If I wanted to make an effective shadowrunner who specialized in the use of a bow (not a crossbow), how would I go about it and what should I keep in mind? I'd rather not make him a troll, no matter how optimal that might be.

Then make him an Ork. Adept too.
Max out strength, max out adept powers that help with the bow shooty skill.
get the bow modified as far as possible.

Don't forget the stupid bright green robin hood costume.

Yeh, you can get points for that.

Distinctive Style? I heard Distinctive Style.

Sounded like Compulsive to me.

We all heard distinctive style.
beauty of it all?
you can switch it off, due to clothes with ruthenium polymer covering . .

Is there a way to make a cybered archer? Can you even put a smartlink on a bow?

Of course you can.
And with MRSI Software, you now get what smartlink should have been capable of doing from the start too!

MRSI? Is that from 'War!'?

Yes, yes it is. Indeed. WAR! has made the TrollBowyers from the Troll Kingdom Schwarzwald in Germany the most feared Army-Unit in the World again ^^

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe Baron Von Vanderplufe is a scarier fellow than I thought...

I don't have WAR! What is MRSI, and is it pronounced "mercy"? Because if it isn't, it should be.

Wouldn't that be a smartgun on a bow?
Smartlink is the add-on you stick into your image-link enabled visual sensor.
Or into your BRAIN if you're a technomancer.

The reason most people suggest Adept is that it's the most effective way to boost the Archery Skill. For a cybered character, you'd have to use something like a custom set of optimized limbs for archery, and reflex recorders or similar

It is. WAR! does point this out actually <.<
MRSI(Multiple Rounds Simultanous Impact). Meaning you can fire TWO arrows from ONE bow.
And they will hit the same target at the same time and thus add their damage for one big hit instead of each doing it's own little damage.
And then you can do this with MORE than 2 Bows too . .

What.

IS IT GOOD FOR?

Yeah. It's an artillery targeting system meant to coordinate barrages, then goes into detail by saying, "Yeah, you can use archery with this too." The troll bowman unit can indeed fire a volley and have it all hit the same target.

I guess it makes mechanical sense, but talk about power creep!

And i repeat.
Seeing how this is a simple function of mathmatics/ballistics, a normal smartlink should allways have been able to do something like this.
Maybe you would have to have a mathmatical subprocessor linked to it for it to propperly work, but else? come on . .
And the Hardware-Requirements of the software are down right silly . .

The big issue for me has always been the single shot status of a bow, limited by the ability to ready arrows.

Purchase Krav Maga's benefit that makes readying weapons a free action, and you can fire one arrow and then two, alternating. Thats my understanding at least.

The other thing is the portability of a bow. Screw buying the collapsible one from arsenal, just get the easy break down upgrade on a normal bow. Definitely get a smartlink on that bow as well.

Good luck.

But only if You fire both Arrows in 1 Ini Pass
This can be done only either with an allready nocked Arrow
or with an Adept with Quickdraw

BtT
what about a Troll Archer Adept
(from the Schwarzwald with the name of Arnold Weißenegger )
An Ork with STR8 is also OK
You also need all the Gadget Arrows from Arsenal and even more
Plus a ....Smartquiver

Purchase Krav Maga's benefit that makes readying weapons a free action, and you can fire one arrow and then two, alternating. Thats my understanding at least.

Sorry but Krav Maga with Bows still makes me sick, can't loose that bad feeling


He who dances in the Black Forest
Medicineman

Awwww... I thought this was going to be about Sterling Mallory Archer.

Just to clarify by the way, I remember some discussion about this some time back (mainly on the silliness that is crossbows, IIRC) but wasn't able to find this:
What action is actually used to fire a bow, and by extension, is it simple or complex? From Medicineman's last comment, I'm deducing it's a simple action. Would that be Use Simple Object, or what?

maybe "Use Skill"? but I think bows should be SA, maybe SS. The Reloading is the time consuming part and takes only a Simple Action. Releasing the arrow will not take longer.
Imagine the MRSI Troll Archer with 4 IP and Quickdraw firing 4x2 arrows per combat round. He needs a very large quiver...

Edit: I think War! answered the question indirectly. As you need to fire two rounds in the same pass for MRSI to work, bows have to be SA. Am I remembering wrong?
Edit2: Arsenal is missing the Grappling Hook Arrowhead!

I'd call it somewhere between "Use Simple Object" and "Throw Weapon." Once the arrow is in the bow (that whole readying thing), I've seen archers raise the bow and fire with accuracy in about the same amount of time as an axe thrower raising and throwing.

Because the rules aren't clear, it really comes down to GM adjudication. I can see an argument for both sides, but my personal experience suggests that it should be a simple action. That way if you don't have the cool powers or techniques, it's load an arrow, fire an arrow each IP. Rather than Load an arrow, Take Aim on IP 1, Fire an Arrow on IP 2.

No:

Combat Turn != Initiative Pass.

If firing a bow is a simple action, like Use Simple Object would be, one could benefit from MRSI once every IP.
If it's a complex action, like Use a Skill would be, one could benefit from it once for every two IPs a character has.

Build him from Scratch

you don't need Adept for quickdraw. While Krav Maga is still too cheesy there's the Iaijutsu maneuver, with does the same...
btw a melee hardened bow is a very flavorful weapon with reach 1.

Edit: We need a rule for loading multiple arrows and shooting in a narrow or wide spread. Just like the dart fingers in AU.

It's a Simple Action which requires a Ready Weapon action to execute. If you don't use Krav Maga or Adept Quickdraw, Ready Weapon is a simple action, which makes it effectively a complex action to fire (simple ready + simple fire).

Actually, Archery, a Quickdraw Quiver(holster), and quickdrawwing your arrows to fire works pretty well. Just hope you don't glitch that archery+agility(2) test. You MAY need the martial arts maneuver Iajutsu to do this, because arrows are not a pistol. Don't bother with the adept power - its not worth it.

More technically, Ready Weapon allows you to ready a number of small things(technically, i think they are for throwing) equal to half your agility, round down. If you extend this to bows, using krav's 'ready as free', you can Ready Weapon (2 arrows), fire one, fire the other, and fluff it as having speedy archer arms. If you have agi 4+. Which you should.


After reading WAR, i was considering a sort of smartmetal bow: Call it a Victorinox Smartstaff - its like the smartblade in arsenal, except that instead of just a knife, it can do variations on spears, staffs, daggers, swords and the like, depending which combination of reach, bashing or slashing you want. Same kind of deal, really, that just happens to have a bow form too, which would do wonders for a concealed archer.
Sadly, I don't think I can use the modification rules to make such a device with RAW.

RAW is only the beginnings of wisdom. (A cookie for the first person to id the quote!)

or fire them both at once for a +1DV (narrow spread) or -1 dodging (wide spread)



convince the GM there's a secret unpublished War! errata which adds bows to the list. he can find the errata file some where in the resonance realms.

Speedy arms? Having several arrows in the off hand is the norm for faster styles of archery.

funny thing about bows: SR4A p.316 limits a bow's damage to Rating x1.5
a rating 1 bow which's damage is supposed to be 1+2=3 is limited to 1x1.5=2
this also limits starting characters, as the maximum gear rating at chargen is 6: bow DV=6+2=8, limited to 9, so net hits are limited to 1

The way I read "the maximum Damage Value an arrow fired from the bow can inflict", "inflict" is the key word.
DV after comparing net hits from Agi + Skill vs Rea isn't inflicted.
DV after substracting hits on the defender's Bod + armour - AP is.
I don't think net hits on the attack test should be limited, just the net ammount of actual pain this results in.

Actually, this is a fairly good idea. 'One Bullet Bursts' are already supported in the rules - arsenal's walther palm pistol, i believe.

And how would a bow be penalised for this? Recoil doesn't exist for bows.

The optional Strength For Recoil rule seems appropriately fitting.

If you're burst-firing from a bow, it doesn't make sense to ignore half the recoil rules that go with bursts.

Also, personalized grips are cheap.

bow are even more FOBAR then I had believed.

After reading this thread, while It was young BTW, I was inspired to make a campaign NPC by seeing how far I could push the Archery dice pools.

That went fine. what FMU was bow description in SR4A pg. 315

OK, so bows have a strength minimum of 12 or less. I understand this.
Bows do (Strength Minimum+2)P damage. OK easy too.
Bow ranges are determined by the Strength Minimum and according to the Weapon Range Table SR4A pg. 151. Check

What I don't understand is DV being limited to Strength Minimum x 1.5.
I know this to stop the Troll armies from "using metal telephone poles as ammunition" and coring tanks with a projectile weapon.

So, if my character's bow is Strength minimum 6, it's base damage is 8P and it's maximum damage is 9P.
The maximum is regardless of, what, anything? When does DV limit apply.

Only to the final amount of damage done to the target? As implied by the work "inflict" as mentioned previously?

Does the limit restrict the DV of (Base Damage + Net Hits)? Before or After the defense Test?

Is this limit absolute? Do, for example, MSRI or Called shots allow you to exceed the limit?

I don't know about MSRI, but Called shot, even in a system without hit locations,
always seems to me to imply greater effect from shot placement not simply increased power.

Even though SR mechanically accomplishes this, primarily, by adding to the DV in exchange for a dice pool penalty to the attack roll.

Nope, that'll be covered in Spy Games.

it's actually 8. it was reduced after the sr4a first print.
you'll find that in the SR4 changes document

I have both the pdf and the printed of SR4A. The pdf says 12, the print says 8. So 8 it is.
Yet another "version difference" to worry about.

But the changes doc says "base damage" what about the Strength Minimum x 1.5 DV limit?
No longer RAW? My print version seems to drop it entirely. but, It's in my pdf

Screw it, I'll go by the print and see if I can "find" a newer .pdf for when I'm on the go.

Thanks for pointing it out Makki.

OK, so a Bow with a minimum strength rating of 6, firing a rating-6 arrow has a base damage of 8P.
but the same bow, firing rating-4 arrows, would have a base damage of 6P.
This because the base damage is the lower of the strength rating of the bow or the arrow's gear rating, then add 2.
is that right

Arrows have ratings?

Yes sir. Need to know wether you're firing a pencil or a telephone pole.

Now there's a character concept: Highlander Troll with the Exotic Ranged Weapon: Caber.

"OH DEAR $DIETY! THE WIND BLEW UP HIS KILT! THE WIND... Um, why are you staring?" "I think I have a new boyfriend." "You're a Lesbian Elf Stripper Ninja." "I think I just became Bisexual."

Heh, you guys have succeeded in weirding me out over the arrow thing. Is this new?

From the changes document. Apparently a change made after the first printing of SR4A.

Makki pointed it out.

Heh, I actually checked that out, but somehow missed it. Thanks.

If you fire an arrow that isn't sturdy enough for a given pull weight, you generally end up with shattered arrow. In your eye.