Really, did you? Where again did you post a review of this pdf (the preview at least)?

I refer to the Post of yours I replied to... You Panned Riggers, and I replied...
Relax Man, its all good...

Lovely mental image

On the issue of vectored-thrust MBTs, I suspect that the majority of front-line armor in 2073 is vectored thrust. The implication in a lot of the vehicles that're in the game is that modern (2073, that is) military doctrine puts a higher value on rapid response and mobility, even though in some cases making a slower, heavier vehicle would result in more armor. And, putting aside the question of how they have engines big enough to lift all that armor, the Stonewall was vectored when it first appeared in the Rigger Black Book.

Are they distinct from T-birds? Slower, near-ground only?

The vectored-thrust Stonewall was introduced as a MBT a long time in Rigger Black Book. As far as I can remember, tracked MBT were nowhere to be seen until SOTA:2063 and the Ruhrmetall KMA7C Leopard III heavy tank. War! also features the Aztechnology Cuanmitzli MBT[/i] as a tracked heavy tank. The Ocelot mentioned in MilSpecTech as a competitor for the Stonewall is tracked tank according to its stats in War!, albeit a light one.

Nifty. Thanks.

If I'm remembering the shadowtalk in RBB right - which I may not be - they have a max flight ceiling of something like 3, 4 meters, for pop-up attacks. So they're definitely distinct from T-birds. They never mentioned the speed at which the Stonewall moved, but the MilSpecTech PDF should answer that.

So more like a hovercraft.

Ok, Hermit and TJ having the same Avatar is... Annoying. I thought for a minute there that Hermit was arguing with himself, which was really, really odd.

[quote name='Yerameyahu' date='Jan 23 2011, 01:01 PM' post='1034893']
Ha, yeah, coming from *hermit*… Ouch. Hehe, I guess a scathing review is still a review, after all?

Does this book include suggested ways of telling your players to stop asking for this stuff? [quote]

Mostly the price tag and availability ratings. But mostly the price tag. Even Bull the Ork Decker, during the tail end of our game, wouldn't have been able to buy half the stuff out of the book, and would only have been able to get a handful of the rest (I think I sat on about 5 Mill Nuyen once or twice ).

Bull

hobgoblin: But how do they fare against the sands of Terra Nova? Hehe. Okay, thanks for the clarification.

Bull: Ha, good point.

Why not? Think the only review is an ass-kissing one? Besides, my review of the preview wasn't exactly what I'd call scathing, I just said there's room for improvement. And filling the MPUV page with shadowtalk so it would look less empty to the eye would be reasonably easy AND mean about a buck for the writer ... I don't get why he didn't.

For the record: I don't diss stuff to diss it, I diss stuff because it sucks. I didn't even diss the preview (did you even read what I wrote?). I just said it's odd with the MPUV, and that I didn't like TOD.

I think my biggest complaint is still with how underpowered they make railguns. I mean seriously, only 10P (-half)-6AP? Nice to see it's burst fire, although realistically unless it's multi-barreled I don't see how that would work tech wise, but then again, it's 60 years out. The other complaint is the range, I mean current testbed railguns have an accurate range of 6km, and they're going to do a hell of a lot more damage than a 10P equivalent when they hit.

Weapon damage is SR4 is generally stupid. For example, pistols bullets do not do as nearly much damage as rifle bullets. Just change it to something that makes sense to you.

Where exactly do you get the idea that MRSI can be used for auto fire, the whole entry for it never ever mentions more then 2 projectiles.

Wasn't there some concern over grenade spam breaking already fragile damage rules at high end? Someone had the Scribd page pulled so I don't have access to War! anymore.

For the record I feel like my life has improved as a result.

There is a reason why i have them disabled.

I have the "Craft Disturbing Image" ability.


Doctrine often shifts between armor, mobility, and firepower when it comes to tanks. Too much armor or too much gun and the engines of the era can't make them mobile enough. Fast but unable to take a hit or penetrate armor is equally useless. Able to smash anything but lack the ability to take a hit or move properly and you have an egg with a sledgehammer. The fight is to balance all three.

Or, rather, it was. Modern tanks are just disgusting in all three areas, for the most part, and their primary limitations now is fuel consumption. The creation of a usable Vertical Thrust Engine will return us to that fight for balance.

Also, you need production ability and trained manpower, which will be that much harder in the 6th World due to the decrease in a Country's ability to afford to have a large military. Especially in comparison to Corporations, which have a greater GNP, but have less inclination to having a full-on army for invasion purposes. Aztechnology (By it's proxy, Aztlan) being an exception, and a reason for CAS/NAN/South America-Based Corps to have a larger than standard defense force.

Desert Wars, of course, changes that a bit as well... But that's a ratings show rather than out and out war. But it does come into play.

I really missed that format. Gear lists are more efficient from a page-count perspective, but gear written up this way feels more real.

As for the specific gear in question, it is MilTech. Go get some, but don´t try to buy it (with your own money).


Avatars are even more ...iritating... if other people that share yours post opinions you hold yourself. "Yes, but I didn´t write that. Oh. Yes, I didn´t." I have them activated anyway.

Well, MPUVs would be easy enough to get. They're like Jeeps from WWII in the 1960s.

The rest, well... Drive it like you stole it. Because you probably did!

Or "drive it like you requisitioned it," depending on the campaign.

Yes there was, i'm just asking where their basing that as there's no indication that MRSI works with more then 2 rounds.

MRSI, as described on page 162, only works when the weapons fires twice in the same Combat Turn or fires with a flight time, and takes only two shots in consideration.

The rules for overlapping grenade blasts, on page 140 on the other hand, have no limit on the number of grenades involved.

all hail the barrage

Well no, but that one is actually a nerf on the power of grenades.
Before WAR if you in the blast radius of multiple grenade explosion you took full damage from all of them.

Also its quite sad that we still don't have rules for how to handle burst and automatic fire with grenade launchers

You also get to roll a separate resistance test for each of them. It is indeed a nerf if your average number of results on resistance test is less than half the DV of a single grenade, if you were going to take damage in the first place. So the rule actually makes killing high force spirits and armored vehicles far easier, as adding damage values help beating the hardened armor.

Ok, I bought it and this is my general overview with a quick look:

It is 39 pages long. Approximately 32 pages of actual stats.

One is a lot of vehicles each with its own picture. I like the blue background like they had for SR4a book pages. The artwork is more sketches or looks like the old mecha pictures you might see in robotech. The artwork is full color.

It gives the basic stats for vehicles and weapons. I did find it disappointing that it did not include dimensions or crew size. I also wish they had made it less an Ares Catalog and more having rules for building military grade weapons expanding on Arsenal. I think in some ways the heavy weapons are more in line with most of SR4a power levels rather than the superbunker busters they included in war!. I do not think it was worth the 7.95 pdf for what it had, but it does make me wish they had split war! into two books. The first having this old drone, milspech tech, and then having rule sections into War!. Then have a separate book with the hotspots of the world with politics, etc.

Oh, you mean actually talking about "War!" and not... Right, right, shutting up.

US$8 was pushing it for what I got, but, then again, I have a printer that prints cheaply and lots of sheet condoms and empty binders just lying around, so I'll be able to have a "Print Version" of the book for only a few dimes more. Canadian dimes at that!

The artwork seen in preview is bw art from 3e colored.

2E actually.

Still not sure if that's worth $8 for me.

How are the stats? Anything odd or out of the ordinary? Do they include standard features, and are they sane?

Also, what is the shadowtalk like? Do the characters stay in character and follow from previous works?

This was apparently put together without Jason's hand in it, so I'm curious what the rest fo the crew there is capable of.

First, Second and Third editions actually. Ferrari Appaloosa, Stonewall MBT, EFA comes from Rigger Black Book. MPUV, Devil Rat, Striker, C-260 Titan were in Fields in Fire, Halcon was in Rigger 3, plus Harpy Scout, Lobo, Moonlight Avenger and Aguilar added in the revised edition. Others, I don't know, some must be originals.

Gonna have to go find it, now. Does drivethru have it?

somebody did proof reading, that's for sure. The editor probably played SR before or at least might have read the core book/arsenal rules sections.

Yes, HERE.

According to the credits, that "somebody" included our very own Bull.



-k

*snickers*
probably because he also does the missions and has to deal with the official gear ^^

Eh, not really. It was mostly because I had access to the file and want to see our proofing improve.

Not sure what your source is on that last one, but I made a number of passes over this one. Sorry.

Jason H.

Ah, I may have misunderstood based on some of your comments on the official forum. I got the impression that you had been focusing on War! while this was being worked on by others. Sorry about that.

So if you had such a firm hand on this product, I have to ask you again why you thought it was a good idea to release a digital expansion on the themes of War! so quickly afterward. You seemed to say it was just how things happened, but I still think it's looks more like a willful attempt to double dip the majority of fans who purchase books for crunch. Especially now that we know the majority of Milspec consists of updates of vehicles from older editions.

Seems disingenuous to me.

First, let me be clear that most of the credit for MilSpecTech goes to Peter Andrew. I was involved, but he is the eBook developer and writer.

Second, I believed I already explained that question in another forum, but I'm happy to answer it here. Having a close relationship between the PDF line and the print line seems like a good idea to me, and having them feed off each other also seems like a good idea. We have two products that stand on their own, War! and MilSpecTech. Neither is needed to use the other. However, if you like military gear and want some more, you have that option. If you just want some gear and don't want the Bogota and war background information, you also have that option. If you want it all, you have that option, too. Neither book is crippled without the other, so the accusation of double-dipping seems odd. I mean, yes, any book with crunch is going to appeal to fans of crunch. That's the nature of the books. But I'm not going to stop releasing books of crunch simply because we did one recently. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Jason H.

I see your perspective, but like I pointed out over on the official forums it appears as though you are holding back material that could have been part of War! so you can charge an additional $8 for it.

I think I could see it your way if Milspec included the gear from War! as well. That would basically make the plot section of the book it's own option without tying it to the crunch provided. But now we're talking about modular product and I don't think you're there yet.

I know a lot of players who like to get all the crunch books because they feel that constitutes "the game" because of the player options; fluff books being more the realm of GMs. As it stands, it appears like you need to purchase a book with 110 pages of Bogota if you want the rest of what you see in Milspec, or pay $8 for the rest of War! depending on what product you buy first. I know you disagree with that perspective, but it does seem odd considering the gap between other companion products like Digital Grimoire.

That one I didn't mind at all, I was about ready for some more magic options and it didn't feel like being hit twice even though AH basically admitted it was full of stuff that either got cut for space or just needed more work before being published. I think it's odd that that approach wasn't taken with War! and Milspec. The fact they both contain crunch for a game that's been starved for new gear seems suspect to me. On one hand you provided it, on the other you put it in two products and loaded one with a lot of setting fluff.

I guess I'm just saying that it could have been handled better, and I'm telling you because you are the person who is ultimately responsible for it.

I believe that having products that work together yet also are fully functional is a good thing. The eBook developer and I agreed on this timing, and I think the overlap works--just like the overlaps we're planning between Missions and the print products. All the products will function fine on their own, but they'll also work better together. I see that as adding value to the products. Others are free to see it as they will.

Jason H.

Fair enough. It's true we're free to purchase products or not.

I agree with making sure that products work well together, though. Not to sound like a low blow, but you might want to take another look at some of the crunch in War! if you're going to take that particular line.

On one side, people who feel they won't like War! (Raises hand) can still get MilSpecTech to get some military goodies. On the other, it looks like a cash grab of two items that could have been in one.

Frankly, Video Gaming is seeing the same argument going on right now over DLC.

And what does that teach us, children? Fans love to whine and complain no matter what happens.

Or, that the consumer always gets screwed. Or both. Hehe.

Picked it up. Fast read, which is nice. Do wonder what the crew and passenger complements on these are, though - I realize we don't get those often, but sometimes it's a nice-to-have.

Pros: Initial runthrough looks good. I'm very glad to see that the editing problem was fixed with this book. This also offers a lot of art, and a lot of Jackpointer commentary. It also has a JackPoint intro, which makes it feel more "Hey, this is SR4!" It's a serious book about serious gear. Now we know what's being used in the hotspots around the world. Cute mentionings of Desert Wars as well.

Cons: A fast read. This book is 39 pages. First page is cover, second page is Jackpoint, third page is the Ares catalog graphic, fourth page dives right in. Each entry is a picture, a short blurb that's to the point, two to three Jackpointer comments, and the compact stats on the vehicle or vehicle weapon.

Overall I'm pleased with the purchase. The gear is useable, customizable, I highly doubt any of my players will get their hands on it () but it's nice to see that I have stats now for anything that might get thrown against them, from cars to planes to drones and boats.

I was surprised to see current-day systems revamped and resold, such as the Phoenix Missile, Phalanx cannon, and even the Striker. Commentary razzes all three, which is good - but man, these designs are dated.

This product stands well on its own. It makes bare mention of a few hotspots around the world, primarily SouthAm but also Africa. Desert Wars was mentioned. Enough teasers to make one mildly curious but not enough to say "SHIT I NEED ANOTHER BOOK?!" At twenty cents a page (roughly) it's worth the cost for the art, IMO.

Especially as the official description for the Millspectech is "We couldn't possibly fit all the cool military gear that's available into War! So more of it is in here!"

*shrugs* eh, works for me

It is interesting to note that the editorial quality of the book that apparently had more line developer oversight is notably less than the quality of the side product. By editorial quality I mean typos that would have been caught in a simple word spell check (i.E. carniverous) or by reading over (rebel sells instead of rebel cells), wonky picture placement, and no clear structure to the project, with the Bogota/AzAm war fluff section being interrupted by an essay on life in warzones in general. Nevermind content problems such as mocking holocaust victims and very real, real-world issues in Europe, or mistakenly assuming the Andes don't exist.

I don't complain about a book containing additional vehicles supplementing War! being published. I think the format of the eBook is superior in all ways to that of War!, nevermind some errors in vehicle stats in reference to the pictures (next time, AAS and the ebook author might want to coordinate that more closely). However, without the Mega Damage rules of War!, I can't see the tanks in MilSpec working well, so I doubt MilSpec is a true standalone product. That's okay, I don't expect it to be.

Just don't try to sell it to me as one.