Ok.


800 bp team of six runners vs Old Gold Snout.

What kindo build would you go with?

Would they stand a chance under a fair GM?

I'd go with the largest Body Troll you could possibly muster. Even if he doesn't choke on him, the high fat content will do a number on the Great Dragon's arteries.

To prepare for combat, I'd have him smothered in Real Cheese and Boiling Hot Brown Gravy.

A dragon (especially a great dragon ... or the GREATEST dragon *g*) isn't just a reaction value, damage value, and body dice.

Say Lofwyr isn't that prepared to kick ass (Wait, what?), he would still be a over 10.000 year old (active) magician. Massive anchored spells are likely: Armor spells, Detect life, Detect Enemy, Combat sense. He has likely ten or more bound spirits, at least at "terribad" ratings. He has spirit pacts, closed deals with unearthly powers protecting, healing him and helping with drain.
He has got his own fatechanging powers.

I would say: Without any kind of insane weaponry (orbital crap and naval lasers), you can do it in two ways: A prepared bomb, but you need to know where he will be, or get him there somehow, OR massive first strike attack with heavy weapons on drones or something. Too bad that both of these will be detected when he divines the future in the morning (or gets warned by the spirit-world).

Ah, maybe a dragon-killing engineered disease?

You need two characters:
opne hacker that can successfully without detection find out where the dragon will be at what time.
and another highly connected character that can get a thor-shot at that point at that time. dragon paste.

"Yo, Lofwyr."
"Yeah, spirit of tomorrow?"
"I forsee GRAVE danger when you will leave to inspect the sorrow-factory. Something with metal from the sky and destruction of all life around you"
"Ah, let my mighty brain (and spec-ops, and spies) do its work: WAIT, someone wants to shoot me... with a Thor shot? Time to proactively ruin some lives, i guess"

How's about the good old Technomancer/Face, to shake the wyrm's hand in a corporate meeting, pull him into VR and Psychotropic, Cascading Black Hammer him?

For a truly dragonkill almost as cheesy as CanRay's troll.

Stahl: that leaves him plenty Edge to say "die? Me? Naw."

I predict this will dissolve very quickly into a "Schrodinger Divination" GD debate.

At 800 BP, hackers and Technomancers will be able to gather all the info you want and have the best chance of hacking orbital/nuclear weapons. If you want to actually shoot a GD to death, you have to use some obscene weapons like MERSI grenades (AFB, but from WAR!)

Edit: Or, if you give them some Karma, high level AIs are basically invincible. They can do it and there's not much even Lofwyr can do to stop them.

I thought you focused on the other type of Troll Lust, CanRay.

Gravy doubles up as lube without a hitch.
For those who like to dip, before they nip.

EVERY Thor shot and EVERY orbital laser and EVERY thaumaturgid nuke you can throw at him. Then you start with the viral stuff. Weaponised HMHVV, MADS, FAB III, while Ares uses their captured insect spirits to try and possess him. That's just off the top of my head.

I'm Canadian...

Look up this thing called "Poutine" and you'll get the joke.

So Lofwyr's made of potato?

I got the joke, and it made me hungry. "Hunger" is similar to "Lust." Thus, MY joke.

No, the ball of fat Troll is a potato to a Dragon.

...

Maybe find an Irish Troll, just to make sure. Or one from PEI or Idaho.

It seems that this last decade, poutine has been to me what playing an actual game of Shadowrun had been to you.

French Fries (Home style, not the mass produced crap), Cheese Curd (Fresh is best, but frozen does in a pinch), and Brown Gravy (With bits of beef still in it, to give some extra texture and taste.). It's a lot easier to get than RPGers interested in Shadowrun.

One comedian's theory behind Quebec being so problematic is that, due to this dish, they haven't had a bowel movement since Confederation/Confédération.

That would explain why they're so full of shit.

And he has reason to do this why?

I thought Edge only when you are not surprised?
Also, by that reasoning, give me a human with 8 edge and a Gauss-Rifle.
Burn Edge for critical success.
Bam, dead dragon because of AP/2 -5 and then 4 net hits meaning whatever he has to not take damage, i have 4 more . .

At which the dragon does the same on his soak roll.

When an unstoppable force meets an immovable object...

Also: exactly. Why would old Goldy bother with spirits to tell him the future, when he's had ample time to pick up the Divining metamagic and use it at every occasion?
Then, having a great form Guidance spirit ally always comes in handy. Plus dragons need their lackeys.

+1 Rep

+1 Rep



Burn edge: oops, I'm not dead.

Set off a Ragnarok-style world event, get things stirred up like hell to confuse divination as much as possible. When you get the chance, generate a mana void in Lofwyr's location and hit the local area with 20 THOR shots. Should do the trick.

First, wait until Lofwyr has published stats. Then just kill him in some boringly mundane way, because dragons are statted out as just a slightly above-average jet fighter and a pretty good mage, despite all the fluff about them being able to destroy cities and all that jazz. Until then, Schroedinger's Dragon could theoretically have any defense against any strategy.

I've seen Lofwyr's stats. Have fun with that....

Really? Are we discussing killing named NPC's in the SR world? I'm half expecting dark-skinned elf with twin swords to show up now...

Or someone could just bring in the "Those who will not be named" from Earthdawn.

You called?

On the one hand, this give more fuel to the "If you give it stats, the players will kill it, just for the Lulz" crowd.

But on the other hand, I always thought immortal elves and great dragons were too damn overpowered for the Shadowrun setting. Shadowrun should NOT HAVE "named NPCs" in the sense of ludicrously powerful no-selling godlike beings. Beings like Lofwyr and Ehran the scribe should survive by their cunning, their planning, their connections, and their multiple levels of security. Meeting a spec ops team or a group of prime runners should be something they want to avoid - not something they can laugh off with contrived super-powers and inflated dice pools.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be tough - a normal dragon should be able to go toe to toe with a prime runner and win most of the time. A great dragon should be able to take on a whole team. But they should still be sweating a bit. And I think there has been too much wanking going on in the fluff, with great dragons surviving thor shots, invading modern cities, and crap like that. Hopefully the published stats will be more reasonable. I would rather have a munchkin bragging "I killed Lofwyr!", than have a set of great dragon stats that don't fit the scale of the overall game world.

I concur. And a being with 13 CHA, INT and LOG that has survived for thousands of years will have planned, connected and secured so many ways that one team of 800 BP characters should have no chance at all to penetrate to their target.

But the problem with planning, connecting and securing so many ways is that in doing so also could make just as many other ways that one team of high BP characters have a good chance to penetrate and eliminate their target.

There is one major rule that happens against the "If it's stated, we can kill it" rule when it comes to the major leagues:

"If you killed him, it wasn't really him."

It wasn't really him, unless it really was him.

In which case, you only thought you killed him, and just pissed him off.

A lot.

And every Mr. Johnson you seem to meet keeps sending you to Ketchup factories for weird reasons... And you can get no other jobs. At all.

Oh no, you did not only think you killed him. You really did kill him. Permanently and absolutely. No buts, no howevers, no way outs. He is dead.

Only way he isn't is he came back from being dead. Maybe not even then.

If nothing else, a really serious attempt to kill him will get him to display the Dragon Power Armor he'd been developing.




-k

Haven't there enough Doombots already?

As Shadowrun lacks Squirrel Girl... No.

One dryad with Glamour should do it. Why attack Lofwyr when he'll give you everything you want out of "awe, deference, and kindness"?

True. Everything can be achieved because Friendship is Magic.

....oO(if it's got Stats it can be killed)
You just create that Dryad Pornomancer with 40 Dice in Con/Leadership and convince all Presidents of important Naitions (Cas,UCAS,NAN,Japan,etc) that Lofwyr is a Danger to Humanity than watch their Armies fight Saeder Krupp
well ,but then its in the Hands of the Gamemaster and not a Matter of....(Do You say "Prick comparision" in America ?) the competition between PC and NPC

with a thoughtfull Dance
Medicineman

The thing is that you can't correctly play a character with more than 6 in LOG and INT.

But since nobody else can either Nobody'll know for sure if its played correctly

with a correct Dance
Medicineman

Get someone with "Astral Hazing" within (Essence) range. Now the following happens:

1: His magic rating drops by 4
2: All magic actions are at a -4D6 (including counterspelling)
3: All drain is at a +4 = (F/2)+X +4
Etc...

Hit the dragon with mix of Eykyelbene (sp?) poison and DMSO from Arsenal. Each dose will have a chance to cause PERMANENT blindness.

At the same time you hit him with a F12 orgasm to incapacitate him.

Another possibility is to use a watercannon with a mix of DMSO and FAB3 bacterial solution.

Have the guy with Astral Hazing be infected with MADS.

Yeah, the wanking to dragons and immortal elves is one of my least favorite parts of Shadowrun. I feel like character like Lofwyr or Ghostwalker or whatever work better as masterminds, but shit like "Dragons can totally burn down entire cities and nobody can stop them, olol" really clashes with the rest of the setting. And it doesn't help that Great Dragons have stats that are totally nowhere near powerful enough to do that, either. I'd much rather Ghostwalker took over Denver because he could use his knowledge and resources to raise and direct an effective rebellion or something like that, then flying in, being "olol, I'm unstoppable!" and taking over by the power of Plot.

And moving on to the next part of our tour of Saeder-Krupp landmarks, we're moving on to our great director and dragon overlord Lofwyr, in the process of having the biggest orgasm ever. You will find raincoats and hats in the bins against the wall.

Pretty much this - And if he survives, can you imagine the humiliation...

You also have the added "bonus" that the spell is sustainable, which essentially means that the victim will probably die from muscle cramps or dehydration.

Death by Snu-snu!

Well, let's see... I'd take:

1. A former wageslave now runner dog shaman
2. A human femal hermetic mage
3. An elven decker uhm hacker, whatever
4. An Orc merc
5. A native american street sam

Then I'd provide the sam - let's call him say Ghost-who-walks-inside - with a minigun and Lofwyr begone.

Just so you know, there are people out there who would draw that.

Fully the purview of rule 34, I fear.