I know that I have asked this before, but I still can't find it since the original Dumpshock archives went down and the new one has broken links.

The ammo I am looking for is a custom creation named the Hi-Explosive Armor Piercing Depleted Uranium Core round, or HEAPDUC for short. If anyone can give me a hand, please help.

-Risingstar

What the hell is that ammo used for, killing planets?

Close enough. Though I plan on using it against Aztecnology, Lone Star, and others.

Just stick with Capsule rounds with Seven Seven or some other deadly poison and those not in a chem suit just die. Probably cheaper.

So take all the stuff you like about the ammo types you're trying to incorporate, tell the GM you want all of 'em in one round, and ask him for an availability/price.

DU is basically covered by AV rounds.
If that isn't enough for you, add +2 to their Damage Value, increase Availability by +5, double the price and make sure to bribe your DM.
Or do as every sensible person does and get a post-errata Thunderstruck.

Don't let me begin to think about what would happen if you use that kind of ordnance against cops, my sadistic GM sense is tingling already.
It's not as if a good shooter couldn't bring down every copper with weapons and ammo that don't make them call in every available SWAT team in the entire state.

SWAT? This sounds more like a military level ammo, and so would have really heavy players come onto the field.

Ah, like the old days when APDS was The Bomb! And required a 'Run into a military base to get, and you typically used up more than half of it just getting out.

Those were the good old days, weren't they, Chummer?

Yeah, wish I could have enjoyed them.

STILL haven't been able to play.

Just for the sake of argument… what? It's a uranium penetrator that *then* explodes (somehow)?

I remember the EXLAP (Explosive-Light Armour Piercing) rounds from Aliens. I described them to a friend as: "Like Ex-Lax, but with explosives."

This was back home, so the explosives joke didn't scare everyone.

Apparently. As far as I can tell, he mashed some adjectives together.
I've never heard of HEAPDUC rounds before.

But it's so catchy!

Anyway, OP, what exactly do you need? As others mentioned, ammo numbers are just +/- DV, +/- AP (assigned seemingly at random). Just look at the existing stuff, powergame it up, realize WAR! already beat you to it, add more power, and presto! Hipducks.

Why use depleted uranium when regular non-depleted uranium would also add radiation sickness to the target as well? Clearly you're not thinking this all the way through.

Use plutonium and shoot *really* big bullets. That way, it penetrates, then the impact drives the two masses of Pu together, causing a nuclear explosion! We'll call them HEAPPUUCs. Just like when designated-driving someone's friend home: 'he pukes, you die'.

Depleted Uranium isn't depleted quite enough to not prevent radiation sickness. Just make it take longer.

Do we care if the metal objects your firing at people at supersonic speeds make them sick after awhile?

Well, I heard that they make buckshot out of steel now, rather than lead...

Actually the big concern for the long term health implications for soldiers who have to handle it regularly. Plus the effects of DU on the health of a civilian population in an urban center where it is used does not make for happy reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/...-operation.html

You are asking for an ammunition that is both : Depleted Uranium Core AND High Explosive.

Basically you are asking for something that prove you have no knowledge of what you are asking for. As a GM I would be delighted to provide you with such an ammunition, just as will be every salesman in every shop you enter, "of course they come at an hefty price but I just happen to have a box left right behind the corner. Sure the box doesn't say HEAPDUC, but we both know how that kind of things work *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*. Now can I interested you in a gyrojet-multilauncher-ceramic plated gun ? It is nicely disguised as a plain paper roll but it wont trick such a connoissor "

It might be doable if you fit the explosive in the back, behind the uranimum core - if it's around it it will be stripped away as the core punches though armor - but the amount will be miserable enough to prevent any serious effect. To add insult to injury (for the firer), such a design will degrade the core's penetration (shorter core = less sectional density* = less penetration). It will also put the explosive right next to the burning powder and expanding gases, so the round will be prone to cookoffs....

All considered, that would be to ammunition what a donk is to automobile...

* sectional density : the projectile's mass divided by it's section. The higher it is, the better it punches thorugh armor (more energy delivered by surface unit of armor at the impact point)

That's because with buckshot, you pretty often eat what you shoot...

And it tends to fly everywhere, which means the collateral might sue you because you gave him/her lead poisoning in addition to a perforated behind.


On Topic:

Seriously, there probably ARE AP+EX rounds out there, right now, at least in development. But they are not DUPs, they are probably just plain old tungsten carbide heads and a delayed charge behind it. But the goal is more like a mini-grenade, which would be WAY more useful ammo: A minigrenade that penetrates barriers and then explodes in a building. There is probably a Future Weapons or similar show about them, too.

I have got to use this for the military scenario I'm running right now.

In order to merely exceed the safety values for long-term radiation exposure, one already needs to accumulate enough Uranium to make something else far more important: Uranium is a heavy metal, and as such toxic. So having DU shrapnel somewhere in the body is not healthy, but it wouldn't be better if it had been a lead round.

At least he's not looking for them in Discarding Sabot style.

I swear I remember a line like this from first or second edition but can't remember were now.

Street Samurai Catalog, page 63. Hatchetman talks about stealing two clips from the firing range at Ft. Lewis, then laments that he used them both getting out.

Where do you think I got the idea? I may not have played in those days, but I paid attention.

something along these lines is what i think he is looking for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Explosiv...cing_Ammunition

Which is an awesome round Indeed...

Explosive ex-lax, nice...

Sounds like the favorite toy of a certain gonzo journalist...

"Prolapse."

To go the other direction, here's one from my game...

Drekky Ammo

"Did you hear about the new body armor Ares is rolling out? It's designed to stop the new APDS rounds, dead!"
"Yeah, but that means that they have the next generation of AP in R&D. They'll drop it out once they've hit the sales targets for the body armor this quarter."
"And then those bullets will be all the rage."
"Ayup. And my old AP just won't cut it anymore."
"Well, at least you'll have some cheap rounds for target practice, omae..."

AP rounds always use cutting-edge technology to try and stay a step ahead of current body armor. Standard rounds used to be AP rounds, but now they tech has moved forward and they don't have quite the oomph that they used to. But what about the older stuff? Bullets made ten years ago have seen three generations of armor come and go, and they can't be asked to keep up with the game. Arms sellers, however, have boxes of the old stuff gathering dust and need to clear it out to make room for new inventory. What do you do with all this drekky ammo? Mark it down and get rid of it, that's what!

Drekky Ammo
Damage Modifier: -
Ap Modifier: +4
Armor Used: Ballistic
Availability: 2
Cost per 10: 5Y

Common as dirt, usually bought in bulk for target practiceor, in more rural communities, for hunting. Handy to keep around for plinking rats or stray dogs, and while they have terrible armor-piercing capability, they're still bullets and work just fine on an unarmored target. They're not even restricted!

You realize those are actually more expensive than standard ammo, right? Standard is 2Y per 10.

Ummmmm... 20 per 10 actually.

Derp, that's what I get for posting at work.

Heh...

I like this. I like it a lot. It's great for ghoul hunting too.

I don't know. Copper is pretty expensive now, it'd be a waste to use them on jacketing bullets, eh?

That's why it's steel jacketed rounds now.

I think Drekkies are lead slugs, no more, no less.

"WE HIT THE MOTHERLOAD!!!" "What are you talking about? This is a cache of old cased 7.62mm ammo from the US Army. The UNITED STATES Army. It's big, yeah, but the primers and powder have to have denatured by now and..." "Yeah, I know. But think: Brass and Copper." "OH!!! A bit of work, and..." "You got it, cha-ching!"

Reminds me of a Tomorrow where the main character finds the motherload:
A stop sign. So much raw metal!

In one of his "Callahan's Crosstime Saloon" stories, Spider Robinson had a time traveler that was offering miracles for pennies.

Literally every penny in the bar. Now, US pennies at the time (And today) are Bronze (They add Zinc to make them last longer at the mint), but that's still some damn fine metals for a depleted future.

Heh.

They're just low-quality bullets pushed out a few years back. Good for, say, tossing in some guns that you're selling to a force in the 'Stans.

(Seriously, have you *seen* the bullets they put in those AKs? No wonder they can't hit anything!)

Also note that while they provide +4 armor, the target has to have at least 1 point of armor for that to take effect. If they're completely unarmored, Drekky Ammo hits just like normal ammo. Once someone has something better than armored clothing, these things are about as effective as spitballs.

They wind up being oddly popular for, as noted, hunting critters, Ghouls, or plain ol' target shooting at the range.

Give 'em a spin in your game and see how your players react.

I guess I just don't see the point, unless you're playing a special extra-gritty/street-trash campaign. Otherwise, regular ammo is essentially free already.

No. I demand samples. And some good ammo for comparison.

I don't know, it's very possible for a wired up street samurai to use 40 nuyen worth of regular rounds per initiative pass, that can add up.

Though generally I'd agree, cheap ammo is something that should exist, but it's really not designed for shadow runners. I could see cheapo corp security using it to save a buck.

That'd take using 4 arms or using multiple guns for suppressive fire...

I might note that riggers can realistically use full auto fire, as well as high-velocity assault rifles or even miniguns. Miniguns use 15 rounds every initiative pass they are fired (30 for suppressive fire) and riggers can have up to 5 initiative passes in a combat turn. This adds up to 75-150 rounds a combat round, which is 150-300 for regular ammo. Drekky ammo would lower that to 38-75 .

This would work well on human targets, who tend to run the fuck away from a minigun. The dolts with an invincibility complex would still likely take damage if/when hit, since the gun is flinging out 9 DV/+3 AP shots.

Or dumped on their ass from stun.

I find the +4 armor modifier rather bausive for something that's sopposed to be only some years behind the tech curve - logically the 'crappy' ammo would still be the mainstay in many places - first of them the army's depots. Also compared to other ammo, a +4 in armor-piercing is about n par with the differecen between regula and ex-ex ammo (+2 DV -2 AV grants toughly the same effect).

A difference that big should be only for some reallt old trash, say 30 years old or the like, and intermediate grades should be available, starting with a mere +1 armor modifier up to +4, with a corresponding reduction in price.