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ProfGast
Implanted Commlink is about 4x more expensive than a Datajack (which is about 10x more expensive than trodes but who's counting).

Is there any real advantage to having an implanted comm over a datajack for DNI Access?

Also, I'm getting mixed responses on where a datajack's outlet can be. The lines in engraved datajacks in Augmentation seem to imply it HAS to be sticking out of the head region (since it's headware), but there's a line somewhere in arsenal that talks about attaching a weapon to a fiber optic line in a datajack coming out of someone's hand (and using it as a poor man's lanyard at the same time). What's the ruling on that?

Because having a neat little hole in the back of your head for jacking in is cool. but having them mounted somewhere more aesthetically pleasing, or being able to incorporate them into your outfit is much more stylish.

Lastly, can each datajack support only one wired-in or chipped device?
Yerameyahu
There's really no reason to get *either*, when there's trodes (and skinlink). Literally everything supports chips in 2070, and nothing's really *on* chips anyway.

You can get 'abnormally-placed' datajacks, yes.
Zyerne
Only time I've ever implanted a commlink was in a rigger, same with the sim module. Just seemed to fit there.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (ProfGast @ Nov 13 2010, 09:24 PM) *
Is there any real advantage to having an implanted comm over a datajack for DNI Access?

You can't lose it and on high grade, get it through scanners.

That's about it.
Summerstorm
And it has always power (yeah-yeah i know all comlinks magically never have any energy problems), can not be destroyed with a called shot (well... except someone shoots you in the head *g*).

AND has an insanely low latency for inputs and feedback. ALL COOL hackers have it internal *g*
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 13 2010, 02:27 PM) *
There's really no reason to get *either*, when there's trodes (and skinlink). Literally everything supports chips in 2070, and nothing's really *on* chips anyway.

You can get 'abnormally-placed' datajacks, yes.

Discreetness? A trode is fairly easy to notice, a datajack is fairly hard to notice depending on where it is and what you're wearing, and an implanted commlink is impossible to notice without x-ray or something comparable.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 13 2010, 01:31 PM) *
Discreetness? A trode is fairly easy to notice, a datajack is fairly hard to notice depending on where it is and what you're wearing, and an implanted commlink is impossible to notice without x-ray or something comparable.


This ^^^

smokin.gif
Zyerne
Works with a decoy commlink too, have one they can find and the implanted one that you use for the important stuff.
Yerameyahu
Trodes are discreet, and utterly unremarkable anyway. It's like wearing a belt or eyeglasses.
Squinky
What I always like about internal comms is that you know flat out you have DNI connectivity.
WhiskeyJohnny
Another thing about internal comms - you can buy a metalink for nuyen.gif 100 and Vector Xim OS for nuyen.gif 200 and then run your nice internal comms in hidden mode without attracting undue attention. Also, a guy walking around with a metalink isn't gonna get pegged for a hacker.
Yerameyahu
You can do that with any comms, though. smile.gif
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 13 2010, 04:44 PM) *
Trodes are discreet, and utterly unremarkable anyway. It's like wearing a belt or eyeglasses.

Mmm, I'd say it'd draw a bit more attention than a belt, but you are right, people don't take that much note of it. Of course, there is also asthetics to take into account wink.gif
QUOTE
You can do that with any comms, though.

True, hidden mode with decoy works just as well with internal as external. I suppose we could get into some things like getting picked up by the cops. They can't take your implanted commlink, but they could take your fancy external commlink. Still, that is a fairly extraordinary circumstances case.
WhiskeyJohnny
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 13 2010, 06:12 PM) *
You can do that with any comms, though. smile.gif


Can you conceal your high end external comms?
Yerameyahu
Yup. They're tiny.
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 13 2010, 09:39 PM) *
Yup. They're tiny.

How tiny are they actually? SR constantly talks about them being small but what are they, cellphone size? iPad size? Netbook size?

Even cellphone size would get found during a search, but if they're that small, easy to conceal from sight under normal circumstances.
Yerameyahu
Why are you getting searched? frown.gif
WhiskeyJohnny
Either you screwed up, or it's a necessary part of the plan. Though there are those who believe the second clause falls under the purview of the first.
Zyerne
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 14 2010, 03:25 AM) *
How tiny are they actually? SR constantly talks about them being small but what are they, cellphone size? iPad size? Netbook size?

Even cellphone size would get found during a search, but if they're that small, easy to conceal from sight under normal circumstances.


From the concealability table..

+0 Heavy pistol, taser, grenade, goggles, commlink

As to getting searched, a paranoid Johnson and getting through corp security are 2 that immediately spring to mind.
Critias
Having an implanted datajack -- especially if it's custom chrome, or even just engraved or something -- is more than always having access to it, or not having to worry about running out of nanopaste, or worrying about the wind blowing your trode-hat off. It's a badge. A statement of dedication and purpose. If you want to be "in" in the Matrix crowd -- really in -- then you should have a datajack, dammit. It's a stylistic thing. It's a theme thing, a setting thing, a cool thing. A cyberpunk thing. It's an "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right" thing.

You ain't a console cowboy if you're worrying about paste or a headband, buddy. Get some plugs. Do it right.
Yerameyahu
*shrug* I feel like a situation where they're checking for a commlink (cell phone) will be a situation in which they can scan for hidden nodes, cyber, etc. smile.gif

Psh. That's so last decade. Move over, dinosaur. nyahnyah.gif
Karoline
How about we add this? Every reason you would get cybereyes/cyberears instead of goggles/glasses/contacts and earbuds.

And from the concealability chart, they're heavy pistol size, which is a bit big for a cellphone. That sounds like something close to netbook size to me. And remember, if you know you're getting searched like that, you could always shut off your internal commlink's wireless entirely for a few seconds so they can't find the hidden node.
Yerameyahu
And the cyberware scanner. smile.gif And I'd say, every reason you'd get goggles/glasses/contacts and earbuds instead of cyber-things, except that you can drop that commlink into a limb. wink.gif

Anyway, serious for moment: yes, implants are better in those rare circumstances where you're totally screwed already.
Zyerne
Also grenade sized, so maybe not quite as big as a netbook. You can fit 2 in a cyberhand.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 14 2010, 06:04 AM) *
Anyway, serious for moment: yes, implants are better in those rare circumstances where you're totally screwed already.

High grade implants, that is. And if playing by RAW concerning cyber scanner efficiency and price, you are totally screwed 24/7.
Yerameyahu
Indeed.
Laodicea
Why would anyone care about finding a commlink on you during a search unless they already suspected you're a hacker? Everyone has one. Its weirder not to.
WhiskeyJohnny
I think it's less the finding of your commlink than the taking of your commlink. If you're running an external 'link then they'll take it, and you'll be next to useless as a hacker. If you're running an internal 'link with an external backup/decoy then when they take the decoy you still have your main to hack with.
Karoline
QUOTE (WhiskeyJohnny @ Nov 14 2010, 04:52 PM) *
I think it's less the finding of your commlink than the taking of your commlink. If you're running an external 'link then they'll take it, and you'll be next to useless as a hacker. If you're running an internal 'link with an external backup/decoy then when they take the decoy you still have your main to hack with.

Exactly. Now, there aren't a ton of circumstances under which this would happen, but the ones that do, would likely be very useful. If for example you get busted by the cops, and they take your commlink and your high grade implanted commlink slips the scanner, then you're in a great position to either 1) adjust your criminal record so they think they picked you up for public drunkenness and let you out the next day, or 2) just hack the jail's security and make it open up your jail cell and edit the cameras etc.

Or you might be let into some security zone (Pretending to be a contractor) and have access to sensitive nodes that are otherwise disconnected from the matrix.
KCKitsune
What I would like to know is if you can upgrade a datajack with a Response chip and turn a datajack into a commlink without a wireless transmitter.
Karoline
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Nov 14 2010, 11:26 PM) *
What I would like to know is if you can upgrade a datajack with a Response chip and turn a datajack into a commlink without a wireless transmitter.

Technically yes. Technically you could also install a better wireless signal too.
Yerameyahu
Technically maybe. wink.gif Presumably, it's a Peripheral node.
Xahn Borealis
That French titled story in SR4A establishes you can at least have a datajack at the base of your spine. Also, one thing everyone always seems to miss when discussing datajacks is that they come with their own headware memory. So, concealed, high-grade datajack = concealed data in ubiquitous disguise. As for datajack-links, I remember someone mentioning that 4 alpha-grade datajacks clustered together made a Rating 4 commlink or something.
sabs
And Yes, Lone Star can't take your internal commlink away from you, like they can your external one if they get to search you, and they find it, sewn into the lining of your coat. That's fair. If it's internal though, they can put a headjammer on you and totally fuck your day.

And they can also put you in surgery for free and yank the damn thing out.
Karoline
QUOTE (Xahn Borealis @ Nov 15 2010, 07:09 AM) *
That French titled story in SR4A establishes you can at least have a datajack at the base of your spine. Also, one thing everyone always seems to miss when discussing datajacks is that they come with their own headware memory. So, concealed, high-grade datajack = concealed data in ubiquitous disguise. As for datajack-links, I remember someone mentioning that 4 alpha-grade datajacks clustered together made a Rating 4 commlink or something.

Yes, but in SR, your clothing is also storage. As is your commlink itself of course. So having more storage really isn't that big of a deal.
QUOTE
That's fair. If it's internal though, they can put a headjammer on you and totally fuck your day.

And they can also put you in surgery for free and yank the damn thing out.

They can use a headjammer, but they have to notice that you have the internal first. And even then, if you have signal 6 and rating 6 ECCM you can bypass even the best headjammer. And yes, surgery is an option, but they're very unlikely to do that unless you'll be spending a few years in their care.
StealthSigma
Personally, I've always felt it was a matter of:
Internal Commlink -> Hackers
Datajacks -> Combat & Observational characters (to make use of DNI)
Trodes -> Everyone else

While the Internal Comm may raise eyes, if noticed, no one is going to bad an eye at a Datajack or Trode network (unless it's uncouth to be sporting one or the other in a given location).
Ascalaphus
I don't really like internal commlinks, because fluffwise it'd be annoying when you want to upgrade hardware, or try something new. The way hackers do, with desktop computers. It'd be annoying.

One advantage I'd give datajack and implanted commlink over trodes is that I'd rule their DNI immune to jamming, while trodes could be confused by environmental conditions. They are, after all, trying to pick up subtle signals from the outside of your skull.
Mesh
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Nov 15 2010, 10:10 AM) *
I don't really like internal commlinks, because fluffwise it'd be annoying when you want to upgrade hardware, or try something new. The way hackers do, with desktop computers. It'd be annoying.

One advantage I'd give datajack and implanted commlink over trodes is that I'd rule their DNI immune to jamming, while trodes could be confused by environmental conditions. They are, after all, trying to pick up subtle signals from the outside of your skull.


Fluff's not necessarily a problem. You could have a side access panel like Data from STNG.

Mesh
Zyerne
At least we don't have to worry about Cranial Cyberdecks any more. One of the few things you need a calculator to figure out costs for.
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Nov 15 2010, 09:10 AM) *
One advantage I'd give datajack and implanted commlink over trodes is that I'd rule their DNI immune to jamming, while trodes could be confused by environmental conditions. They are, after all, trying to pick up subtle signals from the outside of your skull.


That's the other advantage I see to it. DNI datajacks provide a direct, possibly shielded, link to whatever equipment you're using. It's basic physical security of your devices. If you're not transmitting or receiving wirelessly, then the only to get at your gear is to hard hack the line which isn't going to be easy to do against an individual unless you knock them out. Trodes, I feel, lack the physical security that a DNI datajack provides.
Yerameyahu
Trodes can't be jammed, unless you're using wireless (and why would you, when there's skinlink); you can also run wires from trodes, just like anything else.
sabs
If the internal commlink gave so advantage. Like improved initiative, or allowing certain simple actions as free actions because your mind is integrated with the commlink so that really the commlink is part of your mind 24/7.

This also begs, why do people with implanted commlinks not suffer from media/btl addictions as a general course?

A commlink can be the size of a wrist watch, a modern day cellphone. People can wear them bedazzled as pendants. They're actually fairly small.
Instead of an implanted commlink, why not use a skin pouch, and keep a regular commlink in there.

Zyerne
As 0 Concealability items they're not that small.

I'm pretty sure there's a commlink pictured in the picture they used for the Hacker, on his right hip. I'm entirely comfortable using that as a size representation.
Yerameyahu
Presumably, the concealability table is wrong. But let's pretend it isn't, because that's why there are rules. smile.gif
Zyerne
Well, if the item pictured on the hacker's right hip is meant to be an accurate representation of a commlink, concealabilty is about right.
Hida Tsuzua
QUOTE (Zyerne @ Nov 15 2010, 05:17 PM) *
As 0 Concealability items they're not that small.

I'm pretty sure there's a commlink pictured in the picture they used for the Hacker, on his right hip. I'm entirely comfortable using that as a size representation.


Honestly I'm just glad that commlinks are only pistol sized and not assault rifle sized like their forerunner, the pocket secretary. grinbig.gif
Cheops
A little fuzzy on the rules but couldn't you just implant the commlink at 5/5/5/5 and be pretty much top line then just use a datajack to attach a Hot Modded Sim Module? That way your commlink is completely street legal.
Zyerne
Top of the line is 6s so if you don't blow restricted gear on it at char creation your looking at surgery if you want to upgrade down the line. I figure cyberlimbs is a good place to put them, upgrading should be a lot less hassle then.

As to the sim module, in my game the hot sim mod would be a lot easier to detect (should it ever come up) on an external one than an implanted one.
Yerameyahu
I always assume that the pictures are totally wrong, for one thing.

But more seriously, it's hard to imagine that commlinks in 2070 don't run the range from tiny to huge. I mean, how is that going to fit in your skull anyway, for the implanted version? Any answer you can give applies equally to externals (no need for the display, etc.), because trodes cover *everything*. So, take out the display, the earbuds, the camera, everything, and there must be some tiny commlinks out there.
Zyerne
After taking out the 90% of your brain you don't use there's plenty of room smile.gif

I never figured out how they got cranial cyberdecks in either and decks were a lot bigger than commlinks.
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