Seriously, when you're the hacker in a team, and the most trustworthy member as far as you can tell is a mafia thug, and the least a rat shaman who's a little too fond of blowing things up and controlling people's thoughts, including having used it on one of the members of the team.

Can't turn them in without risking yourself, can't (easily) put cranial bombs in them. How do you deal with team members that might turn from useful to liability, or outright dangerous at the drop of a hat when you're just another player?

Sleeping gas + big bonus to a street doc = cranial bombs.

Do you have drones? Keep an extra couple around yourself for personal protection, have them ready to fire narrow full bursts at the offending person.

Two bullets in the back of the head, preferably when they're sleeping. Mind control of other team members = found floating in the nearest canal.

Move to Aztlan and ask for asylum.

From mind controlling mages?

Isn't that like going to nazi germany and asking them for asylum from religious prosecution (for being a jew)?

Heh. I've got some new players who aren't up on SR history who keep saying

"Aztechnology doesn't seem too bad..."

Use their matrix ignorance to suck their bank account dry, then have them picked up by the KE on a newly inserted warrant detailing their heinous history of cop-killing. Erase all you own financial traces to the safehouse or any crimes they've committed.

Part of me knows that shouldn't sound like a good idea, but at the same time...



One more reason I'm glad I've read up on SR history.



I think one of them has Erased, because I've lost records of things she's done, but she's probably the one I'm least worried about.

Yeah, but you have to be careful, because KE may well say "Hey, we'll take 5 years off your sentence if you can give us some of your accomplices."

Best to skip town or something if you can manage it.

I'm still a fan of sleeping gas.

Get them all hooked on kamikaze and wait for the inevitable.

From a safe distance.

put backdoors in all their commlinks and any hackable cyberware.

is it the PLAYERS who are dangerous, or are they playing dangerous characters?

if it's the former, they might be annoyed if you backstab them, even if they deserve it.

if it's the latter, have fun.

Of course, the first thing you should do is hope they are not reading this.

I'd imagine they aren't DSers.

Edit: Of course, trying to find out for sure could be interesting.

OP: "So, do any of you go on the dumpshock forums at all?"
Group: "No, why."
OP: "Oh umm.... not because I'm using it to plot against all of you. Yeah, no, you shouldn't check it out at all."

Well, it depends on how your group meets and stuff, but basically you either offer them a Laés cigarrete or lace their food with it. They will pass out (unless one of them is a Troll or a Dwarf, in this case, use Warp or something similar as backup) and you will have a a few hours to whatever you want with them and they will forget about it. Even if one of them has a cyber eye who records all the time, you can edit the image later.
This is my standard operation procedure to deal with any of my companions who might prove a liability later. This of course if you are just trying to get some leverage on them, if not, death by fast-moving lead intoxication is a good plan too.

Is it a sign that you have a SOP for that?

And do you mean high velocity lead poisoning?

Mostly it's that shaman with control thoughts I mentioned. I can live with the rest. (Even the vampire, no one knows in character...yet)
The player is very much a munchkin gamer, we (meaning a couple of the party members, the GM, and myself) think that it wouldn't be quite so bad, if he wasn't playing a mage with control thoughts.

Instead of killing him, maybe I could find someone he's pissed off enough that would pay to have him delivered....

EDIT: No, luckily I'm the only member of the group that come on here.

Players shouldn't be using control thoughts on other players. Ample justification for a judicious shooting IMO.

Would it be bad form to get a hit put out on said obnoxious mage? Especially if one of the other players would likely be the one to get the job?

Hehe, that's great.

P1 puts out hit on P2, which is accepted by P3. All while not knowing that P1 is the one putting out the hit in the first place.

Even more convoluted that that. P1 gets AresExec1 (who P2 tried to kill) to give the hit to P3's fixer. So it's not like I'd even be putting the hit on him directly.

My normal solution is, "Aw, facrissake, guys. Can we just play one measly campaign without you ruining it?"

Just out of interest, how does your character know, in character, that the Shaman is using control thoughts?

If you can prove it, show it to the PC he was using it on and let *them* deal with it as they see fit...

Because SR4 made magic super easy to see would be my guess. Combined with the controlled person acting very obviously out of the ordinary. And I don't think that the person fails to notice that they are being taken over by magic for control thoughts. It isn't like suggestion where they think it is their own idea.

He could be the PC that was controlled, wasn't super clear on the point.

Out of game: Talk with the GM and the other players. I assume you're not having fun with this aspect of the game but the other players might and there's a lot of potential fun to be had, see VtM. If they're not having fun, it's probably time for a group discussion with the guy. If they are, decide whether you're having enough fun in the game to justify staying. If so,

In game: Pick up the program Telematics Infrastructure from Unwired and boost your signal. Telematics automatically locates all public and private nodes within signal range and automatically rolls to sniff out hidden nodes every couple minutes/rounds (AFB). Either you now know their exact location at all times with the Tracking program or they're walking around without a Commlink so just wait for them to walk past all the fancy AR warnings about the unmarked Ares firing range or something. Once you've got that and a few drones you can pretty safely ignore him. Sure he can screw you up but you can also screw him anytime, from anywhere. If you don't need to accompany the team, refuse to meet except through AR.

Sorry about that, no, wasn't me, it was our character based off of the Covert Ops Specialist sample character.


He cast the spell right in front of everyone, on the person who'd just disagreed with him, and made him start acting off. My character may not be totally sure what spell it was, because he has limited knowledge of magic, but he knows the Shaman did it. Even without that, two high profile helicopter crashes, one of which he actually cheered about causing to the rest of the team make him way to high profile.

When your teammates aren't looking, put an remote-controlled explosive charge in their Commlinks.

If they give you any trouble later, well, even a small explosive attached to a body can give the all sorts of problems.



-k

I wouldn't let such a rat shaman live, if he did that. Keep record; if he uses magic on the party, he's an enemy pure and simple. He must be killed in the most effective way possible, whether that be by hiring an outsider or by tipping off CorpSec that a notorious terrorist is in the building and that he must be terminated with extreme prejudice.

The fun thing about wizards terrorizing other characters is that they often don't plan for the situation when the hacker is safely elsewhere, hidden without telling what coffin motel he's hanging out in. Hackers are far more dangerous at a distance. If your team scares you, hide in a bunker. That's what I do; I hide from the elven Black Magician with Slaughter Humans. Creepy bitch.

Take all of the above suggestions, and do all of them. Nuke the site from orbit, just to be sure.

Taking him out is the only viable option, be it by arrest by KE/LS/Corpsec, put out a hit, wipe his memory - do all of it. Wipe his memory, install a kink bomb (which is the greatest name ever), rat out his unconscious body to KE, and have the one who got mind-controlled put a round in his forehead from an opposing rooftop as the rat's being led away in chains.

That way the character is extremely dead, everyone is entertained by the Rube Goldberg-esque method of execution, and a crystal-clear message is left for the offending player.

I'm with Yerameyahu. Start by having a conversation with the player to find out why they think it is okay to mind control other PCs, making clear that it is not, in fact, okay. If the player remains unrepentant after a civil conversation and you do not have the power to remove the player from the group, then by all means go with Doc Chase's suggestions.

I really hate to see situations like this result in killing a teammate. You have a far greater chance of just pissing the guy off than teaching him a "valuable lesson."

The basic technique for hackers covering their ass is the failsafe action. Set up a system where every, day/week/whatever, you must send a command, let's say a number from a sequence based on some mathematical factor which would need to be observed for a long long time to be decoded. If you fail to send this command for whatever reason, dire consequences are visited upon those who should have been protecting you. Naturally, you don't tell them about this failsafe unless you're trying to spare them from its wrath. But you can still feel safe in the knowledge that all you have to do to screw each of them to hell and back is nothing at all.

As for keeping them in line, you're their information guy. They need you more than they need anyone else. Information is power, and you can feed them bad intel way easier than rat-boy can cast a spell.

Pretty sure no one is happy about it coming to killing him, but I've talked about it with him, and I'm pretty sure the GM has, and he's convinced that, at least from the character's point of view, he was doing what the character should have done.

Again, it's not just that he mind controlled one of that party. He's made runs that were otherwise quiet and low key, make the evening news by crashing a Doc Wagon chopper into a warehouse. And again later by not letting the sniper do her job, and crashing a traffic copter into the limo the target was in, during rush hour traffic. He's also managed to piss off a whole pack of vampires. If it were any one thing, we could let it slide, but it's been time after time of stupid decision, and he's been totally unrepentant.

If the *game* is damaged, then it doesn't matter if you're playing your character perfectly. That character doesn't work in the game.

I've dealt with players like this in the past. People that are disruptive and insist that their disruptive actions are justified by staying true to their character. The person in question is either honest in that sentiment or they're just using roleplaying as an excuse to be an ass. In the first instance, the GM needs to vet that person's characters more carefully before play begins. Gently, mind you, but it is much easier to steer a true believer in a less disruptive direction during chargen than it is to later tell them to either change their character's personality or make a new character. If your player is of the latter variety you're in more trouble because you need to convince the player that what he/she is doing to disrupt the game is wrong.

Sadly, I think it will come down to either the GM actually making the character suffer realistic and character-ending consequences for their actions or, failing that, the other players getting together to end the disruptive character. None of this is optimal because the player in question is likely to take any action to punish his character very personally.

IRCC Control thoughts/ emotions and actions does not remove the memory of those odd impulses. So I would rule it as having enough knowledge that you've been puppetted....by who is very depndent upon the situation.

Side note: Talk it over with your GM. What you plan to do and how and if it would offend him if you offed another player (I don't know your GM, but sometimes they'd prefer to not have PVP situations--I am not one of them . E-mail, and PM's have made it much easier to keep the offending character in the dark.

When "the character's point of view" is used as reason/excuse to be an ass then the player should accept whatever the other characters feel it's neccessary to do from the point of view of their characters.

Has the rat shaman's player been disruptive in other games or is this the first time?

This kind of drama is probably not what everyone is there for. Off the character ASAP and get back to drama free gaming.

Well, you see, Garou has a saying: "Paranoia is not a mental condition, it is a lifestyle." and I stay true to his saying.

Rule nº 1: Kill them before they kill you, is what every shadowrunner should live by. Sure, right now in my group, where I play as an amazonian cover agent jaguar shapeshifter, there are: a former Lonestar cop Troll, a Face with debts with the Mafia who would happily sell his own mother for money and a medic Magician with a lot of mind control spells and although I started very suspicious of the Magician and still am, right now he is the one member of the group that I really consider to be a friend (he saved a contact of mine of being turned into a Ghoul), still, it doesn't mean I don't have a contingency plan against him, nothing personal...

fast-moving = high velocity and intoxication = poisoning I just had forgot the appropriate term.

The GM needs to deal with this. That's not in character at all. What part of "rat works from the shadows" did this guy not get? These are not actions that Rat would condone in one of his followers, so he's probably lost his mentor quality or picked up a geas.

Also, assuming he used control thoughts to crash the choppers... how? Typically you can't see the pilot once he's in the chopper; tinted / mirrored windows are standard on all vehicles for pretty much this reason (among other things, its a public safety issue).

Talk to the GM again. If the GM is a pussy, talk to the player again. Don't be a pussy yourself. It's not just the Shaman player's game, it's the group's. If the player get pissy over it, so be it. At least it will be in the open and none of this cloak and dagger PVP crap. This seems to be an issue with how the player simply plays (or at least is playing currently), and let's be honest, some people shouldn't game. Period.

Well, you really got to ask yourself two questions.

1. Is he doing it because he is a dick or is he doing it because he is actually enjoy controversial RP (which I in fact love)

2. Is he a whiny little bitch that will cry if you kill his character, with valid ingame reason.

----------

Interestingly enough, the answer to all these questions is as follows

Kill the Shaman... viscious and brutally. Make an example out of him. Let the crows feast upon his half-living, tormented body.

Oderint dum metuant - let them hate, as long as they fear

Never let people fuck with you successfully. That will only encourage others

cheers
Wulffyre

Two words. Sleep Regulator.

Also, accidents do occur during battle....

Have never had a game (Shadowrun or otherwise) where players were not trying to do dirt to each other. In past games where such things have gotten out of hand (as the gm) I have increased the threat from the outside till such action on players part is akin to shooting themselves in the head with a cannon. As a player I have useally gone looking for another game after the third or fourth dirt sandwich.

As a player I have gone as far as summoning a spirit and spending the karma to bind it to another player's character to deliver significant electrical shocks when it percieved the character was acting against my characters best interests. That was an extreme case though.

does said shaman have a commlink?
Off to 'upgrade it for him'

Then one of the mods you should put into it:
Self Destruct, area effect (10K) it has an area effect like a fragmentation or high explosive grenade.

Hack yourself a backdoor into his commlink with a remote trigger for the self-destruct.
Then, if the shaman gets too uppity, blow him up. Preferably very far away from you.

Has anyone ever had a game where at least some of the characters did not try to do dirt to the others? Maybe its just an aspect of Shadowrun but it seems characters are always trying to short other characters on money and objects they "forget" to tell the party about.

Never in twenty years. YMMV.

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Both to me and by me. Not any more.

In-character betrayal and secrets can be a lot of fun if it is agreed upon ahead of time by the GM and the players involved.

Petty theft and withholding of loot? Not so much.

I've had a few games where the scout would grab a couple valuables from a room before the group caught up. But it wasn't a big deal, and entirely in character.

What would your character do?

Screw his commlink, cap him, walk away? Don't be afraid to do the latter at least until you sort things out with the player and/or GM.

Yeah. After the first year or so of playing a revolving cast of backstabbing jerks, we just got sick of that bullshit taking up so much time, and wanted to play some games where we actually got through a whole adventure in less than a month. There's also a lot more a team can get done (safely) when they... well, act like a team, and trust each other.