I just noticed you could customize SURGE with changeling SURGE level I,II, or III. So how does this sound?
Cyclops with level II changeling for shiva arms. I'll just detail the important parts and leave out anything unrelated to bow DPS.
before mods:
10 STR
7 AGI (maxed with Exceptional Attribute and Genetic Optimization)
6 EDGE (for when you're feeling lucky and your target absolutely positively must die in the next 3 seconds)
spend the rest somewhere else.

max archery at 6 and specialize in bows for +2

Bioware to get:
+1 STR => muscle augmentation
+2 AGI => muscle toner
+1 AGI, STR => suprathyroid gland
+1 physical tests => enhanced articulation
+1 archery => reflex recorder
+2 initiative passes => synaptic booster

Final stats:
12 STR
10 AGI
7 archery

other equipment:
2 Rating 12 bows
ambidextrous to negate penalties for dual wielding bows
piles of explosive arrows
MRSI software

An attack with a bow will have DV 14+1=15 from the explosive arrows.
Two attacks per initiative pass allows you to use MRSI once per pass for a 30 DV attack.
Attack rolls for MRSI will be 9 (split pool and round up) + 2 (bow specialization) + 1 (enhanced articulation).

All in all, an MRSI attack is 30 DV + 12 dice pool (18 if edge used).

Maybe I could add infected or Adept on top of that with a few tweaks, but for now I'll do homework while I keep an eye on this Topic.

This is why I said no SURGE. Also, no leg eating.

Yeah, this is a fun hypothetical character I cooked up.

If the best character to pop into your head for a Shadowrun game is a four-armed SURGEling of a Cyclops...well...you're playing a different style of game than I am, at any rate. I hope the rest of your crew is as outlandish and over-the-top, or the odds are good you'll be the only one having fun.

I can't decide if this is a stab at power gaming in general, or if my power gaming was just subpar.
Rest assured, I don't intend to play this guy, but rather wanted everyone's opinions on how overpowered this character is. Jut let me know who/what you're comparing to please.

Yeah, I'll stick with a normal person with a burst Barrett or something. But this is still amusing to see worked out.

Speaking as his GM this thread is pure speculative optimization, right?

Yep.

Good, Proceed. I'm intrigued as to how much damage you can do to balance in this game.

Lol, I liked that idea too. No need to meddle with multiple arms or split my pool. Burst Barrett though? I was thinking of the Barrett SA sniper rifle.

I may regret this, but there's weapon mods in Arsenal that'll fix that for you.

In that case, this is good for taking down tanks and the like... with a bow .
A more appropriate character for normal campaigns would probably be an elven sniper with a Barrett though. 2 attacks per initiative pass and a good chance of killing someone with each is better for spreading the (tough) love.

Not that you need the burst bonus. The Barrett is already silly, plus silly ammo.

The pool split? you sure?

I assume he means the burst-iness. Even FA, but it's tough to get that much RC on a Longarm.

I meant SA Barret. There's a mod to increase firing rate.

I don't know about SR4 but in SR3 cyclopes got a penalty to non-melee attacks from no depth perception.

Cool, but I would prefer headshots over narrow or wide bursts.

Suppressing fire with a Barret.

I didn't see that in the book, but I thought about it. I also considered a bonus since you sight down a bow with one eye, and the cyclops would be rather used to that.

I remember that well. your machine gunner suppressed me in the face. Next time I meet one of those guys, I'll eat both his legs.

I know common sense has no place in Shadow Run, but how the hell do you sight down two bows at once?

A good question. My first answer would be TWO cyclops eyes. Metavariant cost for Diclops = Cyclops + 5?

But seriously, it's kind of a gray area. You can't use laser sights or smartlink enhancements to accuracy when dual wielding weapons. In light of that, I was thinking it would be more like sighting down the line between them.
OR, this was my thought the first time I heard about shiva arms: draw both bows down the same side of your body, and organize your hands accordingly (since you can't really draw a bow while facing your chest toward your target anyway).

Um, long burst *headshots*. Duh.

Called shot long burst. I will look that up sometime.

Don't forget the follow-up short burst (again, if you have the RC).

I'm not familiar with MRSI software - I assume it's from Arsenal? But I can comment on the other stuff:

A character with Shiva arms still has one dominant hand - to dual-wield bows, you would need to take the ambidexterity quality three times. Enhanced articulation adds to Physical skills, a category of skills, so it gives no bonuses to combat skills. Bows are capped at rating: 8 as of SR4A. Cyclops get -1 to their attack rolls (look up the cyclopean eye quality).

The trouble with rapid-firing bows is that you need the "ready weapon" simple action to reload them, and even if you take Krav Maga (to make that a free action - recommended), you only get one free action per initiative pass. So you wouldn't quite get two shots per round.

Whew, long post.
MRSI: it's from "war"

ambidexterity: why three times? I don't need two dominant hands to use one bow do I? I checked (apparently it's "ambidextrous", my bad), but I didn't see any hidden hooks of that sort.

enhanced articulation: I guess I misinterpreted. It said "Physical skills that are linked to Physical attributes" so that made me think "any skills linked to physical attributes" thanks for the catch.

cyclopean eye: I should've checked that. Thanks again.

bow cap: This is weird. I've seen the hardcopy (of the 20th anniversary core rulebook) and it's true, but the electronic copy (mostly identical) has a 12 STR cap. My GM says we can use this one for our meets.

attacks per turn: firing uses the same rule as dual wielding pistols (1 simple action p.157) so couldn't I use Krav Maga to reload one as a free action, and use my other simple action to reload the other?

Ya think that's bad, ya shoulda seen Trollbows in previous editions.



-k

D'oh, that's what I meant, War, nor Arsenal.

On the firing: yeah, I forgot you were dual-firing, so you only need one simple action for both bows, firing-wise. So you could fire twice per initiative pass.

*Does* firing two bows use the same action as firing two pistols? Most people can't even agree what action firing *one* bow uses.

I swear it's in the book, but I'm reading up on burst fire right now. That is scary stuff.

+1 physical tests => enhanced articulation
Just for the Records
Enhanced Articulation does not Help with any Combat Skills ,only with Physical Skills (like the Athletic Group)
Thats (sadly )RAW
I would've extended the Bonus to Dodge,Throwing and any close Combat Skill
But I'm not responsible for the Rules

with an extended Dance
Medicineman

One simple Action to fire the Bow and one to Prepare(load) it
For me its very simple(but I'm also a very simple Guy )

with two simple Dances
Medicineman

Medicineman: +5 rivalry

Yes MRSI is from WAR !
And I don't like it for Bows! It can only be used If You're able two Shoot 2 Arrows in 1 Round (physical Adepts with Quick Draw can)
At Least that is how I interpret the Rules for MRSI
Dominant Arms....
If your right Arm is dominant,than your right Arm is dominant and not ....Not-dominant! You would need Ambidexterity twice for both left Arms
,Shure, but I think its highly illogical to take Ambidexterity to make your right Arm equal to your right Arm,especially if Your right Arm is allready the dominant one

with an ambidextrous Dance
Medicineman

It's not your right arm. It's your upper-right arm, and your lower-right arm. You get one dominant hand.

But can you dual-wield your dual-wielded bows?




-k

You need to be able to attack twice in one turn. extra initiative passes can suffice for that in a bind.
I always interpreted quick draw as only working for drawing a weapon, but at least the method discussed earlier should work.

As for dominance, I guess that's one way to look at it. I tend to think that having more arms changes the rules. For example, you probably won't use both right hands simultaneously to eat, just as I don't shovel food into my mouth with both hands. That said, you'd probably develop a dominant upper right hand or something.

can't you say that ambidexterity gives you one more dominant hand? Then you can say that your upper right hand and your upper left hands are dominant.

This will still give you penalties for quad wielding pistols and swords but for bows where you only need one dominant hand each it should be fine.

If I'm missing something please show me the errors of my ways.

Shure you get a Dominant Hand/Arm, If you only have 1 Pair !
But.....

If you're Born with only One right Arm then its only one but If You're Born with two right Ones then its Both
I read an article recently about swedish Scientist that could fool the Brain of Testsubjects/Students to accept three arms. the Brain accepted Stimuli to/from a fake Arm.
And If the Brain can be fooled or trained to accept this, than its no Problem (at all ! ) to grow Up with two right Dominant Arms.
Handedness can be trained and changed ,so it makes absolutely
No Sense (to Me ) not having two dominant Arms if you have 4 Arms (like a Nartaki)
same as it makes absolutely no sense (to Me) to say that you have no dominant Hand/Arm at all

with a dominant Dance
Medicineman

Well, I'm not gonna turn down the chance to skip out on a quality. If the study says that's how it is, then let it be so.

If you're going to start judging Shadowrun by what makes sense to you, you're already off the deep end. The rule is one single specific hand is dominant.

after 26 Years of Playing RPG and 12-15 Years of Shadowunning,8 Years of moderating the two biggest German SR sites and supporting SR in Germany for 4 Years now ...Yes, I'm in the deep end
And Yes I always change what makes no sense to me/ to my Groups.
(And some of these changes appeared sooner or later in the Erratta, not only in SR )
but being in the deep end doesn't prevent You from being right
Just like being Paranoid doesn't prevent You from being followed

he who dances in the Dark
Medicineman

b-b-b-but... Powergam-I mean science agrees with Medicineman!

That's always been one of the more annoying omissions in the rules, to me. Like Medicineman, I assume a simple action to fire one (which still lets most bow-wielders only go once per round).

The basic rules stipulate two pistol-or SMG-class weapons for dual-wielding, but I don't think they were contemplating things like Shiva arms. Technically, letting someone with two pairs of arms dual-wield two bows using the second firearm rule... is a house rule. But a fairly logical one.

Honestly, it's not really worth it, in my opinion. Let's compare it to a normal bow wielder, who has Krav Maga to get ready weapon as a free action. First initiative pass, he readies an arrow, fires it, and readies another arrow. Second initiative pass, he fires an arrow, readies another arrow, and fires again. The dual-wielding archer, by comparison, basically gets one extra attack every other round. But unlike the normal bow wielder, he is splitting his dice pool in half.

If you can fire two bows for one simple action, and Krav Maga allows you to reload as a free action, then you still have one simple action left over. Can't you reload your other bow with that?
(Nevermind. I see you were thinking the same thing.)

*If* you can fire two bows as one simple action.

His post assumed the affirmative, so I decided to run with it.

no, you reload one bow with your Krav Maga free action reload, you reload the other bow with your first simple action and then fire both with your last simple action.

assuming all that has been assumed above