In real life, a USA dollar is worth around 100 Japanese Yen (give or take).

For the future they wanted the UCAS and CAS dollars to be devalued compared to the USA dollar, and they wanted Japanese currency to have become the world currency (much like the dollar is in real life).

However, from a game design point of view, the game currency having the same buying power as a real life dollar makes estimating prices for anything not listed in the books easy.

So: 100 Yen ~ $1 (USA) ~ 1 Nuyen ~ $3 (CAS) ~ $4 (UCAS)

See Nuyen at the Sixth World Wiki for more detail.

In real life, a policeman in Calgary thinks that paranormal animals and a Megacorporation run by the Yakuza are coming to kill everyone in one of the few cities in Canada where you can carry a pistol with the right license and training. (OK, it's only at one time of the year, and will still get you looks, but still, that's better than most places in Canada!).

Truth is far stranger than any fiction.

Its better than Pennsylvania gun laws. Here you can carry a gun after your license is revoked because you can just go "Hey Florida, I want a gun" and Florida goes "Here you go, have a license" which is then valid in PA!

[bait]
Better??
[/bait]

Better? Well, let's see... An unarmed victim versus an legally armed person with the proper training that criminals don't even want to try anything with. I know which side of the fence I would like to be on.

Note that I stated they were allowed to wear pistols. As in "Unconcealed".

As an aside to get us back on track, I bet this police officer also thinks the Gun Registry is a good idea and is working, and will not be used to slowly make various forms of firearms illegal and then rounded up to be destroyed, just like was done in England.

Just to counter the argument of "legally armed citizens" look at Arizona:
Loosest gun control in this country and not one person at the shooting the other week was carrying a gun with which they could have confronted Jared Loughner with. Everyone at that rally could have had a gun but none of them did, thus invalidating the self-defense rational.

Anyway, enough politics for me before I get banned. :X

And Counter to Counter before I get banned too: Is that failure of the laws allowing you to arm yourself or a failure of those present to be armed? Also, as I recall, one person was armed, but due to the crowd did not shoot for fear of hitting innocent bystanders.

People expecting any law (pro gun or anti-gun) to be the pnacea for eliminating crime is highly delusional. It is just opposing opinions on how to deal with it.

Back on topic please!

Actually, to be more precise, there WAS one responsible gun-owning citizen legally carrying a concealed weapon at the shooting. He stepped out of a store as it was going down, and ran toward the site, flicking the safety off and getting ready to shoot the guy with the gun...

...which was one of the heroic unarmed civilians that had tackled the gunman and wrestled the gun out of his hand. If another of the unarmed civilians hadn't told him to drop it (lest he look like the gunman), the responsible gun-owning civilian would have mistakenly shot him.

The fantasy of the heroic armed citizen shooting the crazed gunman and saving everyone is possibly the most common adolescent fantasy I can think of, in terms of seeing so many people buy into it against all evidence of how things go in real life.

(Note: as a Calgarian, I am quite happy with the notion of nobody ever walking around with a handgun other than the police, Stampede or no Stampede. inbefore "BUT CRIMINALS")

That's pretty much my point. Things "don't work that way."

Wasn't aimed at you, was just kind of musing out loud by that point.

I can think of an Israeli classroom that could tell you otherwise.

But, yes, back to the idiot cop who thinks Shadowrun is IRL.

*Nods vigorously in much agreement*

Someone must have e-mail him, they pulled the slideshow down.

Pfff. Mitsuhama just didn't want the truth getting out.

Did anyone happen to save a copy?

It might still be in browser cache, but it'd be hard to locate.

I didn't. I have enough of the stupid in my head already from working Tech Support. I don't need any more.

There is also a issue of being confused with the gunman once police shows up.

If someone ups and starts shooting in a group of people that do not know each other, and others attempt to return fire, there is a likelihood that they will confuse each other for the initial shooter.

Hell, even military forces manage to shoot at their own (blue on blue i think the US term is). This thanks to misreported locations, not being able to tell the enemy from the friendly (thats why there was brightly colored uniforms in use for centuries, to counteract that problem) and various other issues that gets lumped into "fog of war".

Most of the bullets that get fired in real combat wind up missing their target. Not even talking about suppressive fire here, but in a relatively close quarters firefight with armed police officers or soldiers. And those bullets GO SOMEWHERE. I know it's not modeled in most RPGs other than the occasional "shooting into melee" rule for hitting people fighting hand to hand, but bullets that miss your target, when that target is in a crowded area, have a decent chance of hitting a bystander. So the more people shooting in a crowded area, the more bullets flying, potentially, at bystanders...

This usually isn't factored into the "if only some law-abiding person at a mass shooting had a gun" scenarios.

EDIT: Actually, something just popped into my head to make this SR-related. Even if there aren't many rules for it, this issue is mentioned in SR's setting itself. Namely, one of the perils of running in (or living in, or visiting legally, for that matter) Aztlan. That any legally authorized security forces in the country (which includes Aztechnology corpsec, naturally) shooting at a lawbreaker (meaning, anyone they feel like shooting at) that hit a bystander add the charge involved in the shooting of said bystander (aggravated assault, attempted murder, murder, etc) to the "lawbreaker"'s list of charges. So if some Aztlan cop guns down three innocent bystanders trying to bring in some guy, said guy will be facing three additional murder charges if he gets caught. Oh, Aztlan sourcebook. You still so good.

Surprisingly, Deadlands had rules for stray bullets... I called it the "Little Suzy" rule, which made the group very sensitive about firearms and spraying weapons everywhere. (I explained it as such "It might take time, but for every bystander that could possibly be hit will have a chance. That includes Little Suzy down the road.").

This got to be even scarier in Deadlands: Hell On Earth when Full-Auto weapons became common. The group still chose Semi-Automatic or Lever-Action weapons rather than them. That, and bullets are expensive. (One of my favourite intimidation lines: "You're currently $4 worth of annoyance. My bullets are worth $5 each. Don't become worth more dead than it costs for the bullet.").

Which is a good reason for using ammo that isn't APDS or Regular ammo. Most of them don't "Overpenetrate", which means going through Thug #4 in the credits and hitting, well, Little Suzy.

Loot more bullets than you use killing the looted.
For armed thugs, this is always the case.
Problem solved.

That's actually one of my favourite mini-drama devices: A figure comes around the corner, he obviously noticed something in his periphal vision and the huge piece he's carrying starts traversing towards you. What do you do?

Ha.

Ha ha ha!

MUH-HA-HA-HA!!!

Why do you think a bunch of thugs were willing to pick a fight with a group like the PCs to begin with? They had almost nothing and wanted what they had, all or nothing.

Also, when they realized just how big a fight they had on their hands against the PCs, they flipped the selctor switches from "Semi-Auto" to "Full Auto" in the hopes that it would make a difference. I had a player cry at the bullets lost from that.

For video game junkies, another good example of "Bullets as Currency" is Metro 2033.

I presume that 1) it takes more bullets to kill a PC than it does to kill a thug 2) thugs won't engage without enough ammo to reliably end the PC.
On that assumptions, killing a thug statistically brings you net ammo gain.

Deadlands is weird that way. Most Humans are equally easy to kill. Doesn't matter how powerful or skilled you are, the bullet hits you, you're hurting.

PCs are more likely to have body armour, which helps out a little. That's it. It's a deadly and unforgiving system when it comes to that. Which my players were happy with, actually.

You can quote theoreticals until you're blue in the face. All I know is, the number of shootings in places with concealed carry (or where someone was carrying concealed even though it's not normally permitted) are fewer and last less time with fewer casualties than places where concealed carry is limited. I'm not aware of a single example of a good guy getting shot because he was carrying and mistaken for a bad guy. I think the threat is overstated in real life, and it's overstated in SR. This is precisely why SR has such tight gun control - the only people with guns are the bad guys (which, in SR, includes the police), and why you don't try extractions in Ares facilities without a LOT of body armor.

Stray bullets hitting people are extremely unlikely in most situations. Unless you're shooting into a crowd, normally people are so separated that the odds of a ray randomly hitting one, hitting them in a life-threatening location, and hitting them without passing through a foot or two of material prior, is pretty low. It is more of an issue with high-powered rifles, since they can punch through more material, but even then, it's not something I'd bother writing mechanics for (again, shooting into crowds nonwithstanding).

Without getting into the gazillionth gun control discussion, cum hoc non est propter hoc. If statistics indicate a correlation between A and B this MAY indicate that one causes the other. Or it MAY indicate that both are caused by a common factor C (for example, places with lots of people often have "no weapons" policies, places with lots of people also draw somebody who wants to kill lots of people). Or it MAY just be coincidence.

By the way, there is a significant correlation between birth rates and the stork population in Germany.


Or the kid who wants to defend his family, when you are running in the barrens. Or your teammate, if your tacnet is jammed. Or Mr. J's reinforcements...

Or John Q. Wageslave who just got his Colt Asp at Weapon's World because he was tired of being pushed around by that gang on the bus.

Traveller only did that for two guns, the Plasma Gun, Man Portable and the Fusion Gun, Man Portable (or PGMP and FGMP respectively). Simply because they had a 50-50 chance of outright killing the toughest dude ever wearing the best armor ever.



"The critical question is this: do elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?"
--Dwarf Fortress

Not to mention the internationally present correlation between ice cream consumption and both shark attacks and deaths by drowning. Sharks must like their ice cream.

Statistics are awesome.
(Insert XKCD strip about "by the end of the month you'll have 30 husbands!")

True, but getting to that level of proof would require the cooperation of the criminal element of society.

"Ganger A---why did you attack (or not attack) the man?"
Ganger A: I was innocent!! or Where's my lawyer?

To those not understanding of the US gun control debate it boils down to who is ultimately responsible for your physical saftey. In the US courts it has been upheld that the the police are not responsible, you are --IIRC it involed a stalker who knifed his victim. The family sued the city because they did not enforce the restraining order.

To that end is it safer to remove guns from the genral populace or safer to have the poluace the choice to be armed? Problem is those that don't want be armed think that everyone else should be unarmed (otherwise they are unsafe or at the mercy of the armed folk). While those that choose to be armed, do so cause they feel that the police/state cant protect them, and it is their responsibility (as pointed out in the court case).

Hahaha, what? SR has tight gun control? You can legally own whatever, up to an including an assault rifle!
Only bad guys have guns? There's a number of pistols which are described as "Folkspistole", something your usual passers-by would carry. That is, everyone or nearly everyone is packing, especially in the poorer parts of the Sprawl, and even fashionistas wear armoured suits.
Well, maybe everyone are bad guys, that's a viable option...


DF taught me all I know. Now sorry, I gotta go grab myself some pretty *cave spider silk socks*
Also, unless it involves lava, you're doing it wrong.

It depends on whether or not you consider anything under a Heavy Pistol as 'armed'.

Fixed that for you.

That's messed up. Sharks don't have tongues, they must get ice cream headaches like crazy.

Ah yes, that one I did not think about.

Been ages since I last actually played, before the whole army arc - Toady added a lot of stuff, and as always, a lot of game-breaking bugs.
I decided I won't play until those are ironed out, and I'm not hearing about any bug-fixing releases any time soon, at least not until the rolling out of the caravan arc.

That's why they're always thrashing around in the water.

Same. Waiting for the new version with bees. Those kinds of bugs are fun.

If the police/state can't protect them, we should have a police state instead! Combined forces for more power!

Most semi-auto or single fire handguns and rifles you can own and transport with a permit. "Transport" is not the same as concealed carry.

So you need a permit to:
Own a weapon
Transport a weapon between two places you may legally keep said weapon.

To get a permit you must have a SIN, which implies you must be a moneyed individual. Most of the population cannot get a permit to own a firearm.

I see no rules for concealed carry in Seattle, so presumably it is not permitted.

This is more draconian than the most 'controlled' states in the US. From my understanding, that's comparable to England, where no firearms may be purchased without a license, and you can only carry them between places where you can legally store them. So yes, I'd call that tight gun control.

The only weapon that you can legally carry in Shadowrun without a license is a Taser.
It doesn't mention how hard it is to get a license.
There are also entire parts of the world where noone is going to check if you have a license, because law&order is just not there.

But he's right, the Shadowrun rules for carrying a gun are way more restrictive. Although I believe that with a license, you can in fact conceal carry a weapon. Or open carry for that matter.

Uh, with SINs now being handed around freely, everyone can get a permit (at least anyone who can afford it).
And even if you don't have a SIN, you still can buy whatever as long as you stay in the barrens with it.

*shrugs* Presumably-shresumably.

In Russia, you can't own anything at all besides hunting rifles (actually, you need to own a hunting shotgun for 3 years before you can even buy a rifle).
And you can only transport the weapon disassembled and unloaded when you go hunting or to a certified shooting range. And of course, you need a gazillion permits for a gun.
Somehow, compared to that, being able to legally purchase assault rifles doesn't seem that bad.

Well you can only buy the AK-97
The Ares Alpha and the HKXM30 are all Availability F.

Ares has Weapons World subidiaries where you can walk in and purchase guns up to and including SMG's (if Robert N. Charrette is to be believed). The existence of WW itself suggests to me that said license is merely another form of weapon tracking, saying that PJSS belongs to Bob Whittaker, VP of Finance(and leaving for a safari on Monday, a perfect time for an extraction).

In RL, most US states don't require any type of license for anything short of a Class-III destructive device - which is what anything automatic is qualified under, unless you are law enforcement or military. Any 'gun license' is simply a registration card saying what gun you own, or a CCW permit which is $50 and an internet course in the state of Utah.

Or Canada, where you need a license to acquire/own a firearm, and they need to be registered.

This includes some Pellet Guns, Flintlock Rifles and Smoothbores, and a few other odds and ends.

Oh, and the license to sell Airsoft also entitles you to store Nuclear Weapons and Weapons-Grade Nuclear Material. (No, I'm not joking.).

Breaking down the discussion about gun control to a single question is hardly adequate, many own guns for completely different reasons. Also, the actual ruling of Gonzales v. Castle Rock is a far cry from the sweeping generalization certain people read into it...and why should anyone pay for a police force which has no obligation to do their job?


Anyway, back to Shadowrun before we get smacked by Grinder: AFAIK the Russian invasion was bogged down in east Germany, when both sides realized they could not keep their positions much longer and reached for the Red Button, the Nightwraiths happened. Not sure about the Great Jihad though, did that take a detour via the Caucasus?

Not only the AK. Besides, what, AK is not an assault rifle now?
Yeah, you're not getting that grenade launcher legally, but it'd be naive to expect.

Don't you also have automatic weapons and everything shorter than a certain length banned?

Russian forces had pretty solid chances in the First Euro War (for some unknown reason) - at least they'd been pressing forward throughout the campaign.
And yes, AfA forces attacked Russia through the Caucasus region. Vladimir Danko is a well-known hero of that war, having crushed a superior zealot force under Stavropol with nothing but a box of scraps and several battered units. Which landed him on the pole position to run for General Secretary after Ogurznev's demise - but the UGB messed up his cards over the Polish deal.

Not sure. I only know the details as the family and friends had to register their firearms. And my local hobby shop/army surplus store attempted to get an Airsoft License and we found out they could store Nuclear Materials if they got it. But, knowing the Canadian Government and their stance on Gun Control, probably.

One of the few reasons I was sad to see the Reform Party disband. The rest of the parties are either For Gun Control (Which disarms civilians in their homes/property against criminals and wild animals in my mind.), or lukewarm.

Oh, and, yes, it was a hot topic issue an election or two ago, and the party that got into power went in on the promise of getting rid of the Registration of Firearms. And, of course, they didn't. It's a great place to scoop money from, and makes it "Appear" that they're doing something "To make people safe" while illegal firearms on the street aren't effected at all.

I'm considering working to move to Canada one day; but why move when you can't buy an AK or AUG on the day of arrival, right?