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WhiskeyJohnny
I'm rolling my first runner for an upcoming game, and, being new to the system, I was looking for some optimization advice. I want to build a combat hacker, someone who can make an effective Hacker/Street Samurai (and/or gunbunny, if that's possible). I'd like to play a human with a high edge, but I'm willing to entertain other possibilities. As far as hacking goes, I envision him doing most of his hacking before the run, probing a system to find weaknesses, creating a backdoor account that he can exploit during the run if need be, and obtaining building plans, video feed, and other tactically useful information. Perhaps he'll have a couple of drones for reconnaissance/fire support. That said, I'd like him to be able to go toe-to-toe with spiders/IC if need be, but I don't want him to be in full VR all the time (at least not during the run).

As far as how to get my skills, I was thinking about using Active Skillsofts to shore up what I can't get a chargen. That brought me to cyber- and bioware, as I understand I need Skillwires or Move-by-Wire in order to run Skillsofts. This of course brought me to the question of essence cost reduction, as I suspect I'm going to be running a heavily cyber- and biowared character. What can I do to reduce the essence cost of my wares, especially at chargen? Can I run cyberware and bioware at the same time, or is it of greater benefit to focus on one or the other?

The other things about this character that are necessary would be: enough social skills to not make a fool of himself, maybe to act as an off-face, because the campaign is supposed to have a strong social element and enough artistic ability to make him a talented painter, for fluff reasons. Additionally, I only have access to the core rulebook, Runner's Companion, and possibly Augmentation.

I also would love a rundown of the basics of Shadowrun 4e optimization. I understand that it is more efficient to buy your stats at chargen and diversify skills as you improve, is this accurate? How many dice should I have in my dice pools? How many initiative passes should I have?

Thanks!
Yerameyahu
Hackers only need a commlink and programs. Tiny bit of skill, no logic. smile.gif Enjoy. Without Arsenal and Unwired, though, you're not going to be using a lot of the toys (on the other hand, simpler and cheaper to play that way).
WhiskeyJohnny
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 6 2010, 09:02 PM) *
Hackers only need a commlink and programs. Tiny bit of skill, no logic. smile.gif Enjoy. Without Arsenal and Unwired, though, you're not going to be using a lot of the toys (on the other hand, simpler and cheaper to play that way).


Why do they only need a tiny bit of skill and no logic? Do you mean that the program will do the job well enough?
Aku
its all skill + program for hacking
WhiskeyJohnny
Yes, but that would suggest (to me at least) that I need at least average skill (and a really good program) in order to be an effective hacker. Is that not the case?
Yerameyahu
It depends on how effective, really. You can be pretty great with 2+spec or so, and rating 5-6 programs. Yes, you can squeeze some more dice out, but pretty effective even to start. Call it 70k? It's really just an add-on to whatever else you're doing.

Augmentation:
PuSHeD helps, grab that. If you have a cyberlimb at all, there's also a nanite that acts like PuSHeD.
Fix-it
resisting having your brains come out of your ears against a Black Hammer attack is Willpower, so don't use it as a dump stat.

writing your own software is dependant on logic. writing malware is hacking+logic.

so if you just wanna script-kiddie, you just need lots of cash.
WhiskeyJohnny
What is the benefit to writing your own code? I'd like for my character to be able to do that from a flavor point of view, but is it necessary mechanically to make a good hacker?
Yerameyahu
Depending on what rules you use, you can save some money by spending a *lot* of time. smile.gif
PresentPresence
Or a good Agent. wink.gif

Even with just SR4a:

Transys Avalon Commlink - Response 4, Signal 4; 5,000
Novatech Navi OS - Firewall 3, System 4; 1,500
R4 Upgraded Firewall; 2,000
7 R4 Common Programs (All of 'em ); 2,800
13 R3 Hacking Programs (All of 'em but ECCM); 19,500
R4 Agent; 10,000
Total Cost: 40,800

That's just 9 BP and no Restricted Gear! It's true that Unwired has options that can make Agents even more powerful, but they seem pretty useful even without it. A metahuman takes 64 BP for the skills (80 for the groups) an Agent has for 2 BP. Yeah, they don't have the bonuses a hacker can get through wares and whatnot, but I believe it's difficult to find a balance between two roles who are often minmaxed in a totally opposite manner. Does this go against the idea of a "combat hacker" character? Maybe, but at least this way your teammates won't have to buy the gear. Take the Electronics skill group if you must, but you probably won't even need it.

And if you did decide to get some extra dice:

Novatech Airware Commlink - Response 3, Signal 3; 1,250
R5 Upgraded Response 4,000
Iris Orb OS - Firewall 3, System 3; 1,000
R5 Upgraded Firewall; 2,500
R5 Upgaded System; 2,500
7 R5 Common Programs (All of 'em); 3,500
13 R3 Hacking Programs (All of 'em but ECCM); 65,000
R5 Agent; 12,500
Total Cost: 89,720

That's 18 BP in gear plus 5 BP for the Restricted Gear quality for the Agent, for a whopping grand total of 23 BP, and metahumans can't even take more than 2 skills at R5 like an Agent can, and if they took the two R5 skills at chargen and raised the other two with karma, it would cost them 72 BP and 20 Karma. As compared to the Agent, who takes 8 BP including the RG quality. Sure, this sucks up 35.88% of your starting gear pool, but I'm sure a sammy can make do with 160,280 new ones.
You should also ask your GM about the Agent Adaptability Autosoft for just 1,500 - it basically adds three dice to that nasty ol' secret Agent Rating + Response test that your GM can roll on you practically whenever they feel like it. wink.gif Unfortunately, it is listed in Unwired, so maybe he won't allow it.

Amirite?
Yerameyahu
Well, there's a lot that Agents (as non-sapient) can't do, but yes. smile.gif
Makki
agents don't get +2 dice for VR, that's a drawback

QUOTE (WhiskeyJohnny @ Nov 7 2010, 05:11 AM) *
I'd like to play a human with a high edge, but I'm willing to entertain other possibilities.
I have one, and he's at first the face, but he's trying to become a hacker, although he's somewhat afraid of cybercombat.

What can I do to reduce the essence cost of my wares, especially at chargen?
augmentation has some qualities for this

Can I run cyberware and bioware at the same time, or is it of greater benefit to focus on one or the other?
you should do so, as it's more essence effective, reread the passage in the core book

How many dice should I have in my dice pools?
for average campaigns: 15 in your spec, 10-12 in some other stuff and no less than 5 in anything else. But with high edge you can do everything in the game anyway, so just don't care and get every skill at 1 for not defaulting ^^

How many initiative passes should I have?
1 is enough for non-combat chars. don't get skill-wires, as you can't use edge on skillsofts
PoliteMan
I would recommend Move-by- Wire II, which gives you enough IP to hack in AR and fight, as well as the Init boost that most Sams need (+ free skillwires). PuSHeD is also great. Get a cyber-limb and stick a nanohive into it, you may not want to start out with this as it's expensive but Nanoware is the best way to get big boosts, especially mental ones, without using a lot of essence. In Augmentation, get biocompatability for cyberware, it'll save you about 0.4 essence.

Go ahead and put a bit into Logic (don't dump) but remember that you should be aiming to add a lot of stuff that aims to boost your logic linked skill rolls, so it isn't critical even if you want to do Logic-y stuff.

The big problem I've run into so far with my combat hacker is that Hacking costs money and you need (or really want) to save space for Encephelon. Encephelon and a decent IP booster together are 4.5 essence, ignoring anything other cyberware you want, which means most of combat ware needs to be bioware. Once you've bought your expensive deck and expensive IP booster (usually 90-100,000 nuyen) you're stuck buying a bunch of expensive bioware without a ton of money. Offense isn't usually a problem, Muscle Toner is way too cheap in my book, but don't expect to be able to soak damage the way a pure Sam can.

A note on why you want Encephelon. There's 4 ways to get bonuses to Matrix actions beyond skills and programs that I know of: PuSHeD, Encephelon, Nanoware, and Reflex Recorder. PuSHeD is great, as is Reflex Recorder (they're cheap bioware, which means that you usually get them for half essence) but together they're only +2 together. Nanoware is a great +3 except for that annoying bit where they stop working in stressful situation, meaning either they'll crap out when you really need them or you're going to develop a drug addiction. The last one, Encephelon, is a +3, no hidden problems, but it's 1.5 essence. Ignore it at character creation if you want but don't pretend you can go back and pick it up, saving up 1.5 essence through alpha/betaware just isn't happening.
Zyerne
For a combat hacker, being an off-face as well is gonna be tricky as charisma is a likely dump stat.

However...

How about an adept? Get magic 5, spend 4 points on Increased reflexes 1, Improved Ability Blades, Cybercombat and Hacking, all at +2 and Boost Strength 1, with 0.25 points to spend and 1 getting lost to cyber/bio

Get a partial cyberlimb, throw in a implanted commlink and sim module. Maybe get muscle toner. With the limb already in place you can add a nano-hive when funds allow without worrying about the essence hit.

It'll be an extremely focussed build, especially if you go for high edge as well, but you can grow into the off-face role by picking up kinesics later on.
klinktastic
You can do a hacker + face or combat hacker, but its really hard to do combat + hacker + face. I'd second the adept route. Its only .25 power points per bonus to all skills except combat ones.

If you wanna go to 'wares route, I'd find out how your GM treats cyberlimbs. If you don't care of extranous skills besides combat and hacking, you can go for a very crappy meat body and put on 4 customized limbs and get your 2 attributes up to 8s pretty easily. Then you can add fun stuff your limbs like retractable spurs for melee, gyro mount for recoil comp, nanohive for nano boosting, armor in each limb (which stacks giving you 8/8 inherent armor) and anything else. It eats up a lot of cash and essense, but can be very worth it.

I reason I say ask you GM is that some will like you use the attribute of the arm for whatever it is you're trying to do. So you customize your limbs to flavor based on his opinion. Remember to leave a little capacity to add more armor later.
Zyerne
Also, regarding race, Ork might be a better option. You could dumpstat str and body, take human looking and pretend it's human. The character could even think it's human.

For more funsies, you could take prejudice against Orks. biggrin.gif
WhiskeyJohnny
It's more important for me to be good at Combat + Hacking rather than the face role, and if doing all three would stretch me too thin, then I'll drop the face aspect and grow into it when karma permits.

I'm not sure about going the Adept route, it's enough work just learning the system and the rules for hacking (it's simple in concept but there's a lot to remember) without learning the rules for magic as well, but I'll look into it. I didn't think that route would work because I planned to have a lot of 'wares, and I know that any hits to your essence reduce your magic by a similar amount. Do Adept abilities make up for the lack of 'ware? I understand they can get more IPs and such, but I didn't think they made for good hackers (of course, that's just a first-blush assessment).

From an aesthetic perspective, I'd rather not have cyberlimbs, but that could be changed if they become necessary to fill the roles of street sam and hacker. I'd like for this guy to be mostly intact, and augmented, rather than having wholesale replacement of various body parts.

Concerning going Ork: I'd thought about it, or possibly Elf (for the bonuses to Agility and Charisma), but if I can pull it off as human, that's the way I'd want to go.
Zyerne
You don't need to know the magic rules to play an adept, about the only power I listed that has a rule other than "add dice to this" is Attribute Boost.

As to making good hackers, they are the only people I know that can get extra dice directly to hacking or cybercombat and yes, their powers can make up for a lack of 'ware.
klinktastic
If you are not going to take cyberlimbs, then going adept is probably your best bet.

So 90% of hacking is your hacking skill + program rating. Most of the time, your attributes don't have shit to do with it. With adepts, you use powerpoints to pump your technical skills (hacking, cyber combat, etc) which can give you a very nice boost. Adepts make you very solid in the hacking game because its cheaper & easier to pump non-combat skills than combat skills or attributes.

If you wanted, you could get a synapse booster for +1 IP, taking your magic from 5 to 4 (add other wares to taste), then use your 4 power point to pump up your skills.

Honestly the adept side of magic is really easy to learn...I mean really easy.

If you need help making characters, use the spreadsheet found HERE

EDIT - Cyber limbs will make you 1000% better in combat, adept will make you much better hacker. Remember, its easier to become a rigger as you already are good on the hacking/matrix skills. You could, do hacker, rigger, and face.
Whipstitch
QUOTE (WhiskeyJohnny @ Nov 6 2010, 10:11 PM) *
I'd like to play a human with a high edge, but I'm willing to entertain other possibilities.



Edge is a great attribute for Hackers and I virtually always soft cap it when building one. For one thing, it's flexible aside from the limited number of uses, and in the case of a Hacker, being able to just straight up toss 6 more dice into the pool and watch them explode is one of the single greatest advantages a human being can have over a high rating Agent. I sorta like it from a fluff perspective as well. Technology has come a long way, but apparently code still can't keep up with a human brain that cranks itself into overdrive or even just a hacker who has a special trick for a certain "brand" of IC.
Karoline
Quick question. Do you only have access to those mentioned books because those are the only ones allowed, or because you don't have others? Important to know because we might be able to throw some choice bits from the other books at you (like the cheap thing that gives you an extra IP in the matrix from Unwired)
WhiskeyJohnny
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 7 2010, 01:14 PM) *
Quick question. Do you only have access to those mentioned books because those are the only ones allowed, or because you don't have others? Important to know because we might be able to throw some choice bits from the other books at you (like the cheap thing that gives you an extra IP in the matrix from Unwired)


Those are the only books we have, but if there are really choice pieces I may be able to get the .pdfs allowed.
Zyerne
It's also, unfortunately, 5 BP for Restricted Gear in a build that seems like it's going to be incredibly points tight however it's done.
klinktastic
I guess, I'd like to know how good at combat do you want to be? Do you want to be good offensively? If so, one firearm skill is all you need (probably longarms or autos). Melee might be too hard to do, because you're not going to have BPs for strength and agility. That means you can probably go adept with choice 'wares. If you want durability as well, then you gotta cyber up the limbs. With 4 customized limbs, you can get 8s in Body, STR, and AGI without it costing too much. Then you could go melee and some firearms as well. So define how competent you want to be in combat.
Karoline
Oh, one more question. SR4 or SR4A? That's important, because if you didn't know, the cost of activesofts went waaaay up in SR4A, which causes real problems for your concept because you'll run into the cash cap really quickly trying to do hacking (cash intensive) and SS (also cash intensive).

Let me look around and play with a few things, see if I can come up with some suggestions for you.
Whipstitch
QUOTE (WhiskeyJohnny @ Nov 6 2010, 10:11 PM) *
I also would love a rundown of the basics of Shadowrun 4e optimization. I understand that it is more efficient to buy your stats at chargen and diversify skills as you improve, is this accurate? How many dice should I have in my dice pools? How many initiative passes should I have?

Thanks!


Not exactly. It's not a matter of skills vs. attributes but rather high ratings vs. low ratings and BP vs. Karma. First off, BP is worth more than Karma, generally speaking. When you're paying for things with BP all incremental improvements are just a flat cost. The cost for bumping a 4 to a 5 costs the same as going from a 1 to a 2. With karma, the cost is the new rating times a multiplier, so things get more expensive the higher you climb. So if you're really looking at getting the most dice for the least points, then ideally any skill or attribute you want at a 4+ is something you'll buy with BP and anything you intend to just keep at a 1-3 should be purchased with Karma. Specializations are also something that ideally you wait until you're in play to purchase since it costs either 2 bp or 2 karma, and as I said earlier, bp is otherwise worth more.

Ultimately though, the point of having dice at all is so you can get through the run with your hide mostly intact. If buying something at a 1 or a 2 with a specialization is going to give you a useful pool* and is likely to really help the team, then you can buy it with a clear conscience. That goes double if you're talking about a skill that cannot be defaulted like Hardware. I've taken Hardware: 1 on a Hermetic Magician before just because I already had a Logic of 7 and nobody else on the 3 man team knew how to slice a maglock. In theory, it would have been cheaper to get it later. In practice, I got us into a warehouse and picked up a "right skills, right time" karma award that helped offset the cost anyway. Being competent has a way of evening things out.


*What constitutes a useful pool tends to vary a lot since the game often works via opposed tests and some skills have a lot more modifiers than others do. Here's how I tend to value pools (note that this is all after modifiers): 5 dice means you should be able to at least help on teamwork tests without glitching. A 7 means you have a decent shot at performing quite a few tasks on your own, and anything above that is pretty good. In general, I don't bother paying for a die unless it helps gets me to around 5 or 7 dice with common modifiers, both good and bad, taken into account.
Zyerne
My only character with wires (from MBW) didn't start with skillsofts, just too expensive.

As to strength, Boost Strength and a katana/monafilament sword will likely give 6S, which while not great, isn't horrid.

If he takes blades at 6, specialises and slaps 2 points of Increase Blades on top, he should be able to do some damage.
klinktastic
Rough attempt at adept hacker:

Human
BOD 4, AGI 4 (6), REA 3 (4), STR 1, CHA 3, INT 3, LOG 4, WIL 5, Edge 5, Magic 5 (4)

Qualities: -35 points of flaws, no positive qualities (not really needed)

Cyber: Math CPU (+2 to E-War), Muscle Toner 2, Sleep Reg (stay up late cracking software), Cybergland (for IP adding combat drugs), PuSHeD (+1 to logic skills - basically computer skill group), Reflex Recorder - Skill Group - Cracking (+1 to hack, cyberwarfare, and e-war).

Magic 4 points: 1.5 points for Improved Reflexes 1 (+1 IP & +1 REA), 1 point for Improved Longarms 2 (+2 to longarms use), .75 points for Improved Hacking 3 (+3 to hacking), and .75 points for Improved Cyberwarfare 3 (+3 to cyberwarfare)

Skills:
Cracking Group 4
Electronics Group 4
Longarms (Snipers) 4/6

Equipment: Tricked out commlink in private mode, then a crappy commlink for public use. All common programs at 6, all hacking programs at 5 (I think availability is limited to 5 out the gate right?)

Hacking: 5 (program rating) + 4 (skill) + 1 (recorder) + 3 (adept power) = 13 dice, 15 in VR
E-War: 5 (program rating) + 4 (skill) + 1 (recorder) + 2 (Math CPU) = 12 dice, 14 in VR
Cyberwar: 5 (program rating) + 4 (skill) + 1 (recorder) + 3 (adept power) = 13 dice, 15 in BR
Longarms (sniper rifle): 6 (agility) + 4 (skill) + 2 (specialization) + 2 (adept power) = 14 dice

Generic Run Concept: Get to sniper spot, pop cram (will last 8 hours), just AR to hack on the fly with 3 IPs and support with sniper fire as needed. If needed, you can go VR hot sim for +2 bonus on matrix skills and another IP if the matrix situation requires. If you can't use snipers for the mission, get some shotguns for close up work, recommend a snub nosed T-250 and a SFAS 22 or Mossberg. This guy won't be very durable, but can provide hacking and shooting.
klinktastic
QUOTE (Zyerne @ Nov 7 2010, 03:42 PM) *
My only character with wires (from MBW) didn't start with skillsofts, just too expensive.

As to strength, Boost Strength and a katana/monafilament sword will likely give 6S, which while not great, isn't horrid.

If he takes blades at 6, specialises and slaps 2 points of Increase Blades on top, he should be able to do some damage.



Or you could forget strength and just roll with a stun baton (6s electric damage regardless of strength). Also it has reach 1 which is nice.
Zyerne
How much Edge does that build have?
klinktastic
Opps sorry about that, it would have 5 edge and 5 magic, reduced to 4 due to 'wares.

Editted the generic character sheet above. Also, you can save some cash by not getting as many programs. I'd also hold off on an agent, which you can build a custom one later, or just go cheap, and get a agent 3 that is limited to scanning and analyzing.

Also, there isn't many BPs left after that. I would skimp on extra gear and stuff, you can hack to steal a ride in game. I'd recommend some extra points into some stealth, influence, and athletics skill groups if possible. But you're going to have some trade offs. Personally, I don't like spending a lot of BPs on cash because cash comes easier than karma in game play. I'd rather have more skills to start.
Yerameyahu
Did you make an adept hacker with the Adept quality? wink.gif
WhiskeyJohnny
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 7 2010, 01:33 PM) *
Oh, one more question. SR4 or SR4A? That's important, because if you didn't know, the cost of activesofts went waaaay up in SR4A, which causes real problems for your concept because you'll run into the cash cap really quickly trying to do hacking (cash intensive) and SS (also cash intensive).

Let me look around and play with a few things, see if I can come up with some suggestions for you.


I've got the SR4, and I'm not sure what the DM is using, so I'll get back to you on if it's the SR4 or SR4A. Would a Technomancer be less cash intensive than a standard Hacker? Perhaps a Technomancer/SS would be a more mechanically sound way to build my concept?

QUOTE (klinktastic @ Nov 7 2010, 02:07 PM) *
Rough attempt at adept hacker:

Human
BOD 4, AGI 4 (6), REA 3 (4), STR 1, CHA 3, INT 3, LOG 4, WIL 5, Edge 5, Magic 5 (4)

Qualities: -35 points of flaws, no positive qualities (not really needed)

Cyber: Math CPU (+2 to E-War), Muscle Toner 2, Sleep Reg (stay up late cracking software), Cybergland (for IP adding combat drugs), PuSHeD (+1 to logic skills - basically computer skill group), Reflex Recorder - Skill Group - Cracking (+1 to hack, cyberwarfare, and e-war).

Magic 4 points: 1.5 points for Improved Reflexes 1 (+1 IP & +1 REA), 1 point for Improved Longarms 2 (+2 to longarms use), .75 points for Improved Hacking 3 (+3 to hacking), and .75 points for Improved Cyberwarfare 3 (+3 to cyberwarfare)

Skills:
Cracking Group 4
Electronics Group 4
Longarms (Snipers) 4/6

Equipment: Tricked out commlink in private mode, then a crappy commlink for public use. All common programs at 6, all hacking programs at 5 (I think availability is limited to 5 out the gate right?)

Hacking: 5 (program rating) + 4 (skill) + 1 (recorder) + 3 (adept power) = 13 dice, 15 in VR
E-War: 5 (program rating) + 4 (skill) + 1 (recorder) + 2 (Math CPU) = 12 dice, 14 in VR
Cyberwar: 5 (program rating) + 4 (skill) + 1 (recorder) + 3 (adept power) = 13 dice, 15 in BR
Longarms (sniper rifle): 6 (agility) + 4 (skill) + 2 (specialization) + 2 (adept power) = 14 dice

Generic Run Concept: Get to sniper spot, pop cram (will last 8 hours), just AR to hack on the fly with 3 IPs and support with sniper fire as needed. If needed, you can go VR hot sim for +2 bonus on matrix skills and another IP if the matrix situation requires. If you can't use snipers for the mission, get some shotguns for close up work, recommend a snub nosed T-250 and a SFAS 22 or Mossberg. This guy won't be very durable, but can provide hacking and shooting.


This sounds pretty good, but a couple of questions and concerns: why spend the BP for Magic 5 when it's just going to drop to 4 due to essence loss? The only other problems I'd have with this build are that my GM doesn't want us to specialize in sniping, and I'm still not sure that an Adept is the way I want to go. Part of that is concept, though it could certainly be adapted to fit magical ability, and the second is my GM isn't sure he wants a lot of magic in our group. But if it's the best way to build him, then I could certainly go that route.

Edit:
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 7 2010, 02:26 PM) *
Did you make an adept hacker with the Adept quality? wink.gif


Did you mean with or without?

And one more thing concerning going the Adept route: if I have 'wares with a non-round essence cost (i.e. 2.4) would I have a maximum of 4 magic or 3.6? If so how would that work?
Glyph
Magic loss rounds down to a whole number. In other words, 2.1 Essence loss still makes you lose three points of Magic. So if you do go that route, you want to get as close to a point of Essence as you can - if you are losing a point of Magic from it, it should be worth it. On the other hand, if you want to buy some more expensive stuff later, 2.1 Essence loss means you can get 0.90 Essence worth of stuff without losing any more Magic.

The adept build needs to have the actual adept quality, as has already been pointed out. Also, skill improvements are limited to skill x 1.5, so those two improved abilities can only be 2, not 3.

Technomancers are not very good if you are doing any kind of hacker/something else builds. They have an entire extra set of skills that they need, as well as complex forms, in addition to requiring good mental stats all around (since they are all used to create the technomancer's virtual persona). What it all adds up to, is that technomancers can usually hack, period, with perhaps the bare minimum of skills needed to get by in other areas.
klinktastic
Techno's run out of BPs to use on stats, since you are limited to 200 points. Also, you need at add another skill group: tasking. Techos use their mental attributes for their matrix stats, so needing to have high physical and high mental stats just doesn't work out well.

If you wanted to go with a cyber sam/hacker, heres a rough concept:

Human
BOD 2 ( 8 )
AGI 1 ( 8 )
REA 4 (5 )
STR 1 (4 )
CHA 3
INT 4
LOG 4
WIL 5
EDGE 5

Qualities: -35 negatives, Born Rich (for 60 bps of cash), Biocompat (cyber), Blackmarket Pipeline

Wares:
Math CPU
Synapse Booster
PuSHeD
Skill Recorder Group (Cracking)
Sleep Regulator
2 Full Arms w/ Custom body 3, custom agi 3, armor 2, body 4, agi 4 (arms have body 10, agility 10, strength 3, and armor 2)
2 Full Arms w/ Custom body 3, custom agi 3, custom str 2, armor 2, body 3, strenght 2, agi 4 (legs have body 9, agi 10, strength 7, and armor 2)

All the limbs have room to add extra goodies in later. Recommending nanohive, grip feet, hydralic jacks (for jumping) or skimmer disks.

Gear: pretty much the same, but less hacking softwares because of the synapse booster is so expensive.

Skill:
Cracking Group 4
Electonrics Group 4
Autos (SMGs) 4/6

Hacking & Cyberwar: 4 (skill) + 5 (software rating) + 1 (skill recorder) = 10 dice, 12 in VR
E-War: 4 (skill) + 5 (software) + 1 (skill recorder) + 2 (Math CPU) = 12 dice, 14 in VR
SMGs: 10 (cyberarms' agility) + 4 (skill) + 2 (specialization) + 2 (smartlink) = 18 dice

Out of the box, this character has 8/8 armor. Ridiculous physical and mental stats. Definitely have some left over points for various other skill groups like Athletics and Stealth. With agility of 8, defaulting on most physical skills isn't horrible. Recommending to get athletics group fairly high, then specialize gymnastics with "dodge". Don't forget you can wear additional body armor and it stacks with your cyberlimp armor.
Zyerne
Resonance is also linked to Essence, so Technomancer/Sam isn't gonna work.

You could specialise in any weapon skill you liked, you wouldn't have to stick with longarms at all. If I put a build together, it'd be Blades(Swords). A firearm skill is probably a better option but your subtopic says swordsman, so...

As to buying the magic, with (upto) 1 point of essence loss, you'd lose 1 point of magic, so it's whatever you buy minus whatever you lose through cyber/bio. As to the rounding question, you lose magic in full points so in your example it'd be max of 3.
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 7 2010, 03:26 PM) *
Did you make an adept hacker with the Adept quality? wink.gif

From the looks of it, yes he did biggrin.gif
Zyerne
If anyone brought that cybered character to my table, I'd assault cannon with extreme prejudice.
klinktastic
QUOTE (Glyph @ Nov 7 2010, 04:49 PM) *
The adept build needs to have the actual adept quality, as has already been pointed out. Also, skill improvements are limited to skill x 1.5, so those two improved abilities can only be 2, not 3.

Technomancers are not very good if you are doing any kind of hacker/something else builds. They have an entire extra set of skills that they need, as well as complex forms, in addition to requiring good mental stats all around (since they are all used to create the technomancer's virtual persona). What it all adds up to, is that technomancers can usually hack, period, with perhaps the bare minimum of skills needed to get by in other areas.



Sorry, I read base skill x 1.5 to be 4 x 1.5 = 6, so 3 for each seems fine to me. If I am reading it incorrectly, then you can drop both those to 2, and take improved physical skill gymnastics (as a replacement for dodge).

Techno's make good hackers and good riggers, not just hackers. They are decent at doing the hacker, rigger, face combo.
klinktastic
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 7 2010, 04:56 PM) *
From the looks of it, yes he did biggrin.gif



Yes sorry, the spread sheet I use don't include adept in the qualities section. But inherently to be an adept, you have to take the quality.
klinktastic
sorry about that
klinktastic
wow triple post.....
Glyph
Reflex recorders work for physical and combat skills only. Logic-related skills can be boosted by PuSHeD (which the build already has) or by an encephalon. Both of which are pricey, but give a bonus to all Logic-related skills. Cerebral booster isn't as good, since it only raises Logic, which is not used for most Matrix tests (it would help with things such as programming).
klinktastic
QUOTE (Glyph @ Nov 7 2010, 05:06 PM) *
Reflex recorders work for physical and combat skills only. Logic-related skills can be boosted by PuSHeD (which the build already has) or by an encephalon. Both of which are pricey, but give a bonus to all Logic-related skills. Cerebral booster isn't as good, since it only raises Logic, which is not used for most Matrix tests (it would help with things such as programming).



/cry - Oh well, throw that one. Saves you some cash for a nano hive I guess (for the cyber sam hacker at least).
Glyph
Yeah, he's got cyber limbs, which would make it a lot easier. A nanohive is something that either costs a ton of Essence, or a smidge of capacity.
Zyerne
And a called shot to the meat parts is going to have metal limbs flying everywhere .

Fortunately, the OP doesn't want cyberlimbs smile.gif
klinktastic
QUOTE (Zyerne @ Nov 7 2010, 04:58 PM) *
If anyone brought that cybered character to my table, I'd assault cannon with extreme prejudice.


He said the magic word...optimization

Also, he said he hadn't imagined using cyberlimbs, but I'm sure with the benefits it's something to consider. Its not like the guy is running around naked, if he's wearing body armor over his chest and a helmet, I doubt anyone is going to call shots to the chest. That's pretty unrealistic. Metagaming, someone might do that, but realistically, no is going to do that, so I wouldn't even consider that as a negative.
Karoline
QUOTE (Glyph @ Nov 7 2010, 04:11 PM) *
A nanohive is something that either costs a ton of Essence, or a smidge of capacity.

That's something I've always hated. I understand that it is generally better to get something capacity wise instead of direct essence wise, but the disparity in a nanohive is absolutely absurd.
klinktastic
Eh, well this isn't the place to debate the merits of the nanohive. I like both characters. One is better at hacking. The other is better at street sam. Up to you.
Zyerne
If I'm calling a shot for extra DV, I'm not going to be aiming the limbs.

In this case, the same applies if I'm calling a shot to bypass armor, except it might be the head then.
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