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pbangarth
Hey guys, we're getting into a gun control discussion here. It could get the thread closed down.
Sengir
QUOTE (Fatum @ Feb 7 2011, 10:03 PM) *
Russian forces had pretty solid chances in the First Euro War (for some unknown reason) - at least they'd been pressing forward throughout the campaign.
And yes, AfA forces attacked Russia through the Caucasus region. Vladimir Danko is a well-known hero of that war, having crushed a superior zealot force under Stavropol with nothing but a box of scraps and several battered units. Which landed him on the pole position to run for General Secretary after Ogurznev's demise - but the UGB messed up his cards over the Polish deal.

The way I imagine (let's face it, that's the best one can do about the Eurowars) it is that both sides were trying to push the front in the direction of the respective enemy, which lead to a bloody stalemate. Keeping that pressure to counter the enemy's pressure however bled out both sides until they were close to collapse, with both sides fearing they would collapse within a week while the enemy could keep up the pressure for eight days. When that deadline drew closer both sides dusted off their Cold War plan, which for the Russians meant using nukes to finally achieve a significant breakthrough, while the West prepared to plaster the imminent Soviet breakthrough with nukes. At which point the Nightwraith Incident happened, before the war became at tit-for-tat game of "we nuke a hole in your lines - we nuke your beachhead".

And where can I read up on that Caucasus story, Shadows of Asia?
CanRay
QUOTE (Fatum @ Feb 7 2011, 05:45 PM) *
I'm considering working to move to Canada one day; but why move when you can't buy an AK or AUG on the day of arrival, right?

Ha. Ha ha. HAHAHAHA! MUH-HA-HA-HA!!! *Develops fully into The Joker laugh*
Fatum
QUOTE (Sengir @ Feb 8 2011, 03:32 AM) *
The way I imagine (let's face it, that's the best one can do about the Eurowars) it is that both sides were trying to push the front in the direction of the respective enemy, which lead to a bloody stalemate. Keeping that pressure to counter the enemy's pressure however bled out both sides until they were close to collapse, with both sides fearing they would collapse within a week while the enemy could keep up the pressure for eight days. When that deadline drew closer both sides dusted off their Cold War plan, which for the Russians meant using nukes to finally achieve a significant breakthrough, while the West prepared to plaster the imminent Soviet breakthrough with nukes. At which point the Nightwraith Incident happened, before the war became at tit-for-tat game of "we nuke a hole in your lines - we nuke your beachhead".

And where can I read up on that Caucasus story, Shadows of Asia?

Both sides were trying, yet only one was advancing steadily throughout the campaign.
And yes, the Caucasus story is from Shadows of Asia, see the subchapter going on about Vladimir Danko.
CanadianWolverine
QUOTE (Fatum @ Feb 7 2011, 03:45 PM) *
I'm considering working to move to Canada one day; but why move when you can't buy an AK or AUG on the day of arrival, right?


Oh man, SSC or AMC towns/villages have those crazy awakened wild life, I don't blame you for being nervous if you can't pack some automatic gear for those skills. You planning on getting extracted by one of the NAN's local corps or you gonna just go freight with a smuggler and hop the border?
Sengir
QUOTE (Fatum @ Feb 8 2011, 05:22 AM) *
Both sides were trying, yet only one was advancing steadily throughout the campaign.

SoE page 13: Despite a massive Russian push which overcame the initial definesive lines, the whole thing came to a standstill at the Elbe (i.e. the old inner-German border). Same thing in the old DidS, Russian troops circumvented the heavy defences at Berlin and got bogged down at the Elbe.
Fatum
QUOTE (CanadianWolverine @ Feb 8 2011, 10:45 AM) *
Oh man, SSC or AMC towns/villages have those crazy awakened wild life, I don't blame you for being nervous if you can't pack some automatic gear for those skills. You planning on getting extracted by one of the NAN's local corps or you gonna just go freight with a smuggler and hop the border?
As an exemplar corp drone, I'm planning on getting employed in some subsidiary of CAT leftovers, and then getting transfered to their home turf.

QUOTE (Sengir @ Feb 8 2011, 05:29 PM) *
SoE page 13: Despite a massive Russian push which overcame the initial definesive lines, the whole thing came to a standstill at the Elbe (i.e. the old inner-German border). Same thing in the old DidS, Russian troops circumvented the heavy defences at Berlin and got bogged down at the Elbe.
Yeah, and it was the second stalemate achieved in that war. So yes, that particular Russian offensive came to a halt - just like the one before it.
That does not in any way mean that neither Russia nor the Europeans had the resources left to break the enemy lines - just that at that particular moment, things hung in a balance.
Sengir
QUOTE (Fatum @ Feb 8 2011, 10:23 PM) *
Yeah, and it was the second stalemate achieved in that war. So yes, that particular Russian offensive came to a halt - just like the one before it.
That does not in any way mean that neither Russia nor the Europeans had the resources left to break the enemy lines - just that at that particular moment, things hung in a balance.

DidS, page 28:
The counter offensive of the united German, Polish, Ukrainian and exile Baltic forces commences at April 27, '32 with a massive air strike on Russian advance elements, the ground war begins two months later. The united forces fail to gain significant successes, either, resulting in the war dragging on till January '33, with the occasional armored advance and conventional missile exchange. As the supply shortages take on a dramatic scale threatening to topple the system, Moscow prepares to push the Red Button...
(my quick translation)

So the second Russian offensive sounds more like the Battle of the Bulge to me, with the difference that both sides were severly depleted.
Fatum
QUOTE (Sengir @ Feb 9 2011, 07:26 PM) *
DidS, page 28:
The counter offensive of the united German, Polish, Ukrainian and exile Baltic forces commences at April 27, '32 with a massive air strike on Russian advance elements, the ground war begins two months later. The united forces fail to gain significant successes, either, resulting in the war dragging on till January '33, with the occasional armored advance and conventional missile exchange. As the supply shortages take on a dramatic scale threatening to topple the system, Moscow prepares to push the Red Button...
(my quick translation)

So the second Russian offensive sounds more like the Battle of the Bulge to me, with the difference that both sides were severly depleted.

Not really how it was described in SoE or SoA timeline blurb; what's DidS anyway?
Also, that'd explain the Nightwraith strike (though if you're bend on sending the world into a nuclear apocalypse, what's a couple of inferiors lost to you?)
Sengir
Deutschland in den Schatten, aka Germany Sourcebook.
Blade
QUOTE (Fatum @ Feb 9 2011, 08:29 PM) *
Not really how it was described in SoE or SoA timeline blurb; what's DidS anyway?
Also, that'd explain the Nightwraith strike (though if you're bend on sending the world into a nuclear apocalypse, what's a couple of inferiors lost to you?)

I think you're mixing up Nightwraith and Winternight.
Fatum
QUOTE (Blade @ Feb 10 2011, 12:47 PM) *
I think you're mixing up Nightwraith and Winternight.

I think not.
Actually, I think you should reread our discussion. Otherwise it seems like you're mixing up the 60ies and the 30ies.
Kid Chameleon
QUOTE (Fatum @ Feb 10 2011, 12:52 PM) *
I think not.
Actually, I think you should reread our discussion. Otherwise it seems like you're mixing up the 60ies and the 30ies.


The 30's had the bad Germans and the 60's the good Germans, right?

wink.gif
Fatum
Nope. The 30ies had the good Germans, and the 60ies didn't have Germans at all, but they had bad Scandinavians.
Scandinavians apparently prepared to be bad for the thirties, but it took them a bit, as usual.
Faraday
QUOTE (CanadianWolverine @ Feb 7 2011, 11:45 PM) *
Oh man, SSC or AMC towns/villages have those crazy awakened wild life, I don't blame you for being nervous if you can't pack some automatic gear for those skills. You planning on getting extracted by one of the NAN's local corps or you gonna just go freight with a smuggler and hop the border?

"No cargo. Just myself, the boy, two drones... and no questions asked. ..."
CanRay
QUOTE (Kid Chameleon @ Feb 10 2011, 05:23 PM) *
The 30's had the bad Germans and the 60's the good Germans, right?

Whoa, wait, there's GOOD Germans?

Man, has cinema ever steered ME wrong! nyahnyah.gif
Doc Chase
QUOTE (CanRay @ Feb 11 2011, 01:39 AM) *
Whoa, wait, there's GOOD Germans?

Man, has cinema ever steered ME wrong! nyahnyah.gif


Judging by the movies based in Germany I've watched over the past decade or two, it's still World War II, swastikas are being carved into the heads of soldiers, and the mob is forcing some girl to run around and acquire money so her boyfriend doesn't die.

Right?

...Guys?
Mardrax
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Feb 11 2011, 04:28 PM) *
and the mob is forcing some girl to run around and acquire money so her boyfriend doesn't die.

Wow. a Lola reference. Thanks for giving me an idea for tonight. She just needs some shadow to be an awesome shadowrunner.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Feb 11 2011, 04:41 PM) *
Wow. a Lola reference. Thanks for giving me an idea for tonight. She just needs some shadow to be an awesome shadowrunner.


biggrin.gif
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