Okay, here goes.

Attitude introduced the wearable drone class, a drone that augments the wearer's strength and otherwise seems to work like a normal drone for modding.

Now, if it was armoured up, to work like powered armour, and rigged jumped in, by someone with a maxed out commlink, would that power arour allow them to run about with 5 IP?

Nope, its unpowered and cant move on its own the suit itself actually reduces your agility when wearing it

In 4th edition does jumping in basically shut down your motor functions like it did in previous editions (as well as decking?)

Be hard to walk around when you are a limp bag of meat and bones. Or a -8 dice modifier or whatever the equivelent to a +8 TN happens to be.

I guess it's like having a stirrup interface and jumping inside your body so that you're directly controlling your own body with your brain as if it was your own body...

So it's both underpowered and gives you it's own strength in stead of your own (implying it can move on it's own, otherwise it'd be useless)? That's what's confusing me with this thing.

It is powered Suit that uses Human motive force, but it augments that force a bit. For all intents and purposes, It is a Vehicle powered by the Human body. Think the Loaders from the Movie "Aliens"...

The loader from Aleins is coordinated by the controller'S body'y movements but oterwise uses it's own propulsion. I'm quite confused as to what happens if you jump into this drone (or augment it with armour and more strength, like with drone limbs, and then jump into it).

Don't have my book handy, unfortunately, but I would say that the Drone would need a Rigger Module, and then you treat it as a normal Drone. Though its stats would likely be something to be desired, since the body now no longer is controlling the movements. At least, without my book, that is what I would say. Will have to look at it again when I get home...

I tend to think about it as an exoskeleton, though. So, Who knows...

I guess it's similar to today's SARCOS suit (and seeing how the latest books tend to just inject 2011 into 2070 with a little magic sprinkled on the top, it wouldn't be surprising): it helps the wearer in his movement but doesn't move by itself. So if you jump inside it, you won't be able to move it since it's not able to move on its own.

Shockingly, everything about this suit/vehicle (why would you jump in?)/drone (why would it need a Pilot?) is poorly-conceived, and doesn't fit any existing rules. As long as you don't go looking for abuse, it might possibly be usable in play.

Indeed... I see it as useful for Longshoremen and people who do a lot of heavy lifting. *Shrug*

I'm lacking the book so please forgive me, but it looks as though were talking about an intuitive power armour.

The suit has all the functions of a drone but can interpret the users movements and commands as though it were a piloted vehicle. Examples include assisted running, grappling, etc. all functions originate from the user and translate through the drone armour. I'd opt for AR controls over VR as the risks of personal danger increase.

Targeting and weapons systems could either be automated for defense purposes (point-defense actions) or controlled by the user by either pulling triggers, voice commands, or as easy as looking at a target to designate it for engagement during combat where the drone would control its weapon systems and open fire.

Alternatively for a DNI interface think about the Beauty and the Beast Corps. from MGS. They were rag-doll for the majority of the time in their suits going insane with all the data-feeds and murder mayhem. That is some advanced tech even for Shadowrun, although you'd expect the corps to be working on it in some black lab.

Now you could just as easily shove a dummy in the suit and jump-in like any drone and then hey you're piloting you're entourage as you breeze through the park.

for peoples reference


Iron Will: iron Will is an exoskeleton used to augment
the user’s strength for laborious tasks. it is 2.5 meters tall
and weighs 200 kg. it has no autonomy, nor was it built
for any remote piloting. When worn, treat the wearer’s
strength as 8, but reduce their agility by 1. iron Will can be
treated as a vehicle for upgrades.

IRON WILL
Handl Accel Speed Pilot Body Arm Sens Avail Cost
+0 —/— 0 0 6 4 1 14 3,500¥

Men—
and some women—then throw on overalls or a jumpsuit, with
small gears instead of buttons, some of which are augmented with
a hydraulic exoskeleton like the Iron Will. Manhattan’s unionized
dockworkers used the Iron Will hydraulic exoskeleton when they
were loading and unloading cargo in the early ‘30s and ‘40s. It’s
kind of like a manservant drone, but you wear it. As the prices
of augmentations and drones dropped, things like the Iron Will
became less popular, and now there’s maybe two hundred still
in use. Street artist Christopher Guidry, or “Gee Man,” has been
remodeling them into a more intimidating, metahuman-shaped
skeletal structure, complete with skullcap and welded ribcage. In
some versions, chemical reaction-created steam is used to operate
the actuators, mainly for the cool e ect of having steam wa ing
around you.

It cant move on its own, cant be rigged and doesnt improve anything about you apart from strength which appears to primarily be lifting strength as its effectively based off a wearable forklift.

A better question regarding it. While wearing it, do you get it's armor?

Ok, mistook it ... but given that example, something like this should be feasible:



Right?

Isn't MilSpec Armor with the strength upgrade already power armor? I think armor and vehicles should remain separate.

Don't forget that being a vehicle it makes the driver absolutely immune to damage as long as the vehicle is targeted (with the exception of FA bursts). Most likely the driver cannot be targeted without taking the target hidden modifier in the case of vehicle type Power Armor. This bonus should not be integrated into armor.

Yes, Armor and Vehicles should be kept miles apart...

Never forget that a Vehicle protects the "Driver" from Direct Combat Spells. They cannot typically be seen (Unless, of course, they are on a Motorcycle, and obviously visible).

Yes. See Military Armor with Mobility Upgrade, Hydraulic Legs and a sensor suite.

The point is, can I treat this as a drone and jump in, using my matrix initiative; and do passenger rules apply for damage. Seems like not.

I would have guessed it was the ultimate in wheelchair replacement. If there's less than 200 of these things then what are they using for wheelchairs in shadowrun?

Wheelchairs...

Because Attitude is full of shit that wasn't thought through at all?

Well, in all fairness, the Iron Will is a piece of technology that is phasing out because it is obsolescent. It was a piece of fluff, and nothing more. It should be treated that way...

It should be treated according to the existing rules, keep armour and drone separate, and be described clearly. It does neither. And it was not a piece of fluff. It has stats. That's rules. Of course, that's why you keep rules and stats separate.

Too bad we don't have a 4th Ed "Rigger's Black Book" to show us the way...

We have the vehicle section of Arsenal. We can go by that.

Yeah, it's obviously not a drone. It's not even really a vehicle (in that it doesn't move itself), except by RAW quirk. If I used it in a game, I'd treat it as a special kind of milspec armor.

By Fluff, I meant that it was an outdated piece of equipment, that was included for Fluff Reasons. Even though it does have stats, it is outdated and antiquated.

I actually like it as a medical exo-skeleton that allows people with mobility issues (parapalegic and quadrapalegics) to walk again. Probably how I would use it in game. Kind of a neat fluff piece, at least in my opinion. Probably even have it grafted on to the person (or not, still undecided). But that is just me. *shrug* A special Purpose Milspec Armor would work as well...

So is it impossible to mod it into something that moves on its own? Add propulsion and walker mode, slap on a pilot program, rigger control, etc.

The problem I see is, it won't be any different from a regular drone, it might just be cool to use one.

I would say yes, those modifications are impossible. If not by RAW, then they should be. It's not really a vehicle, and it's definitely not a drone.

From the description the thing is a powered exoskeleton that's controled by the user's motions - but it detects those motions like today's waldo units - as you begin to move, your limbs press agaisnt a contact which tells the exo to move.

Wich means the suit isn't fitted for rigger-style control. It can probably be retrofitted for it, but that would require pulling out and replacing the whole control system, and that's not cheap, especially when applied to 40 years old hardware.

Well, it can be treated as a vehicle for upgrades, and by the given stat line it has some kind of basic sensor package to it already, but I certainly wouldn't call it a drone or a vehicle. Maybe some low-grade version of milspec armor like what Yerameyahu said.

But I don't see any reason why you couldn't add a rigger module to it at all. Jumped in you'd still be limited to 1 IP for meat world activities, and at a -6 DP to boot, since the Iron Will can't do anything on its own like a real drone or vehicle can or could do.

Here comes the kicker: Outfit a classic humanoid walker drone (from "Arsenal", maybe a (modified) Manservant-3) with this exo-skeleton. What now?

Seriously, why wouldn't a competent mechanic be able to provide this suit to move on its own? As indicated, by the rules it may use vehicle modification rules, so you may go for a "special machinery" modification.
On the other hand, I always wondered how a nonmobile emotitoy (statted somewhat like the minidrone version) or a smart firing platform should be treated, as they are very similar to classic drones, yet not in the same section. This may apply to the Iron Will as well.

Doesn't the Iron Will have a Pilot of 0, though? It's not an immobile drone, but simply not a drone at all. You could put an agent in it, to watch the sensor. And you could jump in to it… and then *you'd* be the agent watching the sensor, immobile. It can't move on its own, period, which includes all rigging.

As SpellBinder says, you'd be jumped in uselessly, because the only way to move it is with your real meat body (-6 for being in VR, meat initiative).

How many vehicle mods can I throw on this thing?! I'm already imaging the armor from the Starship Troopers novel.

A few. It's Body 6. It's not a giant jump-powered nuke machine, though.

Isn't that two mods? Sorry, don't really play wrench-monkies. And I now it's not a walking killing machine, but it's cheaper than the power suit route.

With a Body of 6 it would have 6 modification slots.

HELLO NEW CHARACTER CONCEPT!

Heh. I'm not sure which vehicle mods are even applicable, let alone GM-allowable. Guns, I guess, and more sensors. Maybe some cyberarms, which can have more cash sunk into them. Nothing really worthwhile.

Currently looking at Nanomaintenance, Life Support, EM Shielding, and things like that. Power Armor, piece by piece. Must resist urge to make five that come together.

Seems fair. That'll blow all your mod slots in a hurry. EM (be aware of the major drawbacks) is 2, isolated Life Support is 3, and the nano's 1, so that's 6. :/ Glancing through the list, nothing else really jumps out as feasible and useful; did you see anything else good? Everyone's first choice is usually Rigger Cocoon, but I honestly can't see that as compatible with the exoskeleton design. Passenger Protection or Personal Armor, possibly.

Now just to get on a runner team that doesn't know the meaning of the word "Discreet". "WHY THE HELL IS A DECKER IN A SELF HEALING WAR-MONGER SUIT?!" The only time I will have a character with a stat at 1.

And the stupid question. It counts as a vehicle for mods, does it count for vehicle damage if I shoulder check a guy? MWUAHAHAHAHAHAH

If so, your suit (and you) will take damage as well. Ram Plate'll run you at least 2 mod slots, IIRC.

I really can't emphasis enough that it's a mistake to treat it as a vehicle, though. Ramming technically uses vehicle piloting skill, so I dunno what you'd even roll. You'll be going so slow that you wouldn't even hurt them (Body 6 divided by 2!, -3 penalty if you run), and then you have to make a crash test. :/

One, but it is nice to imagine a lumbering exoskeleton with a big shoulder plate for dropping into someone at full run.

I could see certain vehicle mods being allowable, like a pair of arms, a drone rack, or even a pair of mounted weapons, but there are some that would be outright ridiculous to allow (like hovercraft, limited mobility, or amenities). The not-so-common common sense would have to be used here.

And would it even be possible to run wearing an Iron Will? I know someone mentioned the Power Lifter from Aliens and I keep thinking of that (whirr-clunk... whirr-clunk) when it comes to the mobility of this exoskeleton. If ramming were allowed with this anyway (which I'd say no to), I'd say it'd either be a Pilot Anthroform or Running skill check.

Next thing you know someone'll want a RideBack (just google it if you don't know). Only reason I even thought of this was because of Christian Lafay's comment about dropping a shoulder plate (my mind, a shield) into someone at full run.

You do make a good point about the movement of the Iron Will. And I would think of using Running with the check for speed, then the ram plate to up the speed category. If not that, then I can think of a few mods that would do it. How many video games and animes have we seen where the feet hover, or pop wheels, and then a quick jet boost to ram. But that falls more into home-brew, I think

Seems like it makes the most sense for a normal STR, enhanced AGI Adept to wear this thing, since it CAN'T be rigged and senses body movements. Heck, give him a commlink with hands-free operation and some bitchin goggles, throw a drone rack and some guns on the suit, and make him a combat rigger.

Imagine a hulking chrome armor suit (pimped ride vehicle mod, of course) walking towards you, guns blazing, deploying two roto-drones with grenade launchers as his wingmen, commanding a small army of combat/patrol drones with machineguns. Screw "jumping in" to one drone and helping it do a single task really well, just command waves of drones to take on (or at least occupy) multiple enemies while you target and remove bigger threats (like trolls and mages).

Can anyone think of a way to upgrade the STR stat of the armor? I would treat it as an Vehicle Engine upgrade for Speed (since Running in metahumans is tied to STR). And an Vehicle Engine upgrade for Acceleration would take away the AGI penalty...

EDIT: Of course, I am thinking of this as something akin to Iron Man's armor or the Mjolnir Armor from the Halo series, where the suit senses and magnifies the movement of the user, and can't function independent of an operator.

EDIT EDIT: And the Adept CAN have multiple init passes in the flesh while wearing the suit.