Fair enough. There's a couple of Barbarians and Fighters who'd match the "Herculean" definition of mortal. Outside of the magic users it's "usually" within the bounds of "mortal"-ish, "mortal demigod", mortal with the mythic quotation marks.

And it's not like the SR boys are slouches themselves. Transplant them into another setting (wow, we're going down a dangerous road) and you're average Sam is gonna seem pretty darn superpowered. The only reason they don't seem crazy is because everyone is like that in SR.



Huh, I don't recall much strategy being used, more like "RARR! I am Ghostwalkerzilla. Me and my spirits stomp Denver." What clever strategy did you see Ghostwalker using?

Feuerschwinge's body was never recovered, never even stated to be dead by anyone in the area, except to say "She must be dead. There is no sign of her anywhere". Given she was in the SOX and napalm bombed, it is entirely possible she has become something new, a radiation fueled great dragon, or worse.

Look up the Xorvintaal template. MM4? It takes away their shitty spellcasting and gives them better powers. Things like "if I get reduced to negative hitpoints, instead of dying, I appear dead* and regenerate to full."

*As in, the corpse is still a corpse, for all intents and purposes, unless it's beheaded. Then it's just a corpse.



Also keep in mind that Denver only had token military forces. You know, two tanks and a squad of soliders manning the walls. It was a cold war.

I am aware of the "Dragons of the Great Game". In my group I was the only DM that would use any monsters outside of the MM1, and I had all of those books (Including Fiend Folio)

She was NOT dead after the Missles shot her down into the Sox.
She reappeared in a novel and allready was a toxic mutated great western dragon.
She THEN was Napalm-Bombed. And still, no bones to be found . .

Ever used the zern? (MM5)
I had a GM that used them for a campaign and we didn't believe that he hadn't made them up himself (because no one reads MM5).

Wasn't there a feathered serpent that was sacrificed by Aztlan on the trid?

Sacrificed?
One of their GODS?
No, i think the closest they got to that was making one go to trial for crimes against humanity or something . .
By the way, what happened then/there?

I was pretty sure it was a western dragon they upped and offed on their altar.
But I don't know for sure.



You're not really up on Mayincatec culture are you? They regularly sacrificed their gods in order to "free them of their moral body so that they may return to heaven."

Wasn't it the Feathered Serpent leading the rebels in Yucatán Peninsula? I can't recall but I think the Aztlaner president or supreme judge was assassinated during/after/before the trial.

Now look what you've done...

And?

I've built up an immunity, you should too.

I am assuming that is sarcasm. My denver boxed set is packed up right now, but Ghostwaler was described as using lots of spirits, high power magic, and hit and run tactics. Meanwhile he recruited a spokes person and he got 6 of the 7 signatories to agree to his demands and booted the Azzies out.

No! NOOOO! I had work to do! My children will go hungry because of you! You monster!

Yip



A little bit. Point was, it doesn't take that much (on Ghostwalker's part) to be a royal pain in the ass because the forces he was attacking weren't very well prepared or very large.

HAd plans to. Never got the chance. The group moved into 4th edition and refused to budge from there.

Per Street Legends, Lofwyr has a Magic of 27. There are no spells specifically listed as anchored or quickened, but he has the metamagics for them.

GMs--With Hardened Armor 20, and Mystic Armor 20, how many of you are stating that his mystic armor also counts as hardened? In the power description for Mystic Armor, it states that it can be hardened if the critter has Hardened Armor, but not that it is? I'd tend to say yes, just because it makes life easier for bookkeeping.

Only 27? Wow. I remember reading somewhere that the IE's like Harlequin where in the 'high double digits' and would expect the biggest baddest of the Greats to be similar.

Also, since he's been around since at least the 4th Age, he'd have access to absurd metamagical techniques, from Draconic to Theran and worse. Maybe go back to Earthdawn, pull out spell matricies, and start tossing around force 30 spells with zero drain? In Big D's will, they mention an assassin killing one of his translators, and was then "reduced to his flaming component atoms with a glance." Lofwyr would do similar.

Maybe just create a special Lofwyr die pool; kills (hits) PCs per IP. And you know he's got anchored Improve Reflexes.

The exact quote (SR4, not SR4A, which might be slightly different) reads: "Some critter may also have hardened Mystic Armor (if they also have the Hardened Armor power)." I have always read that as saying that if you have both powers, the hardening counts for the mystic armor, too. Note that the critter power is NOT the same as the adept power of the same name! It is astral armor. So basically, the dragon has 20 hardened armor on both the physical and the astral planes.

Glyph--Yeah, the "may also have" is the part that I was referring to. Really, it's just me beating myself up for not having caught it when I did all the critter powers for Running Wild. I would have changed the last line to read "Treat the critter's Mystic Armor as hardened, if the creature also has the Hardened Armor critter power." Mea culpa for not fixing it when it was on my assignment.

Back to the OP--I'd go with a Dwarf Mage, specializing in Counterspelling (Detection), an Ork Hacker with group contact GOD at Loyalty 6, a Human Longarms specialist, and an Elf Face specializing in corporate politics. All of whom have Lucky and max Edge. Basically maneuver and use the 6th World against Lofwyr avoiding direct confrontation until Lofwyr decides he wants to kill the team personally. Burn as much Edge as needed to take down Lofwyr--29 Edge vs 6, even with Twist Fate the odds are against him.

Finally, bribe the GM heavily. When asking the GM to use the power of plot to determine which side is going to win, remind him/her of the bribe and promise to match it the following week if things go well.

I guess the basic problem is that in the end humans are supposed to write about super-human beings. That can derail pretty quickly (just observe the impossibility there is in trying to stat superman). At best your looking at some kind of "i have a contingency for that" GM statement made up on the spot to get the big bad out of the problem in some near-loony tunes way if one ever try to really play out the cunning and long term view of such beings.

And the only dragon known to have leveled a city on his own was Aden. And that was done when dragons, and magic in general, was something very new. And we do not know if he did it on his own or had spirits to aid him like Ghostwalker. And the event in question was back story even in SR1, and a lot of the early SR stuff was written using the rule of cool (just consider the various issues related to the NAN being formed).

An ancient, ancient war, this. Harley was mentioned as "A high-level adept, with a double-digit initiation", not "high double-digits". This means he could be anywhere from a 10th, to a 99th, rank initiate. Some prefer him in the 80's, others in the low teens. I, personally, put him at a 12, making him equal to the 'default' Great Dragon's Magic of 12, as befits the single greatest metahuman magician in the world. (For the record, Oscurro/Darke, the head Blood Magic guy for Aztlan, was a rank 6.)

@PoliteMan

Not really.
You just need to take a look at D&D. "Oh, my blood is on fire, thats 10 Points of damage. So I only got 90 hitpoints left..."
"Oh look a metior just hit me"
(Not to mention, that D&D rogues could evade a thor shot...
@Wakshaani

I really wished they would have taken a moment and thought about which way they wanted to go.
(I mean thats just bad. In the core book you have great dragons with 12 and in Street magic you got regular humans with those values...)

The best thing a GM did that I knew was to tell the lvl 30 paladin the following:

GM: Ok, so you want to kill the great dragon. Why?
Paladin: I'm lvl 30 paladin, I can beat it.
GM: Ok, the dragon goes first. It lifts from the ground and flies up to 300 feet. Then it starts to shoot fireballs on you.
Paladin: ...Thats not fair...

Reminds me when I used a 1st level Ninja to Kill Lolth in 1st edition AD&D. It is not the fact that the being cannot be killed, but rather getting to the point where they can be killed. Reminds me of the last Denver run in missions where ghostwalker came for the players. It was silly and stupid. It did not help that I had a location underground that removed 99% of his advantages and the fact my plan was to bury him with explosives.

The reality is players should almost never be able to get to the point of meeting the dragon. They are shadowy background figures who work through proxies. They didn't live that long based upon showing themselves to be slaughtered.

It is like attacking the US president. You might know where he is located, but actually getting to him, let alone making it out alive is a whole other issue. Now combine this with a being who is like a blue whale in size and toughness. As a GM I don't feel like saying to my players congratulations you killed ghostwalker, but died by his bodyguards and forces. Make new characters.

It is for the dragon.

What kind of lame-ass paladin doesn't have a holy sword (with its magic-dispelling field) by 30th level? And it's kind of dumb for any character, of any level, to challenge a flying creature in open terraign, when you (apparently) don't have any ranged attacks.

What D&D character can't fly permanently by level 15, not to mention 30... That paladin got what was coming to him.

Hey, Paladin! What was his mount? Fluttershy?

*cocks shotgun*
THE
PALADIN
DIES!

Psh. Fluttershy can solo dragons. She doesn't need no stinking paladin.

Actually, she'd probably ask for an autograph.