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Jolly
Hi All,

How do you hide your characters' forbidden cyber/bioware, and what stories do your SIN data reflect for the restricted ware?

It's something we... less charismatic... individuals struggle with sometimes. Yes, I'm referring to my troll hacker. smile.gif

RFID tags being edited or disabled is a given. Bribery is usually an option (that can cause it's own problems).

Isn't it possible for the hacker to edit the live data return on a scanner result - changing it from positive to negative? (And conversely, edit a nearby scanner to return a positive result as a distraction?)


Thus far, all I've come up with is:

Muscle Augmentation/Toner - required for degenerative muscular disease, licensed for sports
Move-by-Wire - pass for skill wires


Adrenaline Pump, Tailored Pheromones, and Damage Compensators would seem to be the hardest to hide or fast-talk through.

Thanks!
Yerameyahu
Bioware is all but undetectable anyway. They'd have to have you in a hospital and do extensive tests. Technically, sniffers/pheromone scanners don't detect Tailored Pheromones; instead, they detect the presence of people by scent. They're relatively expensive anyway.

Cyberware depends heavily on the grade, but it's pretty hard to hide. If they tag you, they get basically full info: what implants, where, etc. And, a rating 6 scanner is cheap (450¥), so anywhere secure would have several. frown.gif

Hacking the scanners is reasonable, though either slow (ahead of time) or tough (on the fly); spoofing might be reasonable and effective, though crude. You would expect such devices to have Device Rating of 3 or 4 at minimum, so it's a moderate hack. It's possible they'd be isolated from the network anyway, which all but precludes any hacking/spoofing.
Elfenlied
Sometimes, Wi-Fi negating does the trick, at least against some scanners.

Failing that, plausible cover stories and the right paperwork. E.g.:
Wired Reflexes/MbW: Professional Athlete, Law Enforcement, Private Security
Muscle Replacement: Construction worker, medical condition
Eyes/Ears: medical condition
Implanted Comlink/Math SPU/Encephalon/Cerebral booster/Skillwires: IT personnel/most white collar professions
Dermal Sheathing/Plating/Bone Lacing/Damage compensators: Stuntman, Bodyguard
Tailored pheromones: corporate Exec
Adrenaline pump: tricky... medical condition (depression, bi-polarity, whacky metabolism) could do the trick

Now, justifying any kind of implanted cyberweapons is really trick. Your best bet would be to see if your GM allows something akin to the ceramic components modification available to firearms (to fool MAD), and wifi-negating paint on the limb (to fool cyberware scanners).
Fyndhal
My general fallback:
Fake License: Rating as high as possible.
HunterHerne
Wi-fi can be disabled on all cyberwear, regardless of where it is. The millimeter-wave cyberware scanners are almost impossible to fool, so you'd better have your paperwork (for restrcicted gear), or an ECM for forbidden cyber. Considering how easy it is to find Cyber-weapons (threshold of 1) you really need to have the paperwork.And if you have any forbidden cyberweapons, either don't participate, or get ready for a fight.

Another good possibility, invest in your own transportation.
Yerameyahu
Elfenlied, you can remove everything from your list there that's not even R to begin with, though. No need to justify normal things: eyes, ears, commlink, etc.
Elfenlied
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 22 2011, 09:02 PM) *
Elfenlied, you can remove everything from your list there that's not even R to begin with, though. No need to justify normal things: eyes, ears, commlink, etc.


Actually, I was just thinking about adding "Cyber Spurs: Sushi Chef", but that's probably pushing it.
Yerameyahu
Haha, worth a shot.
KCKitsune
I would say not to carry any ranged cyber weapons. They're bulky, limited on ammo, and, as you said, hard to conceal. Cyber spurs & hand razors should be easy to conceal.
Halflife
Everything can be justified with the right medical condition nyahnyah.gif
Yerameyahu
Yes, there's basically no reason to get cyberguns in the first place (although, as R-class items, you can get licenses just like normal guns).

Wires is the main thing people would try to conceal, I guess. It's only R, so you can simply get a license. Ditto for a Smartlink, Muscle Replacement, and other normal things.

Bone Lacing is basically un-concealable as well as Forbidden, unless the GM house-rules that the scanner can't see it. Voice Mask, Retinal Dupe, etc. are F, and technically have no immunity from the scanner; tough sell.

Honestly, I can't think of anything else you'd have to justify; everything else is either unrestricted, or unneeded. smile.gif
Elfenlied
If all else fails, have your mage mindrape the personnel operating the scanner. If there's no personnel, then use physical illusions to get past them.
Yerameyahu
Good point: hacking is a possibility, but magic is always there. If they have magical defenses, then that's a whole nother issue. smile.gif
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 22 2011, 04:33 PM) *
Ditto for a Smartlink

If you have it as part of your cybereyes, then how will the security goon even know you've got it?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Delta Grade for a High Threshold... smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 22 2011, 01:51 PM) *
If you have it as part of your cybereyes, then how will the security goon even know you've got it?


It is likely that they will not know... beauty of a cybereye system package. smile.gif
Yerameyahu
For 'real users', they can probably ask the cybereyes. For runners, obviously not an issue. Like I said, anything that's not F isn't really an issue (if you're not trying to hide the existence). The same goes for retinal duplication, I assume, and so on.

That's why the issue of *explaining* 'ware isn't half as important as *hiding* it.
Eimi
There is some painful humor inherent in Spy Games giving us new (f) cyberware that allows for changing your face and fingerprints...which totally falls flat thanks to the "cyberware scanners anywhere secure" part of the setting. I mean, yeah, you can do things to try and get around the ultra-cheap ubiquitous scanners, but by taking the ware, you're making your life as an infiltrator HARDER than it would've been without any augmentation.
Modular Man
You could ask your GM for permission to mask it as something harmless, using the given rules from "Arsenal" (are there any new ones in "Spy Games"?). That fingerprint-changing nano-cyberware? No, no, those wires are in there to keep my bones stabilized, I broke my hand a few weeks back.
Well, that will get pricey pretty soon...
You can interpret the thing about "getting general information" (scanner achieved treshold, but got no net hits) a little, too. Maybe the scanner doesn't list every function of the 'ware instantly... otherwise it's damn hard to hide those.
I still don't get why cyberware scanners get bonus dice for more cyberware to find...
Socinus
I created a custom item that helps.

Hider Nanites are nanites that can imitate or hide (Enough to fool some sensors) internal cyberware, adding their rating to any opposed test for the scanner to see the cyberware. They cant help with something like a full cyberarm, but for basic stuff they can help.

I can post the full write-up for it if you want
CanRay
Smuggle the Street Samurai through airport security one piece at a time?
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 23 2011, 03:23 AM) *
Smuggle the Street Samurai through airport security one piece at a time?

Long story short, that is what full cyber body is for. And he didn't like it.
Teulisch
the modular street sam, now availible as a c3p0 backpack for the troll mage!
CanRay
QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Jun 22 2011, 09:37 PM) *
Long story short, that is what full cyber body is for. And he didn't like it.
QUOTE (Teulisch @ Jun 22 2011, 09:45 PM) *
the modular street sam, now availible as a c3p0 backpack for the troll mage!
"This isn't my arm."

"Um, yeah, you see, we kinda had to do... Um, yeah..."

"Where is my arm. You know, with all the cybernetic systems that I paid meganuyen for?"

"Hawai'i."

"WHAT? We're in TORONTO!"

"Yeah. The arm kind of got put on the wrong plane. We also didn't get all the parts for the cybertorso, which is in, um, where again?"

"Tracking it in London."

"ENGLAND?"

"No, here in Ontario. It got transferred onto a prop plane for some reason that I can't figure out. Honestly, they must hire drunk Trolls to do the loading and unloading!"

"HEY!"

"Sorry Tyke. No offense, but we all know Trolls do most of the aircraft loading."

"Yeah, I guess..."

"So, fine, anything else?"

"Your feet."

"If I had my right right arm right now, I'd skewer you."
Christian Lafay
And a new way to score some newones, reroute parts of competing teams for resale.
TheLaughingBandit
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 22 2011, 07:02 PM) *
"This isn't my arm."

"Um, yeah, you see, we kinda had to do... Um, yeah..."

"Where is my arm. You know, with all the cybernetic systems that I paid meganuyen for?"

"Hawai'i."

"WHAT? We're in TORONTO!"

"Yeah. The arm kind of got put on the wrong plane. We also didn't get all the parts for the cybertorso, which is in, um, where again?"

"Tracking it in London."

"ENGLAND?"

"No, here in Ontario. It got transferred onto a prop plane for some reason that I can't figure out. Honestly, they must hire drunk Trolls to do the loading and unloading!"

"HEY!"

"Sorry Tyke. No offense, but we all know Trolls do most of the aircraft loading."

"Yeah, I guess..."

"So, fine, anything else?"

"Your feet."

"If I had my right right arm right now, I'd skewer you."


LOL
suoq
One thing that helps with building a fake ID is building a character history. For example, on my current Mission character, all of his ware is explainable with his past. Such a past is reused for building a fake ID because, quite frankly, I don't want someone asking me what color the boathouse is at Hereford. It doesn't have to be the same job, same location, but it should be places he knows and things related to what he's done.

Much of a shadowrunner's 'ware is common ware for certain jobs. Skillwires are used anywhere. Wired Reflexes and MBW are perfect for Docwagon, Lonestar, and other security/rescue outfits. Such jobs can also explain things like Dermal Plating and Internal Air Tanks.

Seriously bad ass cybernetics can always fall under the catch all of fake Id's, the bounty hunter, especially if you have the intimation skill to back it up.

You don't always have to be a bad ass though. If you want to build a cybered face who can take care of his own, give him the fame option and make him an ex-conflict reporter. You can give him a SIN and records on file and "he's just a guy trying to get his 15 minutes of fame back by chasing runners".

Pretend to be who you once were, only with the numbers changed, and the fake ID is a lot more realistic.




Stingray
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 23 2011, 04:51 PM) *
One thing that helps with building a fake ID is building a character history. For example, on my current Mission character, all of his ware is explainable with his past. Such a past is reused for building a fake ID because, quite frankly, I don't want someone asking me what color the boathouse is at Hereford. It doesn't have to be the same job, same location, but it should be places he knows and things related to what he's done.

Much of a shadowrunner's 'ware is common ware for certain jobs. Skillwires are used anywhere. Wired Reflexes and MBW are perfect for Docwagon, Lonestar, and other security/rescue outfits. Such jobs can also explain things like Dermal Plating and Internal Air Tanks.

Seriously bad ass cybernetics can always fall under the catch all of fake Id's, the bounty hunter, especially if you have the intimation skill to back it up.

You don't always have to be a bad ass though. If you want to build a cybered face who can take care of his own, give him the fame option and make him an ex-conflict reporter. You can give him a SIN and records on file and "he's just a guy trying to get his 15 minutes of fame back by chasing runners".

Pretend to be who you once were, only with the numbers changed, and the fake ID is a lot more realistic.

Records on file (Hard-Corps/Met2k/10,000 daggers) (all of them are "legal" security providers), no need to hide your ware, ware's came with a job.. wink.gif
CanRay
For some serious consideration, my heavily cybered up character from my stories was the victim of a terrorist attack and had a building fall on top of him (After splinters of his wife's skull ruined his face.).

He's a legal SINner, and does get "Randomly Chosen For Extensive Screening" every time he flies in an airport, but the security in question are very polite as they really don't want to have to deal with the PR Backlash of causing further suffering to a victim. Except for that one trip to Quebec when he had to politely explain how things were, slowly and with great care, after breaking an arm.

The rest of my characters are pretty Cybernetic Light, with Nas' obvious cybernetics (Muscle Replacement) being fairly common amongst the work force for quite some time despite it's availability.
Yerameyahu
Still, cyberlimbs are not even R. They're fully legal and normal (even if 4 of them maybe isn't).
CanRay
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 23 2011, 12:51 PM) *
Still, cyberlimbs are not even R. They're fully legal and normal (even if 4 of them maybe isn't).
Considering how safety regulations have gone the way of the Dodo, it's hardly surprising the number of workers missing limbs and having replacements.

Or, you know, bank robbers showing how "Hard Core" they are by tossing out the arm of one of the customers. (See if anyone gets that reference.).
suoq
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 23 2011, 12:54 PM) *
Or, you know, bank robbers showing how "Hard Core" they are by tossing out the arm of one of the customers. (See if anyone gets that reference.).
Closest I can think of is Domino, where the bounty hunters take off Locus Fender's arm.

X-Kalibur
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 22 2011, 12:33 PM) *
Yes, there's basically no reason to get cyberguns in the first place (although, as R-class items, you can get licenses just like normal guns).


Well, while I do generally agree with this, I will note one point of contention... the cyber shotgun. For extra creepy fashion - built into a flesh arm. Sure, the essence hit is huge, but follow me here. Outside of scanners you have an undetectable longarm (heh). I could see that being particularly popular amongst bodyguards and some enforcers and security personnel.
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jun 23 2011, 11:19 PM) *
Well, while I do generally agree with this, I will note one point of contention... the cyber shotgun. For extra creepy fashion - built into a flesh arm. Sure, the essence hit is huge, but follow me here. Outside of scanners you have an undetectable longarm (heh). I could see that being particularly popular amongst bodyguards and some enforcers and security personnel.

Perhaps it is my love of Trigun showing through but I have to agree with the concept, if not the essence cost.
CanRay
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 23 2011, 03:39 PM) *
Closest I can think of is Domino, where the bounty hunters take off Locus Fender's arm.
*Sighs* No one reads any of my work.
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jun 23 2011, 05:19 PM) *
Well, while I do generally agree with this, I will note one point of contention... the cyber shotgun. For extra creepy fashion - built into a flesh arm. Sure, the essence hit is huge, but follow me here. Outside of scanners you have an undetectable longarm (heh). I could see that being particularly popular amongst bodyguards and some enforcers and security personnel.
Yeah, but it makes for an interesting tale at the ER.

"I was just cleaning my gun and it went off." "Why did it blow off your..." "Um, not THAT gun." "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."

...

I'm going to the Special Hell, I know.
X-Kalibur
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 23 2011, 02:46 PM) *
*Sighs* No one reads any of my work.
Yeah, but it makes for an interesting tale at the ER.

"I was just cleaning my gun and it went off." "Why did it blow off your..." "Um, not THAT gun." "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."

...

I'm going to the Special Hell, I know.


Reserved for child molesters and people who talk during movies.
Modular Man
And this is why you should do anything possible to keep enemy hackers out of your combat cyberware, especially your cyberweapons eek.gif
Maybe a license idea for the face-'ware (That nano fingerprint thing, for example): Corporate-sponsored undercover agent. If complete with a fake police badge, it might be even useful at other times. What do you think?
CanRay
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jun 23 2011, 06:02 PM) *
Reserved for child molesters and people who talk during movies.

After "cleaning his gun", he ain't molestin' anyone ever again! nyahnyah.gif
HunterHerne
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 23 2011, 07:36 PM) *
After "cleaning his gun", he ain't molestin' anyone ever again! nyahnyah.gif


Too be fair, he only needs a hand to molest. Not doing much more then the basics, though.
CanRay
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Jun 23 2011, 07:33 PM) *
Too be fair, he only needs a hand to molest. Not doing much more then the basics, though.
OK, even worse ideas are going through my head now that the cybergun is in place...
HunterHerne
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 23 2011, 08:36 PM) *
OK, even worse ideas are going through my head now that the cybergun is in place...


No comment....
Eimi
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 23 2011, 05:36 PM) *
After "cleaning his gun", he ain't molestin' anyone ever again! nyahnyah.gif


...there's cyber for that. You don't even need to hide it from any scanners.
Smokeskin
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 23 2011, 04:51 PM) *
One thing that helps with building a fake ID is building a character history. For example, on my current Mission character, all of his ware is explainable with his past. Such a past is reused for building a fake ID because, quite frankly, I don't want someone asking me what color the boathouse is at Hereford. It doesn't have to be the same job, same location, but it should be places he knows and things related to what he's done.

Much of a shadowrunner's 'ware is common ware for certain jobs. Skillwires are used anywhere. Wired Reflexes and MBW are perfect for Docwagon, Lonestar, and other security/rescue outfits. Such jobs can also explain things like Dermal Plating and Internal Air Tanks.

Seriously bad ass cybernetics can always fall under the catch all of fake Id's, the bounty hunter, especially if you have the intimation skill to back it up.

You don't always have to be a bad ass though. If you want to build a cybered face who can take care of his own, give him the fame option and make him an ex-conflict reporter. You can give him a SIN and records on file and "he's just a guy trying to get his 15 minutes of fame back by chasing runners".

Pretend to be who you once were, only with the numbers changed, and the fake ID is a lot more realistic.


Still doesn't work. A random police control it might work for sure, but you can't just walk into somewhere secure full of military ware and say "hey, I have a license for it, its cool".
suoq
QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Jun 25 2011, 02:49 PM) *
Still doesn't work. A random police control it might work for sure, but you can't just walk into somewhere secure full of military ware and say "hey, I have a license for it, its cool".

Fixed.

If you're trying to walk into somewhere secure (and I mean actually secure, as opposed to, for example, airport security*) then you are either going to need to bypass the scanners or have a way to be minimally detained. An understanding of policies, procedures, methodology, layout, social engineering, physical engineering, etc. seems like a good idea here.

Note that if the place is secure then your awakened are going to have similar issues, possibly much worse issues. Chances are they (and the foci they're carrying) glow like Christmas trees to any who can see.

I'm not sure, off the top of my head, what ware is restricted to "military" and what the military does to people leaving the military. Do they remove the ware when you go?

------
* My son has forgotten to unpack his boy scout supplies, such as a knife and firestarter, before flying and has them in carry on repeatedly. I, on the other hand, get wanded down due to body piercings and long hair.
Daishi
On the higher end, if you jam a street sam full of enough cyberware, you can always try to convince people that their scanners are defective.

"How many augmentations did you say I have? That's ridiculous! Are you sure it's not a database dump of some kind?"
nezumi
Wear a tinfoil hat to confound detectors.
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 25 2011, 06:23 PM) *
I'm not sure, off the top of my head, what ware is restricted to "military" and what the military does to people leaving the military. Do they remove the ware when you go?


That was one of the many questions I was hoping 'War!' would answer...
LurkerOutThere
Cyberware scanners at the door to every building just don't make a lot of sense in the context of the rest of the setting and merely encourages people to play more mages. By now cyberware has been out a long long time and has dramatic benefits over the baseline human form. Froma profit driven standpoint heavily restricting it gets in the way of the corporate business model.

To assume that every mall has a rating six cyberware scanner that they also actually care about the readings of when presumably most of the Joe Sinner population has some variety of ware just seems silly. In a world where open and concealed carry is not only legal but pretty much a survival necessity in many areas there is very little rational for public and semi public spaces to do more then a cursory check of ware. Plus remember that most jurisdictions don't share information very well and it behooves the corps to let customers in the door. High grade ware might make the guards keep an extra eye on you but it might also say you are a person of importance and means.

Here's how i see it potentially going at most Single A's:

Rentacop: "I uh, can't help but notice you've got some heavy ware there sir can I ask where you came by it."

Faceysam: "Seeing how most of it was acquired to help in leading men in battle before you were born in conflicts not yet declasified you may ask but I'm not about to tell you. Plus I have a meeting in ten minuetes with your VP of Marketing Mr. Kensley. Shall I ring him up and have come down here and escort me up to his office."

Rentacop:Gulp!

Christian Lafay
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 27 2011, 09:57 PM) *
Cyberware scanners at the door to every building just don't make a lot of sense in the context of the rest of the setting and merely encourages people to play more mages. By now cyberware has been out a long long time and has dramatic benefits over the baseline human form. Froma profit driven standpoint heavily restricting it gets in the way of the corporate business model.

To assume that every mall has a rating six cyberware scanner that they also actually care about the readings of when presumably most of the Joe Sinner population has some variety of ware just seems silly. In a world where open and concealed carry is not only legal but pretty much a survival necessity in many areas there is very little rational for public and semi public spaces to do more then a cursory check of ware. Plus remember that most jurisdictions don't share information very well and it behooves the corps to let customers in the door. High grade ware might make the guards keep an extra eye on you but it might also say you are a person of importance and means.

Here's how i see it potentially going at most Single A's:

Rentacop: "I uh, can't help but notice you've got some heavy ware there sir can I ask where you came by it."

Faceysam: "Seeing how most of it was acquired to help in leading men in battle before you were born in conflicts not yet declasified you may ask but I'm not about to tell you. Plus I have a meeting in ten minuetes with your VP of Marketing Mr. Kensley. Shall I ring him up and have come down here and escort me up to his office."

Rentacop:Gulp!

Reminds me of something in the SR Quotefile...
Interviewer: So, you seem to have a lot of combat cyberware.... May I ask why?
Runner interviewing for security cover job: Used to be a bounty hunter up north. You ever hunt a Snow-Moose? You need all the help you can get.
HunterHerne
That is true, and I wouldn't *heavily* restrict most cyberware. I'd have a cyber scanner at maybe rating 2 or 3 at the local mall, with a function to warn about certain things, like cyber weapons.

For a run against a corp, it would depend on the corp, and how deep they go. If they are breaking inot a Horizon subsidiary focused on small-scale marketing, the matrix ratings might be a little higher then the physical security. And cyber scanners would probably be rating 2, since they wouldn't expect much in the way of armed and combative intrusion.
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