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Socinus
What is a Shadowrunner?

This is a question that's come up amongst our group lately; what, ultimately, drives a Shadowrunner? Is there a specific type of person that tends to be Shadowrunners?

My two cents is that Shadowrunners are like any other slice of (meta)humanity; you've got people in it for the money, in it for the ideals, in it for the experience, in it for the action, in it for the fun. Shadowrunners have widely varied personalities, approaches, and methods of handling their work. There is room for psychotic head-cases as well as play-it-cool Batman types and everything in between. The only real commonalities between most runners is a certain amount of moral flexibility (if you aren't actively doing something horrible, you are usually supporting or buying from people who are) and a sense of practicality.

Beyond that, it's all (meta)human nature.

What do you think?
Hamsnibit
Well, mate you just summed it all up.
Whats more to say?
Nifft
QUOTE (Socinus @ Apr 10 2011, 04:58 AM) *
What is a Shadowrunner?
A miserable little pile of secrets.

QUOTE (Socinus @ Apr 10 2011, 04:58 AM) *
This is a question that's come up amongst our group lately; what, ultimately, drives a Shadowrunner? Is there a specific type of person that tends to be Shadowrunners?
Yes: people who lack better options.

QUOTE (Socinus @ Apr 10 2011, 04:58 AM) *
My two cents is that Shadowrunners are like any other slice of (meta)humanity; you've got people in it for the money, in it for the ideals, in it for the experience, in it for the action, in it for the fun. Shadowrunners have widely varied personalities, approaches, and methods of handling their work. There is room for psychotic head-cases as well as play-it-cool Batman types and everything in between. The only real commonalities between most runners is a certain amount of moral flexibility (if you aren't actively doing something horrible, you are usually supporting or buying from people who are) and a sense of practicality.
Mmm. I don't think you can have people "in it for the ideals" if those same people are required to have "a certain amount of moral flexibility".

There's certainly room for a wide range between mirror-shade ice-cool operators and FUCK YEAH PINK MOHAWK, but nobody is a heroic Batman. They're either a disturbed, driven-by-crazy Batman or a desperate, law-of-last-resort Batman.
toturi
QUOTE (Nifft @ Apr 10 2011, 10:22 PM) *
Yes: people who lack better options.

Yes: people who are the best option.
Brazilian_Shinobi
there is a whole chapter in Attitude talking about this.
Basically, people who were born in a criminal enviroment and keep the way of life and people who has useful skills but somehow got rejected by the "Light" world and now must rely to the shadows to the survive.
ShadowWalker
Shadowrunners are like the Borg, but with less empathy.
http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/File:MPost11...ator8738167.jpg
CanRay
Or adrenalin junkies who are in it for the rush. They can't get out of the life even if they do make "The Big Score" and are able to retire.
Socinus
QUOTE (Nifft @ Apr 10 2011, 03:22 PM) *
Mmm. I don't think you can have people "in it for the ideals" if those same people are required to have "a certain amount of moral flexibility".

You've got a bunch of anti-fa and anti-corporate groups, runners could easily be running to fight against groups they see as evil or in need of destroying.
Yerameyahu
Sort of. Those people might resemble or interact with runners, but runners 'at their very base' are deniable assets in it for the money. They may be in it for other things *and* money, or they may be mercenaries available only to certain causes or for certain jobs (no wetwork, only wetwork, etc.), but they're freelance criminal mercenaries. They're not organized crime, corp-sec, revolutionaries, PMC, or anything like that.
longbowrocks
Here's my take:

The police often question him,
just because they find him interesting.
His beard alone,
has experienced more than a lesser man's entire body.
His blood,
smells like cologne.
He is,
the most interesting Shadowrunner in the world.

"I don't always take jobs, but when I do, I prefer Mrs. Johnson."
"If you know what I mean."
Method
QUOTE (Nifft @ Apr 10 2011, 09:22 AM) *
Mmm. I don't think you can have people "in it for the ideals" if those same people are required to have "a certain amount of moral flexibility".

There's certainly room for a wide range between mirror-shade ice-cool operators and FUCK YEAH PINK MOHAWK, but nobody is a heroic Batman. They're either a disturbed, driven-by-crazy Batman or a desperate, law-of-last-resort Batman.


There are those would rather live life as a SINless criminal, etching out a living anyway they can in the violent underworld of the shadows than give up their free will for the safe, easy, mindless, oppressive life of a corporate wageslave. That is an ideal and kind of the basic premise behind Shadowrun (the Shadows referring to those places outside the corporate sphere of influence where your PC is supposed to reside).

Plus there is a long tradition of "Hooding", which is cannon.

Saying that all Shadowrunners are emotionless, morally-void killers is boring. Ideals allow for shades of grey- like what lengths will your character really go to [find his long lost love] or [save his mom from that cancer] or [keep the kitten orphanage running]. Ideals are very much a shadowrunner trait, depending on the shadowrunner.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Method @ Apr 10 2011, 02:59 PM) *
There are those would rather live life as a SINless criminal, etching out a living anyway they can in the violent underworld of the shadows than give up their free will for the safe, easy, mindless, oppressive life of a corporate wageslave. That is an ideal and kind of the basic premise behind Shadowrun (the Shadows referring to those places outside the corporate sphere of influence where your PC is supposed to reside).

Plus there is a long tradition of "Hooding", which is cannon.

Saying that all Shadowrunners are emotionless, morally-void killers is boring. Ideals allow for shades of grey- like what lengths will your character really go to [find his long lost love] or [save his mom from that cancer] or [keep the kitten orphanage running]. Ideals are very much a shadowrunner trait, depending on the shadowrunner.


I feel like this is correct. To understand the underlying concept of the shadowrunner it is important to understand the themes from 80s cyberpunk fiction and the anti-corporate cultural zeitgeist present in popular science fiction of the time.
Tyro
QUOTE (Nifft @ Apr 10 2011, 07:22 AM) *
<snip>
Yes: people who lack better options.

Mmm. I don't think you can have people "in it for the ideals" if those same people are required to have "a certain amount of moral flexibility".
<snip>

You don't have to lack better options; some Shadowrunners do quite well for themselves and really enjoy their work. Furthermore, you can be morally flexible and still have ideals. For example, you could be morally flexible in some ways but an idealist in others, or you could be a hypocrite (I can just imagine a human supremacist who goblinizes or SURGEs and continues to rail against metahumans).
Glyph
I think at the core a shadowrunner may be a freelance criminal, generally hired for corporate espionage and sabotage as a deniable asset - some will be desperate, some will be idealistic, some will be professionals, and some will be deranged.

But the term shadowrunner also implies an elite status. This is why small-time criminals will hunger to be called shadowrunners, and why there will be endless debates about what a "real" shadowrunner is, among the criminal community.
CanRay
A Shadowrunner is someone that shoots people in the face for money. nyahnyah.gif
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Socinus @ Apr 10 2011, 04:58 AM) *
What is a Shadowrunner?


They're whores, essentially. Their primary source of income is giving back-ally handjobs to megacorporations, metaphorically speaking.

It's good money, surprisingly. More importantly, it gives them a degree of freedom that people who live within the system never experience.
CanRay
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Apr 10 2011, 08:32 PM) *
They're whores, essentially. Their primary source of income is giving back-ally handjobs to megacorporations, metaphorically speaking.

Meraphorically?

Wow, have you been lucky dealing with the Mr. Johnsons.
KarmaInferno
A Shadowrunner is a modern day Ninja.

They are criminals for hire. Most often employed when you don't want people to know it was you that set them on their task, often stealthy jobs of theft or murder.





-k
Tyro
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Apr 10 2011, 07:05 PM) *
A Shadowrunner is a modern day Ninja.

And when the shadowrunners are also ghouls, you get this ^_^
Critias
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Apr 10 2011, 08:32 PM) *
They're whores, essentially.

I've often described them as "somewhere between a prostitute and a military contractor," myself.
Tyro
QUOTE (Critias @ Apr 10 2011, 07:51 PM) *
I've often described them as "somewhere between a prostitute and a military contractor," myself.

In other words, a mercenary nyahnyah.gif
CanRay
QUOTE (Tyro @ Apr 10 2011, 09:52 PM) *
In other words, a mercenary nyahnyah.gif

Please, "Private Military Contractor".

...

Oh Ghost, I want to wash my mouth out with bleach now for that PC Garbage!
Tyro
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 10 2011, 08:09 PM) *
Please, "Private Military Contractor".

...

Oh Ghost, I want to wash my mouth out with bleach now for that PC Garbage!

Speaking as an American, Blackwater is a disgrace sarcastic.gif

And yes, I know you're an American too, CanRay. UnitedStatsian doesn't sound right, and Estadounidense makes most people scratch their heads.
Yerameyahu
It's not Blackwater, it's 'Xe', right?

Anyway, I specifically pointed out that shadowrunners are mercenaries, but not PMCs. The latter is too organized and military for the core meaning of 'shadowrunner'.
Glyph
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Apr 10 2011, 05:32 PM) *
They're whores, essentially. Their primary source of income is giving back-ally handjobs to megacorporations, metaphorically speaking.

It's good money, surprisingly. More importantly, it gives them a degree of freedom that people who live within the system never experience.

QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 10 2011, 05:39 PM) *
Meraphorically?

Wow, have you been lucky dealing with the Mr. Johnsons.

Remember, the run isn't over until the Johnson has screwed you twice. wink.gif
kzt
Nah, that has to be infrequent or runners would make a living without Johnsons. Besides you can't be betrayed if you never trusted them. devil.gif
TheOOB
A shadowrunner is a criminal mercenary "deniable asset". They will take a job with a minimum amount of information, complete it, and will sever ties to you after the job. What separates shadowrunners from other criminals and mercenaries is a) the rarely care who they work for, and often prefer not to know, b) they will accept jobs that organized groups wouldn't touch, and c)they have a (relatively) high degree of professionalism and skill.

They are special because, assuming they keep professional, corp security and law enforcement rarely chase after them after a job is completed, and even if they do the runners don't have enough information to incriminate Johnson.
Tyro
Shadowrunners are the unofficially acknowledged tools which allow the corporate court to remain in power. If shadowrunners didn't exist, tensions would mount until war was declared, and that's just bad for business. So 'runners are mostly left unmolested by the corps, so long as they keep their heads down.
Blade
It depends a lot on the GM and the tone of the game. In some games, where pays are high, Shadowrunners are professionals who chose to become Shadowrunners for the money. In others, Shadowrunners are people who have no other choice. In some games, Shadowrunners have a chance to make it big, in others they'll always be shadowrunners...
I guess the analogy with whores is a good one.
Sixgun_Sage
Playing as an undercover journalist/blogger Face in the shadows of L.A. I got a really interesting answer to this question.

"I'm a shadowrunner because I have one ideal that trumps every other. Freedom, look at the ice cold pros and the screaming maniacs, either one is here because they just couldn't make themself fit in to the normal spic n' span corporate wage slave cookie cutter life. Some of us will do anything for cred, some of us try to hold on to some other ideal, but when it gets right down to it we're the people with the skills to do a job and do it good enough the corps tolerate not having us under thumb 24-7."
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Critias @ Apr 10 2011, 10:51 PM) *
I've often described them as "somewhere between a prostitute and a military contractor," myself.


Dolemite!

http://youtu.be/IkjExJqf34o
Doc Chase
What is a Shadowrunner?

A Shadowrunner is the abyss that stares back.
A Shadowrunner watches you sleep and rifles through your belongings.
A Shadowrunner bridges the gap between the darkness and light.
A Shadowrunner is the reason the security budget was increased by 3% this quarter, to the detriment of your raise.

A Shadowrunner is that sound in the corner that makes you turn your head, the wisp of wind at the back of your neck, and the chill in your veins when the power momentarily blacks out. He's the guy that cuts your GridGuided car off in traffic. He's the guy who makes you spill your morning coffee.

He's the guy who doesn't pay his taxes.

A Shadowrunner is the reason why your insurance premiums are so high at the DocWagon. He's why your department had to lay off 20% of the workforce. She's why you can't bring your main squeeze back to your corporate apartment without three forms of ID.

A Shadowrunner is the reason why Goblinized races don't have equal treatment under the law, why that Elf from Marketing got the position you applied for, and why that Dwarf is two hours late to fix your garbage disposal.

Shadowrunners are the reason behind everything bad that happens to you. Stay in the light.

This message has been brought to you by the Corporate Council.
"Helping Metahumanity to a More Profitable Tomorrow"
CanRay
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Apr 11 2011, 11:33 AM) *
This message has been brought to you by the Corporate Council.
"Helping Metahumanity to a More Profitable Tomorrow"

*Spraypaints over it* "Three chords and the truth, or marketing money and lies. Your choice in what you believe."
Tyro
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 11 2011, 12:30 PM) *
*Spraypaints over it* "Three chords and the truth, or marketing money and lies. Your choice in what you believe."

What's the reference?
CanRay
"Three chords and the truth" apparently is what "True Country Music" is all about (My searches attribute it to Harlan Howard, but it's the Internet, who knows?). It's also been attributed to Punk music as well, as having not "Sold Out To The Man". It means your music is yours, your message is the message of the common people (Who you are part of), and against the status quo and Marketing in general.

The whole line is written by me. Doing it in spray paint just demonstrates the mentality of spreading the message by the common man ("The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls, And tenement halls").

Essentially, it means, do you listen to the nice, simple, corporate lies that are shown in the pretty font all over the place paid for with great amounts of cash? Or do you listen to the hard edge of reality spread about by hard work, effort, and cheap products?

Of course, truth is relative.
Tyro
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 11 2011, 12:41 PM) *
"Three chords and the truth" apparently is what "True Country Music" is all about (My searches attribute it to Harlan Howard, but it's the Internet, who knows?). It's also been attributed to Punk music as well, as having not "Sold Out To The Man". It means your music is yours, your message is the message of the common people (Who you are part of), and against the status quo and Marketing in general.

The whole line is written by me. Doing it in spray paint just demonstrates the mentality of spreading the message by the common man ("The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls, And tenement halls").

Essentially, it means, do you listen to the nice, simple, corporate lies that are shown in the pretty font all over the place paid for with great amounts of cash? Or do you listen to the hard edge of reality spread about by hard work, effort, and cheap products?

Of course, truth is relative.

Thanks for the clarification. I probably should have just googled it, but I'm multitasking ^_^
CanRay
QUOTE (Tyro @ Apr 11 2011, 02:43 PM) *
Thanks for the clarification. I probably should have just googled it, but I'm multitasking ^_^

I'm overtired. I get symbolic when I do that. Not necessarily a bad thing, but my mind goes in strange, twisted ways. As my Magic-8 Ball shows.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Apr 11 2011, 03:05 AM) *
A shadowrunner is a criminal mercenary "deniable asset". They will take a job with a minimum amount of information, complete it, and will sever ties to you after the job. What separates shadowrunners from other criminals and mercenaries is a) the rarely care who they work for, and often prefer not to know, b) they will accept jobs that organized groups wouldn't touch, and c)they have a (relatively) high degree of professionalism and skill.

They are special because, assuming they keep professional, corp security and law enforcement rarely chase after them after a job is completed, and even if they do the runners don't have enough information to incriminate Johnson.
QUOTE (Tyro @ Apr 11 2011, 03:09 AM) *
Shadowrunners are the unofficially acknowledged tools which allow the corporate court to remain in power. If shadowrunners didn't exist, tensions would mount until war was declared, and that's just bad for business. So 'runners are mostly left unmolested by the corps, so long as they keep their heads down.


Ninjas!



-k
Doc Chase
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 11 2011, 07:44 PM) *
I'm overtired. I get symbolic when I do that. Not necessarily a bad thing, but my mind goes in strange, twisted ways. As my Magic-8 Ball shows.


Personally I was tickled that the corporate message got graffiti'd - but whenever a group I runs wants to know what imapct their actions are making on a corporation, those are what I usually pull from corporate screamsheets.
CanRay
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Apr 11 2011, 03:53 PM) *
Personally I was tickled that the corporate message got graffiti'd - but whenever a group I runs wants to know what imapct their actions are making on a corporation, those are what I usually pull from corporate screamsheets.

One of the characters I write has investments all around in order to get the official story that they're giving Shareholders, which is even better than the scream sheets.

And he gets dividends as well.
Tyro
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 11 2011, 03:20 PM) *
One of the characters I write has investments all around in order to get the official story that they're giving Shareholders, which is even better than the scream sheets.

And he gets dividends as well.

Awesome grinbig.gif

Maybe I'll give my next character a stock portfolio at character creation.
CanRay
If the character is a SINner or Criminal SINner, then it's pretty easy to do. Just use your real SIN for real investments. No worries of losing anything if the Fake SIN gets broken.

It gets more worrisome if you're not in the system.
Tyro
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 11 2011, 04:30 PM) *
If the character is a SINner or Criminal SINner, then it's pretty easy to do. Just use your real SIN for real investments. No worries of losing anything if the Fake SIN gets broken.

It gets more worrisome if you're not in the system.

A R6 "aboveboard" SIN which is never used on assignments to launder money through and put your main lifestyle under?


[Edit:]
I play with SIN readers directly compared to SINs. If SIN rating > SIN reader's rating, you automatically pass. If SIN rating < SIN reader's rating, you automatically fail. If SIN rating = SIN reader's rating, they ask you a random security question; make a Logic * 2 test (threshold dependent on things like how often you use the SIN, the number of SINs you use on a frequent basis, etc.); the outcome of the test determines your passing or failing the security check. A R6 SIN can only be broken by very high-level readers (6 and a failed test or milspec) or GM fiat.
CanRay
QUOTE (Tyro @ Apr 11 2011, 06:31 PM) *
A R6 "aboveboard" SIN which is never used on assignments to launder money through and put your main lifestyle under?

That's as bulletproof as you get without being legit. Good luck!
TheOOB
Sometimes shadowrunners are heroes, sometimes they shoot other people in the face for money.
Tyro
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Apr 12 2011, 12:46 AM) *
Sometimes shadowrunners are heroes, sometimes they shoot other people in the face for money.

The really smart ones say "Pay me this much and I won't shoot you in the face", and thus save money on bullets nyahnyah.gif
Glyph
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Apr 12 2011, 12:46 AM) *
Sometimes shadowrunners are heroes, sometimes they shoot other people in the face for money.

And those two things will not always be incompatible.
TheOOB
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 12 2011, 04:18 AM) *
And those two things will not always be incompatible.


I thought it was a nice paraphrase from the beginning of one of the books(runners companion I believe) which did a good summary of this question.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 12 2011, 12:20 AM) *
One of the characters I write has investments all around in order to get the official story that they're giving Shareholders, which is even better than the scream sheets.

And he gets dividends as well.


It's tempting to use it as the Day Job quality - spending that kind of time on your portfolio only to go a'raiding at night.
CanRay
QUOTE (Tyro @ Apr 11 2011, 06:31 PM) *
[Edit:]
I play with SIN readers directly compared to SINs. If SIN rating > SIN reader's rating, you automatically pass. If SIN rating < SIN reader's rating, you automatically fail. If SIN rating = SIN reader's rating, they ask you a random security question; make a Logic * 2 test (threshold dependent on things like how often you use the SIN, the number of SINs you use on a frequent basis, etc.); the outcome of the test determines your passing or failing the security check. A R6 SIN can only be broken by very high-level readers (6 and a failed test or milspec) or GM fiat.
How do you deal with SINs that are being overused or start having too much of a history to be useful for a 'Runner? The longer the data trail, the easier it is for someone to track you.

(Meta)Humans are creatures of nature, only the insane are completely random, no matter training or skill. Also, you need to fill in all the bits for those SINs, not the least of which is taxes and voting. On the bright side, you can vote often for your politico of choice.

QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Apr 12 2011, 08:34 AM) *
It's tempting to use it as the Day Job quality - spending that kind of time on your portfolio only to go a'raiding at night.

Good way to run it. But that character has an addition to the Matrix, which he fights off for his 'Runs. He posts a lot on Black BBSes, writes things for people (Despite complaining about having to write. And having a really bad AuthorSoft that is very politically correct, and other issues.), and so on. So his stock ticker is always going in his eyes.

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