod)

Handling +1 | Accel 15/40 | Speed 90 | Pilot 3 | Armor 8 | Sensor 1 | Avail 16R | Price 42100 nuyen.gif

-

Mako Behemoth Mecha
It's a Mako Mecha, need we say more?

Game Rules
hyundai shin-hyung-slots 14, body 10, armor 5, 17000 nuyen.gif
walker mode, 2 slots, +5000
basic rigger cocoon, 1 slot, +1500
armor 20pts, 1 slot, +4000
2 mechanical arms, 4 slots, +8000
weapon mount (reinforced, flexible, remote), 3 slots, +6500

Handling +3 | Accel 10/22 | Speed 80 | Pilot 1, Body 10 | Armor 20 | Avail 24F | Price 42000
Stahlseele
Fun Fact:
JIM-Suits were what the Battletech Clans based their Elemental Battle-Power-Armor on.
Neraph
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 15 2010, 01:19 PM) *
It's reasonable to assume that a Walker motocycle is quadripedal, as well. Certainly, the orientation of the seated pilot would fit that.

If you want to be like that it'd actually be easier to say it's bipedal like a two-legged dog - basically one leg per wheel. Cars would also be quadripedal under this thinking.

See, without real guidance of rules, I tend to allow characters to make whatever cosmetic changes they want to their characters without bashing them over the head with other interpretations whenever possible. For example, it makes no sense at all to have a motorcycle that has two arms and two legs added to it that increases its bulk massively (you added arms, legs, and a completely separate area where the metahuman is). It makes more sense, actually, to use the same body and modifications to replicate similar objects that we have in the real life, right now. In fact, if anything, that penalizes the players since they have to pay mod slots to build what should already exist.
Yerameyahu
smile.gif That's not what 'makes sense' means. You're talking about 'is easier' or 'fits the player's intention', but certainly not 'makes sense'. The problem is that you're not talking about cosmetic changes. A motorcycle isn't just a pile of stats, to manipulate randomly. If the intent is to create something utterly unlike a motorcycle, don't use a motorcycle. Yes, the vehicle rules are sadly lacking, and you can't create anything wholly new at all.

Anyway, I didn't add a separate area for the rider, nor any arms. I said that a motorcycle is a horizontal vehicle with a forward-facing rider straddling the seat; if you convert it to Walker, it doesn't stop being any of those things, and gets the reasonable 4 legs. In fact, I didn't even say the rider was in an enclosed canopy at all. I think it's a possibility, but (vastly) less likely than an open-air seat.

I'm not trying to crush your dreams or stifle creativity. I'm just saying that you generally shouldn't handwave away major issues like fundamentally altering the vehicle with mods that don't do what you're making them do. wink.gif
lowendz113
Well the rules for walker mode say "...the walker option can feature multiple legs, with a configuration similar to that of an insect or spider, while larger drones or vehicles are typically made bipedal."

So I think either option would be fine.

The only issue with the motorcycle going biped is where you would sit.

This can be easily over come with a rigger cocoon.

At that point this thing is a full on mech though.
TheScrivener
SURPRISE! Baby assassin robot in your face.

Creepy little Akiyamas...
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (lowendz113 @ Oct 28 2010, 03:06 PM) *
Well the rules for walker mode say "...the walker option can feature multiple legs, with a configuration similar to that of an insect or spider, while larger drones or vehicles are typically made bipedal."

So I think either option would be fine.

The only issue with the motorcycle going biped is where you would sit.

This can be easily over come with a rigger cocoon.

At that point this thing is a full on mech though.


When someone says "motorcycle with walker mode", I think "metal bird", not "robot" or "mech".

smile.gif



-k
Yerameyahu
Perhaps that refers to larger vehicles *designed* with Walker Mode. It certainly makes no sense for a motorcycle, car, truck, etc. to be bipedal. smile.gif
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 28 2010, 06:48 PM) *
Perhaps that refers to larger vehicles *designed* with Walker Mode. It certainly makes no sense for a motorcycle, car, truck, etc. to be bipedal. smile.gif

Someone obviously didn't watch enough Transformers as a kid.
KarmaInferno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00QhWEsg8fs




-k
Shaikujin
Since we are on this topic, anyone remember the SR novel where Talon had an ally spirit which had an alternate manifesting form of a motorcycle?

Since reading that, I've always had this idea where I can give an ally spirit a bike form, and a military armour form. This should allow the spirit to convert between motorcycle form and military armour form. Like the Mospeada Cyclone bike that karmainferno linked to above.

Saves parking space, never worry about losing your transport. Never worry about running out of fuel. You can "Call" your bike to you anywhere you are, even inside a building.

Better yet, you can "Call" your armour to you like the D&D magic property, or have the ally spirit pop back into astral space.



Fluff-wise, the character will actually still need to buy a bike and a set of military to break apart and reverse engineer it into the ally formula.
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