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Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 9 2011, 08:02 PM) *
I'm pretty sure Daredevil has like sonar or something, right? smile.gif Anyway, someone mentioned above: this doesn't let you see, it just removes the -6 'Blind' penalty. This penalty never really made sense anyway, because most runners have DPs in the 12-18 range. Blind means you can't see, -infinity.


You may not be able to see, but I know Blind people that can function almost normally. Perception is NOT just VISION after all. smile.gif
Rubic
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 9 2011, 11:02 PM) *
I'm pretty sure Daredevil has like sonar or something, right? smile.gif Anyway, someone mentioned above: this doesn't let you see, it just removes the -6 'Blind' penalty. This penalty never really made sense anyway, because most runners have DPs in the 12-18 range. Blind means you can't see, -infinity.

Daredevil has all of his non-sight senses heightened to superhuman levels. His "biosonar" is just exceptionally heightened hearing. He can read the depressions caused by typeset on a newspaper through touch. He can tell the difference in tone of colors by the heat radiated (darker colors absorb more light and thus radiate more heat). His powers should not allow him to read a computer screen, nor to overcome the stigma of being played by the same actor who starred in Reindeer Games. It also does not render him immune to a 10-82.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 10 2011, 02:56 AM) *
*shrug* It's hardly the biggest example of abuse, sure. There's no reason to be Blind in the first place, it's a sub-optimal NQ. nyahnyah.gif The point is that it doesn't make sense for that to be a legal use of HC.

Now that I would definitely take issue with. The phenomenon of the visually impaired achieving a heightened level in their other sense is more than a casual observation. Recent neurological studies have shown that the brain doesn't just grow stronger in ways it can already function, such as interpretting sounds, but can actually grow in new ways in its efforts to compensate for the lack of visual stimuli. In the particular documentary that I'm citing here the case study in question was a blind footballer* who attested that he (along with other blind footballers**) could know exactly where the sideline was and be able to play accordingly, despite having no visual input of the fact. The reason is that their spatial awareness draws information from other sources in different and new ways to the extent that 22 blind people can play a watchable game. I guess the other input would be maintaining his bearings from stepping onto the pitch, the relative volumes of the crowd and coaches, etc.

What I'm getting at here, is that whilst in RL a blind person will never be able to perform as well as a seeing person in a firefight, when you're talking a compensation of Magic 6 in the SR world I think it works. The adept's elite Magic rating (along with the HC power) allows him to completely ignore the fact that he can't see and gains his spatial awareness from all the other myriad sources of information.

Bear in mind that for anything that absolutely mandates vision the HC power will not help. It can discount the modifier, but it can't substitute for sight itself. For example, if the adept was running down the street and a barrier had been placed in the way before he arrived then he doesn't get an unmodified gymnastics roll to jump it – he gets no roll at all. Being blind makes some physical actions very hard and all the others impossible and it's quite reasonable that HC can help with the former.

* As in soccer
** To clarify, they're not playing with or against seeing players
Yerameyahu
Rubic: That's just the explanation; the worthless fluff. The crunch is that he's pure magic. smile.gif That's what 'superhuman' means.

Tymeaus: Who said anything about Perception?

Aero: I don't think I said anything about blind brains. The HC ability doesn't make sense to use as a permanent effect, I meant. For anything. There are a number of other abilities for zatoichi stuff.
KarmaInferno
I am reminded of the titular character from the Book of Eli.





-k
HunterHerne
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Aug 10 2011, 02:14 AM) *
I am reminded of the titular character from the Book of Eli.





-k

Yeah, but he had a spirit whispering over his shoulder.
Fyndhal
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Aug 10 2011, 07:42 AM) *
Yeah, but he had a spirit whispering over his shoulder.


Mentor Spirit 10BP
Yerameyahu
Didn't someone *just* explain that a mentor spirit isn't a spirit? smile.gif Maybe wrong thread.
Fyndhal
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 10 2011, 07:56 AM) *
Didn't someone *just* explain that a mentor spirit isn't a spirit? smile.gif Maybe wrong thread.


Who cares...the joke worked!
Yerameyahu
Did it? smile.gif
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 10 2011, 09:56 AM) *
Didn't someone *just* explain that a mentor spirit isn't a spirit? smile.gif Maybe wrong thread.


Well, they are ideals, but I`ve always thought of them as spirits (great spirits, like gods. Unsummonable) that are so powerful their power leaks over and can affect how similarily minded creatures work magic. That is only my interpretation, however.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Aug 10 2011, 01:03 PM) *
Well, they are ideals, but I`ve always thought of them as spirits (great spirits, like gods. Unsummonable) that are so powerful their power leaks over and can affect how similarily minded creatures work magic. That is only my interpretation, however.


Well... Sam Verner had actual conversations with "Dog," so you can't be all wrong. smile.gif
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 10 2011, 06:16 PM) *
Well... Sam Verner had actual conversations with "Dog," so you can't be all wrong. smile.gif


And some of the in-book short stories had characters thinking about Raven as an actual person, and the Initiation chapter of SM had what I believe to be a boy talking to a Sky Father Mentor, though it is never actually stated.
DamienKnight
QUOTE (SR4a p.200)
Once a character Awakens, she may find that this
person or idea she had always felt strongly about has taken on a more
concrete existence, perhaps materializing in a physical form, perhaps
speaking to her mentally, or perhaps appearing in astral space and guiding
her to ever greater epiphanies.

Mentor spirits can represent any ideal the character has, from the Essence of an actual element like fire, to Jesus Christ himself. The way this is worded, Mentor Spirits are not limited to actual spirits or metaplanar creatures, but are Magic manifesting to the Magician in a way that is meaningful to the Magician himself. It is magic within the caster responding to the casters inner thoughts and beliefs. it is a subconscious tapping of metaplanar power, and not an actual spirit.

Now I would think that this subconscious tapping of magic could do things like call a free spirit to the caster to manifest his Mentor's presence, but the spirit itself is not the actual Mentor Spirit, just a manifestation of it.

These things are so fun for a GM. Its a great way to give cryptic foreshadowing to a player, or to give hints or warnings to the player when they are acting outside the tenants of their mentor.
KarmaInferno
You're all wrong, of course.

Mentor spirits are Horrors in disguise.

wobble.gif




-k
Yerameyahu
I think they're all in the mages' heads. If they meet them, if they go somewhere, if they guide them, it's all internal invention and unexplained magic weirdness. It's magic, after all. smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 11 2011, 08:52 AM) *
I think they're all in the mages' heads. If they meet them, if they go somewhere, if they guide them, it's all internal invention and unexplained magic weirdness. It's magic, after all. smile.gif


Which Works...
Yerameyahu
Hehe. I just prefer thinking that mages are basically insane, it amuses me. And it avoids those stupid D&D deities.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 11 2011, 09:13 AM) *
Hehe. I just prefer thinking that mages are basically insane, it amuses me. And it avoids those stupid D&D deities.


No THAT I have to agree with. wobble.gif
Bodak
QUOTE (mmmkay @ Aug 9 2011, 07:58 AM) *
I still have a lingering question about what 25% discount rounding normally means. 0.25 pp powers get discounted to 0.1875, 0.188, 0.19, 0.2? Which decimal do we round to is what I normal ask, but there are times in SR when you round down, so I'm not sure what to think here.
When Street Magic reprinted the adept geasa 25% power point discount, they used the same wording:
QUOTE
Adepts and Geasa
For a more adept-driven game, gamemasters may allow adepts to voluntarily take a geas for a specific adept power; in return, the Power Point cost for that power is reduced by 25 percent (round normally). In this case, breaking the geasa (sic) only affects that power; the adepts remaining geasa-limited powers are unaffected.
We use this optional rule. Since this feature is descended unchanged from SR3 and there doesn't seem to be any new rounding system introduced, we have ruled that the rounding might as well descend unchanged from SR3 too:
QUOTE
Adepts and Geasa
A power limited by a voluntary geas costs 75 percent of the standard cost (round fractions up to the nearest quarter point), with a minimum cost of .25 Power Points. For example, purchasing the astral perception power (standard cost of 2) with a geas costs only 1.5 Power Points (2 x .75 = 1.5). If the power is purchased in levels, the reduction in cost is applied to the total cost of the power. For example, if the character purchases the body control power (standard cost of .5 per level) at level 3 with a geas, he pays 1.25 Power Points (.5 per level x 3 levels = 1.5 total cost; 1.5 x .75 geasa reduction = 1.125, rounded up to 1.25).
This works well and keeps the numbers tidy.

QUOTE ( @ Aug 10 2011, 06:50 AM) *
On rounding of power costs: for ease of use, add the total cost of all discounted powers together, then discount the total. Rounding up to the nearest .25 point might look better but is unnecessary.
In our experience things like this just encourage the adept to geas everything so that they end up with Magic x 1.333 Power Points. As the numbers the OP quoted demonstrated, the powers in such lists have needlessly awkward costs. We have found the MitS ruling works much better. There's no point geasing a single rank power that has a base cost of 0.25, but if you're buying a really hefty 4-point power, a geas is a significant boon. Consequently the geasa get used only where the character is investing strongly in a certain direction - not spattered about on every whim the adept dabbles in.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
There are times that a Geasa SHOULD apply to every aspect of an Adepts ability. In fact, I prefer this, as it is a true limit, assuming that the applied Geas makes sense. Another reason why your Adept should be competant without his magic, at least in my opinion. smile.gif
Bodak
I don't know why the quotes in my post above lost their references. The first was Street Magic page thirty something. The second was Magic in the Shadows page 33. I wrote
CODE
[quote name='Magic in the Shadows p33']
and everything.

QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 15 2011, 11:19 PM) *
There are times that a Geasa SHOULD apply to every aspect of an Adepts ability. In fact, I prefer this, as it is a true limit, assuming that the applied Geas makes sense. Another reason why your Adept should be competant without his magic, at least in my opinion. smile.gif
Oh certainly. I have no objection to this. You can see from my previous post my objection is to the motivation such a liberal ruling encourages. Under the MitS rounding scheme, you definitely could have every adept power geased, no doubt about it. For character flavour I'm all for it. You wouldn't however end up with Magic x 1.333 effective Power Points worth of powers. If you allow that (which it seems you are endorsing) you're ignoring the "(round normally)" part of the (now) optional rule. You're not rounding at all.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Bodak @ Aug 15 2011, 05:56 PM) *
I don't know why the quotes in my post above lost their references. The first was Street Magic page thirty something. The second was Magic in the Shadows page 33. I wrote
CODE
[quote name='Magic in the Shadows p33']
and everything.

Oh certainly. I have no objection to this. You can see from my previous post my objection is to the motivation such a liberal ruling encourages. Under the MitS rounding scheme, you definitely could have every adept power geased, no doubt about it. For character flavour I'm all for it. You wouldn't however end up with Magic x 1.333 effective Power Points worth of powers. If you allow that (which it seems you are endorsing) you're ignoring the "(round normally)" part of the (now) optional rule. You're not rounding at all.



Nope, No Rounding at all. Keep the Decimals to 3 places and record them. Otherwise, the benefits of taking a Geas on a power that is only 0.25 PP is non-existant. I like to keep the benefits, and it has yet to overpower any character that I have every seen. Your Mileage may vary, and all that.
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