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Mäx
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Dec 29 2010, 01:04 AM) *
What would stop every street sam from buying enchanted bullets or turning their hand razors into force 6 weapon foci?

The fact thats it's bloody expensive
pbangarth
QUOTE (Mäx @ Dec 28 2010, 06:20 PM) *
The fact thats it's bloody expensive

This would only delay the inevitable.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Dec 28 2010, 11:46 AM) *
Are you claiming that the natural IP of a metahuman, 1, does not stack with the IPs given by Wired Reflexes?

-k


Sure does sound like it, doesn't it? Amazing... wobble.gif
Neraph
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Dec 28 2010, 12:46 PM) *
Are you claiming that the natural IP of a metahuman, 1, does not stack with the IPs given by Wired Reflexes?




-k

I didn't know that "2 IP" meant "1 from metahuman."
pbangarth
QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 28 2010, 12:47 PM) *
Ok... but IP's still do not stack. That 2 from simply being should not stack with anything else; and if it does, it should be expressly noted somewhere, which it isn't.

QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Dec 28 2010, 01:46 PM) *
Are you claiming that the natural IP of a metahuman, 1, does not stack with the IPs given by Wired Reflexes?

QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 29 2010, 12:44 PM) *
I didn't know that "2 IP" meant "1 from metahuman."

I think karmainferno was responding to "2 from simply being should not stack with anything else", his paraphrase of Neraph then being "1 from simply being should not stack with anything else."
Modular Man
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Dec 29 2010, 12:04 AM) *
What would stop every street sam from buying enchanted bullets or turning their hand razors into force 6 weapon foci?

The GM? The rules for unique enchantments are so vague, a final say from the GM at every table would be needed. Those things are damn close to house rules.
Given this, they should not appear in packs of a dozen.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 29 2010, 10:44 AM) *
I didn't know that "2 IP" meant "1 from metahuman."


It didn't, at least not from me... I was commenting on the fact that there are animals (Cheetah was my example) with 2 IP because they are fast animals... Augmenting them with Wired Reflexes 1 would impart 3 IP at that point, for that/those animals...
Yerameyahu
*shrug*. Presumably, they 'actually' have the base 1 IP and a natural +1 IP Quality or something.
pbangarth
That is one presumption. Another one is that they are naturally faster and have 2 IPs without any artificial acceleration.
Yerameyahu
Ahem, "natural". wink.gif Whatever 'naturally faster' even means, anyway. I'm told that chickens have a 'faster' visual system than humans, and that some insects can react quicker, etc. There's no particular reason that a cheetah has 2 IPs in the first place. It's an arbitrary game, so arbitrary solutions ('No, you don't get 5 IPs', etc.) are 100% acceptable. biggrin.gif
Neraph
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Dec 29 2010, 10:16 PM) *
*shrug*. Presumably, they 'actually' have the base 1 IP and a natural +1 IP Quality or something.


QUOTE (pbangarth Posted Today, 10:19 PM )
That is one presumption. Another one is that they are naturally faster and have 2 IPs without any artificial acceleration.


Sums up the two sides. Based on what I stated you can guess which camp I fall into, and based on the lack of evidence for either side this one's basically "agree to interpret differently."
Draco18s
Ahem, fellows:

QUOTE
When activated, wired reflexes confer a bonus of
+1 to Reaction and +1 Initiative Pass per point of rating.
Wired reflexes cannot be combined with any other form of
Initiative enhancement.


+1 Initiative pass per rating. So wired 1 grants +1 IPs meaning that if implanted into a creature with 2 natural (cheetah) it would have three.

Notice how it also says Initiative enhancement meaning, basically, cyber, bio, or magic. Natural bonuses (such as a base 2) don't apply.

QED the cygoyl has a base 2 initiative.
Neraph
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Dec 29 2010, 10:16 PM) *
*shrug*. Presumably, they 'actually' have the base 1 IP and a natural +1 IP Quality or something.

You did read that, right? And what I said about lack of evidence for either side?
pbangarth
QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 29 2010, 11:50 PM) *
Sums up the two sides. Based on what I stated you can guess which camp I fall into, and based on the lack of evidence for either side this one's basically "agree to interpret differently."
Given that a general consensus exists that the text does not explicitly tell us how to interpret critter IPs, we should apply Occam's Razor.

The interpretation that explains a critter IP of 2 or more as having some Quality (as per SR definition) present to increase a natural IP of 1, as most critters and metahumans have, requires an extra assumption. That is, that some unstated, undefined Quality exists for those critters, a Quality that then cannot combine with tech as other SR Qualities cannot.

The interpretation that explains a critter IP of 2 or more as simply being what it is requires no further fabrication of rules-related interpretation. What is written is enough, just as the various written Attributes of the critter need no further elaboration.

The latter interpretation requires fewer new assumptions, and so is likely the more correct one, according to the Razor.
Neraph
And yet Occam's Razor fails at FSPC rules? Interesting.
pbangarth
QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 30 2010, 12:39 PM) *
And yet Occam's Razor fails at FSPC rules? Interesting.

In what way?
Yerameyahu
Occam's Razor is a tool, but not necessarily the best one. In the case of the SR4 rules (known to be spotty, to say the least), it's a crap shoot as to whether you should apply it. Again, arbitrary. smile.gif Pick a side and run with it, because it doesn't matter and you can't be wrong. I always err on the side of less power.
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