Doc Byte
Aug 22 2011, 09:44 PM
QUOTE (Sengir @ Aug 19 2011, 05:13 PM)

While it's called "reunification", technically it was an accession of the DDR to the Federal Republic.
There was never a reunification. That's a myth. In fact the FRG
bought the GDR from Russia.
Traul
Aug 22 2011, 10:05 PM
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 22 2011, 10:24 PM)

russian beer?
don't you mean vodka?
There is a way to tell them apart: the beer is the sparkling one.
Medicineman
Aug 23 2011, 06:18 AM
Seriously Mike
Aug 23 2011, 11:19 AM
While we're at ridiculous names, what does "pink mohawk" mean and where did it come from?
Aerospider
Aug 23 2011, 11:29 AM
QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Aug 23 2011, 12:19 PM)

While we're at ridiculous names, what does "pink mohawk" mean and where did it come from?
It's used to refer to the kind of shadowrun players/characters/games the nature of which is to go in all guns blazing, causing chaos and carnage left, right and centre to get the job done in the most isn't-brute-force-fun way possible. Typically the consequences are either not explored or considered an acceptible price.
The alternative is dark shades, where the MO is focused heavily on subterfuge and shadowy operations using finesse and caution to a paranoid degree. This approach usually considers the consequences of being identified as the ultimate failure in a mission.
As for where it comes from – as I understand it, it's rooted in the '80s punk theme so prevalent in SR (less so now than with 1st edition) and other cyberpunk universes. Both the colour and the hairstyle give an impression of both punkness and stand-out-ish-ness.
Brazilian_Shinobi
Aug 23 2011, 11:55 AM
Seriously Mike
Aug 23 2011, 01:14 PM
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 23 2011, 01:29 PM)

It's used to refer to the kind of shadowrun players/characters/games the nature of which is to go in all guns blazing, causing chaos and carnage left, right and centre to get the job done in the most isn't-brute-force-fun way possible. Typically the consequences are either not explored or considered an acceptible price.
*notes down* "Contrary to popular belief, brute force actually is a viable alternative in some cases. Some people know better than messing with whackjobs who are willing to blow stuff up to achieve their goals and don't give a shit if someone recognizes them."
Medicineman
Aug 23 2011, 01:30 PM
QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Aug 23 2011, 06:19 AM)

While we're at ridiculous names, what does "pink mohawk" mean and where did it come from?
watch the Movie
Smokin Aces (I try to explain without spoiling) this Movie explains it better than a 100 Words
there is one Group totally "Pink Mohawk ",Alicia Keyes and her Partner are "Standard Shadowrunner"(subtle until drastic means are neccessary)
and the Killer who uses the disguises (Duel in the Elevator) is ...kinda "Shades & long Coat"
with one Dance instead of a Hundred Words
Medicineman
Stahlseele
Aug 23 2011, 01:43 PM
Brazilian_Shinobi
Aug 23 2011, 02:17 PM
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Aug 23 2011, 10:30 AM)

watch the Movie Smokin Aces (I try to explain without spoiling) this Movie explains it better than a 100 Words
there is one Group totally "Pink Mohawk ",Alicia Keyes and her Partner are "Standard Shadowrunner"(subtle until drastic means are neccessary)
and the Killer who uses the disguises (Duel in the Elevator) is ...kinda "Shades & long Coat"
with one Dance instead of a Hundred Words
Medicineman
That movie is awesome, plus, Alicia Keyes is hot
Fatum
Aug 23 2011, 02:37 PM
QUOTE (Traul @ Aug 23 2011, 02:05 AM)

There is a way to tell them apart: the beer is the sparkling one.
Nah, there's a simpler way - good Russian vodka actually exists.
As to the beer I mean, take Baltica for example, bleh.
CanRay
Aug 23 2011, 02:46 PM
QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Aug 23 2011, 08:14 AM)

"Contrary to popular belief, brute force actually is a viable alternative in some cases. Some people know better than messing with whackjobs who are willing to blow stuff up to achieve their goals and don't give a shit if someone recognizes them."
Still doesn't explain why my hometown has a SWAT team when another bomb squad would have been much more useful.
Dreadlord
Aug 23 2011, 06:56 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 23 2011, 09:46 AM)

Still doesn't explain why my hometown has a SWAT team when another bomb squad would have been much more useful.
Why would your town need more than 1 bomb sqad? I didn't know Dublin or Falluja was in Canada!
Sengir
Aug 23 2011, 07:01 PM
QUOTE (Dreadlord @ Aug 23 2011, 06:56 PM)

Why would your town need more than 1 bomb sqad?
Depends on how they defuse the bombs, I guess
Irion
Aug 23 2011, 07:29 PM
Well, I always thought pink mohawk was only about loud and doing it with style.
Like I could shoot him an be effizient or I could run towards him and hit him in the face and kick him in the but afterwards.
If you kill people or not has, as far as I understood it, nothing to do with pink mohawk.
Pink mohawk is the obvious cyberarm with thousands of gimicks in it. The if you don't know shit, just hit someone and ask him.
If you would use D&D slang, pink mohawk is chaotic.
CanRay
Aug 23 2011, 09:10 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 23 2011, 09:46 AM)

Still doesn't explain why my hometown has a SWAT team when another bomb squad would have been much more useful.
QUOTE (Dreadlord @ Aug 23 2011, 01:56 PM)

Why would your town need more than 1 bomb sqad? I didn't know Dublin or Falluja was in Canada!
I grew up in a mining town. At least 1/3 of the population there either has the training to make and handle large amounts of explosives, or the ability to learn. Conservative estimate, at that.
Add to that the availability of high explosives...
Well, we already vaporized a transport truck once. Now, admittedly, that was a mistake and he "might" have been illegally carrying blasting caps with the full load of mining explosives ("Might" in this case meaning there's no evidence as it got all blowed up.), but still...
Hound
Aug 24 2011, 03:55 AM
Honestly I've always found Aztechnology to be easily the most ridiculous company name. I mean, I know what they're going for, they're Aztec and they like technology, but it just seems really odd to me.
QUOTE (Irion @ Aug 23 2011, 02:29 PM)

Well, I always thought pink mohawk was only about loud and doing it with style.
Like I could shoot him an be effizient or I could run towards him and hit him in the face and kick him in the but afterwards.
If you kill people or not has, as far as I understood it, nothing to do with pink mohawk.
Pink mohawk is the obvious cyberarm with thousands of gimicks in it. The if you don't know shit, just hit someone and ask him.
If you would use D&D slang, pink mohawk is chaotic.
pink mohawk also has connotations of ignoring some of the more paranoid aspects of Shadowrun. Many paranoid style players would avoid actually taking a life, in order to avoid sparking repercussions. Therefore, simply shooting someone could be considered more pink mohawk (especially if you do it with style!)
CanRay
Aug 24 2011, 03:58 AM
QUOTE (Hound @ Aug 23 2011, 10:55 PM)

Honestly I've always found Aztechnology to be easily the most ridiculous company name. I mean, I know what they're going for, they're Aztec and they like technology, but it just seems really odd to me.
Maybe it makes more sense in Spanish?
Hound
Aug 24 2011, 04:01 AM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 23 2011, 10:58 PM)

Maybe it makes more sense in Spanish?
Lol... as far as I know, Aztec is just the name of a culture, no second meanings. It's even funnier cause like, it's not even a very family friendly culture to want to brand yourself with, what with all the human sacrificing and such.
CanRay
Aug 24 2011, 04:12 AM
QUOTE (Hound @ Aug 23 2011, 11:01 PM)

Lol... as far as I know, Aztec is just the name of a culture, no second meanings. It's even funnier cause like, it's not even a very family friendly culture to want to brand yourself with, what with all the human sacrificing and such.
So? You think Ásatrú is? There are people today that are happy to show their faith in that.
Smile politely and nod when they explain that, by the way.
Fatum
Aug 24 2011, 06:54 AM
First, Aztechnology is a deliberate wordplay, a thing not unheard of in company names.
Second, general public does not know about the blood magic, human sacrifices and samesuch. Sure they sacrifice flowers and sometimes animals, but it's their culture, chummer, have some respect!
Hound
Aug 24 2011, 11:00 AM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 24 2011, 12:12 AM)

So? You think Ásatrú is? There are people today that are happy to show their faith in that.
Smile politely and nod when they explain that, by the way.

That's true, I'm not hating on either religion, however, how many companies do you see associating themselves with Odin?
QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 24 2011, 02:54 AM)

First, Aztechnology is a deliberate wordplay, a thing not unheard of in company names.
Second, general public does not know about the blood magic, human sacrifices and samesuch. Sure they sacrifice flowers and sometimes animals, but it's their culture, chummer, have some respect!
I dunno, I would say it goes the other way, especially with magic appearing. Practically the only thing I know about the Aztec tradition is that it involves human sacrifice and sometimes demands self-mutilation from it's priests. If some of that stuff started coming out of history books and appearing in the news it would become more common knowledge. Then when you consider that it is the most extreme aspects of any given subject which determine the view that Joe Public is likely to have on it, I would say most people would associate Aztecs and blood magic pretty strongly in 2070.
All in all, I think Shiawase is a fairly realistic name for a corporation. It's bland, it isn't likely to offend a significant number of people and it has obvious good connotations. Aztechnology seems creepy and possibly disturbing, which I'm sure is exactly what the writers were going for, as that also fits the personality of the corp pretty well. The Azzies have a reputation for ferocious pragmatism, only thinly disguised by the trappings of a corporation, correct?
Seriously Mike
Aug 24 2011, 01:02 PM
Did we already discuss "Zugwagen"? I don't speak German, but I can recognize a bad fake anyway. "Traincar", c'mon...
Also, what's Stuffer Shack exactly? A convenience store or a fast-food joint? It's a pretty crappy name in both cases, but with convenience store, it's definitely crappier.
Brazilian_Shinobi
Aug 24 2011, 01:31 PM
As far as I know, Stuffer Shack is a convenience store.
Also, Aztlan does human sacrifices in their temples and in a rather public way, all public sacrifices are of criminals (specially scape-goats that can be labeled as "traitors").
Aztechnology does embrace its Aztlan heritage but they spin the public's opinion enough that most people just think of them as the food supplier of the world.
Kirk
Aug 24 2011, 01:59 PM
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Aug 24 2011, 09:31 AM)

As far as I know, Stuffer Shack is a convenience store.
Also, Aztlan does human sacrifices in their temples and in a rather public way, all public sacrifices are of criminals (specially scape-goats that can be labeled as "traitors").
Aztechnology does embrace its Aztlan heritage but they spin the public's opinion enough that most people just think of them as the food supplier of the world.
That reminds me... Have they started their soylent line of food products yet?
pbangarth
Aug 24 2011, 02:15 PM
The incorporation of the word "Aztec" in the name of Aztechnology is a wonderful example of the tradition of adapting/re-interpreting ancient symbols and imagery for modern purposes. You don't have to look hard to find examples of it in our culture.
The usage is even self-referential, as the name Aztec was given by moderns to the ancient people who, as far as we know, never used that name for themselves. We built it from "Aztlan", which was their mythical place of origin, somewhere to the north of their empire, probably around the modern border between Mexico and the United States, and "-tec", meaning people in the Nahuatl language.
Blood sacrifice was a religious tradition throughout the whole Mesoamerican region, including the Maya, Zapotecs, Mixtecs and whole bunch of other peoples. It was considered necessary in order to feed the gods, who needed the energy to keep the world going. No blood sacrifice = weakened gods = end of world.
The Aztecs stepped it up to a whole new level, using human sacrifice also as a justification for imperial conquest, and as a tool of terrorism and oppression. Imagine this scene:
*****
An annual festival in Tenochtitlán is held, to which all the conquered chiefs and kings are 'invited'. The huge main square, dominated by temples and palaces on all sides, is lined with tables of food and drink, at which the dignitaries are seated. Acrobats, dancers and singers perform in the open space in the middle. Each temple is occupied at the top by priests, and lines of tributary captives from all the vassal states represented here snake up one of each temple's massive stairways. The priests are working non-stop, stretching the captives one-by-one across a giant stone, slicing their chests and tearing out their hearts, tossing them onto sacred fires and dumping the lifeless bodies down another set of steep steps to accumulate at the bottom. Music, dancing, singing, slicing, thump-thumping of bodies. And the smell. The smell of thousands of bloodied corpses and burning hearts.
And the message: We can do this to your people any time we want, and there is nothing you can do about it.
*****
This is the tradition to which the SR corporation subscribes.
Doc Byte
Aug 24 2011, 02:44 PM
QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Aug 24 2011, 03:02 PM)

Did we already discuss "Zugwagen"? I don't speak German, but I can recognize a bad fake anyway. "Traincar", c'mon...
A "Zugwagen" can mean a "railroad car", but more frequently it's used with reference to a towing vehicle (esp. when towing a caravan or something similar), while we call the railroad car simply a "wag(g)on".
And just for fun: A tractor unit would be a Zug
maschine and a locomotive a
Triebwagen.
CanRay
Aug 24 2011, 03:01 PM
QUOTE (Hound @ Aug 24 2011, 06:00 AM)

That's true, I'm not hating on either religion, however, how many companies do you see associating themselves with Odin?
Monoc Security Services.
Fatum
Aug 24 2011, 07:28 PM
QUOTE (Hound @ Aug 24 2011, 03:00 PM)

I dunno, I would say it goes the other way, especially with magic appearing. Practically the only thing I know about the Aztec tradition is that it involves human sacrifice and sometimes demands self-mutilation from it's priests. If some of that stuff started coming out of history books and appearing in the news it would become more common knowledge. Then when you consider that it is the most extreme aspects of any given subject which determine the view that Joe Public is likely to have on it, I would say most people would associate Aztecs and blood magic pretty strongly in 2070.
You forget that the Azzies have the best spin specialists around. Okay, second only to Horizon. So Joe Average thinks of them as the people who feed him with their super-energetic choc bars, not as blood mages and killers. It's mentioned in the fluff several times, too.
CanRay
Aug 24 2011, 07:51 PM
Horizon's the new kid on the block, and specialize in Spin. Aztechnology, at it's core, is still an agricultural and pharmaceutical business. It's that Narco-Terror Gang Front origin.
Just like Saeder-Krupp's main industries are Heavy Metals and Industrial Manufacturing, Ares Macrotechnology is in munitions and automotive construction, and NeoNET's is figuring out a new name for itself (Oh, and computer hardware and software.).
Anyhow, for AZT to have to have such a massive spin department for a company whose primary interest is *FOOD*, well, that should tell you something right there.
...
Or that I'm getting into Plan 9-level conspiracy thinking.
Sengir
Aug 24 2011, 08:04 PM
QUOTE (Hound @ Aug 24 2011, 11:00 AM)

That's true, I'm not hating on either religion, however, how many companies do you see associating themselves with Odin?
In SR (and most other fictional universes) product names from various mythologies seem to be quite popular...
QUOTE
Practically the only thing I know about the Aztec tradition is that it involves human sacrifice and sometimes demands self-mutilation from it's priests.
And most of what we know about these practices is from Christian missionaries, who obviously were prone to overstating the evils of the old faiths. Which again makes it easy to dismiss such stories altogether as "propaganda by the imperialists who butchered our people"
CanRay
Aug 24 2011, 08:31 PM
Yeah, I'm still not taking any invites to a "Party in my honor" at the top of any of the AZT Pyramids, slot you very much.
Brazilian_Shinobi
Aug 24 2011, 08:42 PM
Aztlaner Priest: "Oh come on, CanRay, stop being a whiny boy, no one is going to kill you in there."
CanRay: "And what is this dying screams I hear in there?"
Aztlaner Priest: "Oh, that? They are just uhm... they are just pranking him with hot wax and shave him, no one is gutting anybody and throwing their hearts in a pire, no sire, no gutting in there."
CanRay: "Ah, ok!"
CanRay
Aug 24 2011, 08:43 PM
I'm a Canadian Civilian, not stupid.
Crazy, but not stupid.
Sengir
Aug 24 2011, 09:21 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 24 2011, 08:31 PM)

Yeah, I'm still not taking any invites to a "Party in my honor" at the top of any of the AZT Pyramids, slot you very much.
Blood Mage Gestalt: This is exactly what you want to do *waves hand*
CanRay
Aug 24 2011, 10:17 PM
QUOTE (Sengir @ Aug 24 2011, 04:21 PM)

Blood Mage Gestalt: This is exactly what you want to do *waves hand*
This is what I want to do. *Waves foot into groin* I'm hardly a weak minded fool.
Seriously Mike
Aug 25 2011, 06:58 AM
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Aug 24 2011, 04:44 PM)

A "Zugwagen" can mean a "railroad car", but more frequently it's used with reference to a towing vehicle (esp. when towing a caravan or something similar), while we call the railroad car simply a "wag(g)on".
Derp, 's what I meant, I confused "train" with "rail" ("zug" literally means "train", but translating "zugwagen" gave me the "railroad car" result and some synonyms).
Also, going through the splatbooks I find typos all over the place. Shitty names are one thing, editor doing a sloppy job is another.
CanRay
Aug 25 2011, 07:08 AM
It's not just RPG books, editing has gone to hell in all printed media.
My Great Aunt was an editor par excellence (Amongst other things in her life), and what she has to say about the "Professional" work done in novels and newspapers today compared to what they were even ten years ago could fill a book.
If she had more gumption (She's retired), she probably and quite literally would fill a book, and likely get it printed, as well. Without typos or editing errors. (Printers errors, OTOH...).
Funny thing is, I mention "Gonzo Journalism" to her, and her face lights up, "Ah!", and you know there's still a lot of spirit in the old girl. ... Actually, you know that anyhow, it just comes to the surface more with certain topics.
Fatum
Aug 25 2011, 11:24 AM
The problem with RPG books and typos is that the typos are rarely if ever corrected in the new printings of the books.
Kirk
Aug 25 2011, 12:49 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 25 2011, 03:08 AM)

It's not just RPG books, editing has gone to hell in all printed media.
My Great Aunt was an editor par excellence (Amongst other things in her life), and what she has to say about the "Professional" work done in novels and newspapers today compared to what they were even ten years ago could fill a book.
If she had more gumption (She's retired), she probably and quite literally would fill a book, and likely get it printed, as well. Without typos or editing errors. (Printers errors, OTOH...).
Funny thing is, I mention "Gonzo Journalism" to her, and her face lights up, "Ah!", and you know there's still a lot of spirit in the old girl. ... Actually, you know that anyhow, it just comes to the surface more with certain topics.
Well, who needs editors when you have spellcheckers. And grammar checkers. I mean, do you know what those people charge just to check spelling and grammar?
(Sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell.)
CanRay
Aug 25 2011, 03:34 PM
QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 25 2011, 06:24 AM)

The problem with RPG books and typos is that the typos are rarely if ever corrected in the new printings of the books.
They're not corrected on webpages of newspapers or in later print runs of novels, either.
Fatum
Aug 25 2011, 03:56 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 25 2011, 07:34 PM)

They're not corrected on webpages of newspapers or in later print runs of novels, either.
In the latter case, yes they are. In Soviet Union, you also had a chance to get a small sheet of paper with typos listed even for the first printing, put there by the after-print control.
Brazilian_Shinobi
Aug 25 2011, 05:55 PM
QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 25 2011, 12:56 PM)

In the latter case, yes they are. In Soviet Union, you also had a chance to get a small sheet of paper with typos listed even for the first printing, put there by the after-print control.
And what about Russia?
Also, in Soviet Union, you get "errata-ed".

Sorry, couldn't help it.
PittsburghRPGA
Aug 25 2011, 06:10 PM
QUOTE (Kirk @ Aug 25 2011, 08:49 AM)

Well, who needs editors when you have spellcheckers. And grammar checkers. I mean, do you know what those people charge just to check spelling and grammar?
(Sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell.)
I can tell, but some folks might not know just how much an editor gets in the rpg field.
In the rpg industry, typically a penny a word and usually, a copy of the final product too.
Seems fairly standard too.
Of course, this also requires the project manager to accept all of your edits, which doesn't always happen. Or stop them from sending the pre-edit version to the printers by mistake.
Cordially,
Eric Kiefer
Co-Editor Player's Guide to Blackmoor, Editor Riders of the Hak.
Fatum
Aug 25 2011, 06:23 PM
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Aug 25 2011, 09:55 PM)

And what about Russia.
Also, in Soviet Union, you get "errata-ed".

Sorry, couldn't help it.

In Russia, it's a free-for-all. Books printed on just-barely-not-toilet paper, riddled with translation errors, typos, and just errors the author made cause he can't even use his native tongue properly are all sights all too common.
The Internet is making it better, sure, with the kind of people to buy that kind of books preferring e-readers and pirating books...
Also, if in Soviet Union, you get errata-ed, what, in the rest of the world, the errata gets you?
CanRay
Aug 25 2011, 06:45 PM
QUOTE (PittsburghRPGA @ Aug 25 2011, 01:10 PM)

I can tell, but some folks might not know just how much an editor gets in the rpg field.
In the rpg industry, typically a penny a word and usually, a copy of the final product too.
Seems fairly standard too.
Of course, this also requires the project manager to accept all of your edits, which doesn't always happen. Or stop them from sending the pre-edit version to the printers by mistake.
Cordially,
Eric Kiefer
Co-Editor Player's Guide to Blackmoor, Editor Riders of the Hak.
Oh, you'd love me and my work then.
Kirk
Aug 25 2011, 09:24 PM
QUOTE (PittsburghRPGA @ Aug 25 2011, 02:10 PM)

I can tell, but some folks might not know just how much an editor gets in the rpg field.
In the rpg industry, typically a penny a word and usually, a copy of the final product too.
Seems fairly standard too.
Of course, this also requires the project manager to accept all of your edits, which doesn't always happen. Or stop them from sending the pre-edit version to the printers by mistake.
Cordially,
Eric Kiefer
Co-Editor Player's Guide to Blackmoor, Editor Riders of the Hak.
Cripes, you're underpaid. But knowing what I do of the RPG (heck, the whole gaming) industry that's not an atypical thing.
CanRay
Aug 25 2011, 09:25 PM
Hell, in this economy, it's great to have any job...
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