Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Health deterioration
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
Aerospider
It has struck me that a character can suffer further damage by simply resting (critical glitch on the healing roll) but can keep 'running to his heart's content without his injuries being aggravated by all the exertion.

I'd like to fix this, so how does the following house rule sound?

For each full day not devoted entirely to rest an injured character must make an Edge test with a threshold of the sum of his physical and stun wound modifiers. Failure incurs an extra box of damage to each track that contributed to the threshold. This extra damage is not considered a new injury for the purposes of first aid or magical healing.

Example:

A samurai and a shaman have just dispatched a security team but got hurt in the process. The samurai took 7 boxes of physical and 2 stun whilst the shaman took 3 physical and 5 stun. They press on with the run and are still going 24 hours later. They both roll an Edge (2) test and both fail. The samurai gains 1 physical damage but no more stun whilst the shaman gains 1 physical and 1 stun. Had the shaman rested for an hour or two to drop his stun down to 2 he'd have only had a threshold of 1 but would still have had to make the roll.
Aerospider
Note - I do not allow natural sleep to be used for healing stun. If one of my players spends the night recovering his stun damage he runs the risk of sleep deprivation if he doesn't get his normal sleep in as well. YMMV
HunterHerne
I like the premise, as I am a big fan of gritty game styles, but I don't know about the execution. Part of it, is that you might be over simplifying. According to the Fatigue Damage rules (SR4A 164), a character jogging at his base running rate can do so for (Body+ hits on running test) x 2 minutes, and starts taking fatigue damage (treated as stun, max 6 boxes). After taking 6 boxes, characters make a Body+ Willpower (2) test, and if they fail automatically stop, are exhausted, and may not take part in strenuous activity until they have rested. Damage modifiers apply to both these tests. If they glitch, I wouldn't balk at an additional box of damage. And if they crit glitch, I wouldn't be surprised if you make them roll an Edge test or break something (or something less sever if they pass the edge test).
Summerstorm
Hm... edge-test with threshold wound modifier... that is... insane. Most people can't make that.

I mean just a normal dude who had a bit stun-damage from sleep deprivation Which you don't let them regenerate through sleep will DIE -well ok, will fall over exhausted- after ten days or so, while leading a normal life Work/sleep, having afternoon activities. Just because he doesn't sit down and stares at the wall for 2 hours?

Well, i like the whole deterioting effect - Also as a greater effect: I like my Move-by-Wire, Reflex Boosters, Brain-altering cyberware etc. to RUIN a man long-term. And the healing times WAY lower. Someone totally shot up shouldn't be up and running after two days bedrest.

And i also agree that bad wounds should get worse over time. And the WORST wounds should get worse in even a small amount of time. In a game i designed, a hyper-realistic modern-day system i had THREE condition-monitors because of that. Bloodvolume, Shock and Trauma. As well as wound-effects per organs/limbs.

But i wouldn't like to have all that in my shadowrun. Just have the GM make judgement calls on that without rules... worked for me so far.
Yerameyahu
Isn't sleep healing stun the whole point?
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 21 2011, 12:25 PM) *
Isn't sleep healing stun the whole point?


That's the general idea I had. I will likely always allow it, but I already use gritty rules, and am not afraid to allow wounds get worse with even minor glitching (though "worse" is usually a doubled wound modifier, or doubled healing interval. Even so, with only body or will... and negatives from environment...)
Tanegar
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 21 2011, 11:25 AM) *
Isn't sleep healing stun the whole point?

This. When I read, "I do not allow natural sleep to be used for healing stun" I literally thought "LOLwut?" If sleep doesn't heal stun damage, what the hell does?
Aerospider
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 21 2011, 05:25 PM) *
Isn't sleep healing stun the whole point?

Well I wouldn't shout down that interpretation, but I don't really like the idea of 7-8 free healing rolls per day. Stun damage can represent much more serious injuries than a bit of a headache and with that many rolls you could clear a full damage track without changing your routine at all. Even the slower healing options don't make it very interesting.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Aug 21 2011, 06:33 PM) *
This. When I read, "I do not allow natural sleep to be used for healing stun" I literally thought "LOLwut?" If sleep doesn't heal stun damage, what the hell does?

Extra sleep.
Maybe I should have clarified - in my game sleep can stave off sleep deprivation and it can heal stun, but not both simultaneously.
Yerameyahu
I guess. Stun damage is *supposed* to heal fast, that's why it's stun. That's why it's so easy to inflict, that's why we bother with Physical damage. *shrug*
Tanegar
And the purpose of that is... what, exactly? Sorry, but this smacks of Fake Difficulty to me: making the game harder for the sake of making the game harder, or (worse) for the sake of punishing the players, rather than because it adds anything to the experience other than frustration.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Aug 21 2011, 05:24 PM) *
Hm... edge-test with threshold wound modifier... that is... insane. Most people can't make that.

Well, damage tracks with less than three boxes don't factor in at all and it's only one extra box per day.
Maybe it would work better to roll for physical and stun tracks separately so the thresholds don't stack.

Ultimately I'm looking for a way to make it hurt for, say, a guy with two bullets in him to carry on as though nothing had happened. Putting a time factor on the need for healing is also attractive to me. I just don't know what's likely to be too much in terms of both penalty and complexity.
Tanegar
A guy with two bullets in him can't carry on as though nothing happened, because he has penalties from those wounds. The least amount of damage a single gunshot can inflict, before the soak roll, is 5P (a hold-out with one net hit). If the victim manages to soak that down to less than 3P (entirely possible), it is assumed that he suffered a grazing or otherwise non-impairing wound.

Basically, I think you're trying to fix something that isn't broken. If a character gets hit badly enough to impair him, that's reflected with wound penalties. If he doesn't get hit badly enough to impair him, why inflict artificial penalties?
CanRay
Sorry, the idea at the start of this thread made me think of something: "Don't those bulletholes hurt?" "Nah, I'll just walk it off." "They're in your legs." "I'll crawl it off."
HunterHerne
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 21 2011, 02:03 PM) *
Sorry, the idea at the start of this thread made me think of something: "Don't those bulletholes hurt?" "Nah, I'll just walk it off." "They're in your legs." "I'll crawl it off."


Haha. Not what I thought, but not a bad one.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Aug 21 2011, 06:51 PM) *
And the purpose of that is... what, exactly? Sorry, but this smacks of Fake Difficulty to me: making the game harder for the sake of making the game harder, or (worse) for the sake of punishing the players, rather than because it adds anything to the experience other than frustration.

That's a fair comment, not that I agree. Imagine someone kicking the crap out of you until you fall unconscious. When you awake 8 hours later would you expect to feel like you do on any other morning? I would venture that you'd sleep longer than usual and awake still feeling somewhat sore.

For the player the inconvenience can be relatively minor (sleeping for twice as long will most often be quite sufficient) and I think it's because it's minor that you got the fake difficulty impression, if you don't mind me conjecturing so.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Aug 21 2011, 07:01 PM) *
A guy with two bullets in him can't carry on as though nothing happened, because he has penalties from those wounds. The least amount of damage a single gunshot can inflict, before the soak roll, is 5P (a hold-out with one net hit). If the victim manages to soak that down to less than 3P (entirely possible), it is assumed that he suffered a grazing or otherwise non-impairing wound.

Basically, I think you're trying to fix something that isn't broken. If a character gets hit badly enough to impair him, that's reflected with wound penalties. If he doesn't get hit badly enough to impair him, why inflict artificial penalties?

Ah no, I meant more like how a guy with bullet wounds would normally put everything on hold until he got himself sorted instead of carrying on and risking the wounds deteriorating further.

I do want to hear that RAW's not broken (if people think it) so thanks. My motivation is to create a sense of "Crap, if I don't take care of this I'm in trouble" or "Hey guys, I dunno how long the mage can keep this sh*t up".
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 21 2011, 02:11 PM) *
That's a fair comment, not that I agree. Imagine someone kicking the crap out of you until you fall unconscious. When you awake 8 hours later would you expect to feel like you do on any other morning? I would venture that you'd sleep longer than usual and awake still feeling somewhat sore.

For the player the inconvenience can be relatively minor (sleeping for twice as long will most often be quite sufficient) and I think it's because it's minor that you got the fake difficulty impression, if you don't mind me conjecturing so.


I agree with you, by the standard rules. But, if I have a guy in my games who was beaten unconcious from only stun damage, with Will 3 and Body 3, they wouldn't get a healing test. In fact, if they were beaten unconcious on the street, that's another -2, so they need at least a med kit rating 3, some kind of fast healing, medicinal aid, or a combination of the above to even try a standard test. Or, they could spend edge and longshot. In this situation, I might even cause more trouble, like physical damage the longer they are exposed (either one box every body hours, or maybe a test using whatever the absolute negative value to the test is.) until they longshot enough times to heal somewhat well, or burn an edge to survive.

Edit: Each hour I would roll an edge test to see if someone notices (threshold dependant on where he gets beaten at), and calls for aid.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 21 2011, 06:50 PM) *
I guess. Stun damage is *supposed* to heal fast, that's why it's stun. That's why it's so easy to inflict, that's why we bother with Physical damage. *shrug*

I've always thought of stun and physical injuries having a little overlap, whereby things like contusions and minor tissue damage can fall in either camp with the abstracted damage track system separating them according to how long they'll take to heal. Like, a club and a fist can cause very similar types of injuries but you get over the effects of one rather quicker than the other. But maybe that's just me.
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 21 2011, 02:27 PM) *
I've always thought of stun and physical injuries having a little overlap, whereby things like contusions and minor tissue damage can fall in either camp with the abstracted damage track system separating them according to how long they'll take to heal. Like, a club and a fist can cause very similar types of injuries but you get over the effects of one rather quicker than the other. But maybe that's just me.


I don't see where your argument counters his statement in any way. In fact, I see both statements getting along quite nicely.
Tanegar
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 21 2011, 01:11 PM) *
Imagine someone kicking the crap out of you until you fall unconscious. When you awake 8 hours later would you expect to feel like you do on any other morning? I would venture that you'd sleep longer than usual and awake still feeling somewhat sore.

This is one of those situations where real-reality and game-reality don't mesh. In real life, it's completely possible to beat a person to death with your bare hands, without necessarily rendering them unconscious beforehand. In Shadowrun, it isn't. You must fill up your victim's Stun track before unarmed damage starts carrying over to Physical. It's one of those Acceptable Break from Reality thingies.

Also, minor nitpick: if he's kicking me, I assume he's wearing boots, or at least shoes of some kind. Hard surfaces (like hardliner gloves, Arsenal, p. 39) convert unarmed damage from Stun to Physical.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Aug 21 2011, 07:48 PM) *
Also, minor nitpick: if he's kicking me, I assume he's wearing boots, or at least shoes of some kind. Hard surfaces (like hardliner gloves, Arsenal, p. 39) convert unarmed damage from Stun to Physical.

I don't know much about densiplast, but I wouldn't rule that the leather and rubber that goes into footwear has the same effect. The kick maneuver doesn't mention it either.
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Aug 21 2011, 02:48 PM) *
This is one of those situations where real-reality and game-reality don't mesh. In real life, it's completely possible to beat a person to death with your bare hands, without necessarily rendering them unconscious beforehand. In Shadowrun, it isn't. You must fill up your victim's Stun track before unarmed damage starts carrying over to Physical. It's one of those Acceptable Break from Reality thingies.

Also, minor nitpick: if he's kicking me, I assume he's wearing boots, or at least shoes of some kind. Hard surfaces (like hardliner gloves, Arsenal, p. 39) convert unarmed damage from Stun to Physical.

On beating someone to death w/o unconcious: Yes, it is possible, but how often does it happen, especially from someone not trained to deal lethal blows? (I would consider a drunken brawl where someone gets on top of someone and beats him to death to follow the concious-unconcious-dead line)

For the outliers, there are several in-game ways to have it done: If neither are wearing armour, glitches and crit glitches on the damage resistance test could, by the right GM, convert to Physical damage. Internal bleeding could result from an afformentioned glitch, or from the Severe Wounds rules (which I use in my games). In fact, these two rules cover just about everything that could happen. But, throw some armour on, and they get a lot less likely.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Aug 21 2011, 07:48 PM) *
This is one of those situations where real-reality and game-reality don't mesh. In real life, it's completely possible to beat a person to death with your bare hands, without necessarily rendering them unconscious beforehand. In Shadowrun, it isn't. You must fill up your victim's Stun track before unarmed damage starts carrying over to Physical. It's one of those Acceptable Break from Reality thingies.

I'm quite happy for acceptable breaks from reality things per se, but they don't have to be accepted if there is an acceptable alternative too.

Also, the Severe Wounds optional rules in Augmentation do allow for killing a guy with your bare hands without filling the stun track at all. Specifically a critical glitch on the damage resistance test and possibly from heavy damage.
Tanegar
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 21 2011, 02:06 PM) *
I'm quite happy for acceptable breaks from reality things per se, but they don't have to be accepted if there is an acceptable desirable alternative too.

Fixed that for you. You never have articulated precisely why this houserule of yours is supposed to be desirable. What does it add, other than making an already offense-biased game even more offense-biased?
Aerospider
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Aug 21 2011, 08:27 PM) *
Fixed that for you. You never have articulated precisely why this houserule of yours is supposed to be desirable. What does it add, other than making an already offense-biased game even more offense-biased?

Realism and/or drama. You crack a rib and then continue to run around fighting, shagging and drinking that same injury is going to get worse eventually. And I believe my original post did mention something about how simply resting can make an injury worse but not resting can't (barring certain severe wounds).

Also I do not accept your fix. An alternative only has to be acceptable to be a feasible option. If an alternative is desirable then the implication is that it is better than the current set up, which was not required for my statement. I'm not the only one fixing unbroken things it seems.
Critias
I've just got to ask, but why Edge? I'm not entirely opposed to rolls that exacerbate injuries (in theory), but I'm not sure why you chose Edge for this one, instead of Body or Willpower, to show physical grit and determination.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Critias @ Aug 21 2011, 10:14 PM) *
I've just got to ask, but why Edge? I'm not entirely opposed to rolls that exacerbate injuries (in theory), but I'm not sure why you chose Edge for this one, instead of Body or Willpower, to show physical grit and determination.

Good question. I was going with the heavy damage mechanism and the notion that the bumps, scrapes and other myriad potential sources of injury-aggravation are largely down to luck (or misfortune perhaps). Also, I like finding/constructing new uses for the Edge attribute because I find my players tend to consider it a relatively unimportant stat. Not that they don't make good use of it, but more like it's a bonus rather than a core part of their character's make up. But Body/Willpower could well make more sense.
Critias
Why not Body + Edge or Willpower + Edge, then? That way it makes sense for the big, tough guy to be less bothered by injuries, or for the grim, dedicated, guy to be able to tough his way through it...but you'd still be encouraging Edge at your table, and adding in some in-universe "luck" for it (not just the out-of-universe luck whenever dice are getting rolled).

I guess it just seems weird for me that BA Baracus is likely to torn apart by acting while injured, as Face whistles a jaunty tune to himself and ignores the bullet in his belly as their job progresses, y'know? It seems like stats besides Edge could play SOME part.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Critias @ Aug 21 2011, 11:11 PM) *
Why not Body + Edge or Willpower + Edge, then? That way it makes sense for the big, tough guy to be less bothered by injuries, or for the grim, dedicated, guy to be able to tough his way through it...but you'd still be encouraging Edge at your table, and adding in some in-universe "luck" for it (not just the out-of-universe luck whenever dice are getting rolled).

I guess it just seems weird for me that BA Baracus is likely to torn apart by acting while injured, as Face whistles a jaunty tune to himself and ignores the bullet in his belly as their job progresses, y'know? It seems like stats besides Edge could play SOME part.

I like your thinking. The double-stat also makes it less of a threat.
Aerospider
I'm also now wondering whether the whole day of rest requirement is too strict. Perhaps if the character does get in a few hours of rest (maybe one hour per level of wound modifier, maybe GM call, maybe fixed at 2 or 3) that should be enough to keep stable as well as knock down the stun a little. I like the idea of a player having a medium option between heal and carry on regardless.
Critias
The idea as a whole just comes down to how cinematic versus realistic a game you want to play. Given some of the built-in absurdity of the setting (trolls, mages, dragons, and everything else), I got out of my "realistic" phase pretty quickly, myself. In my opinion it's more fun and awesome for healing to be over with quickly and cinematically and for the players to get back into the action as soon as possible; keep the dice rolling, keep the game moving, and get single-player time sensitive stuff (like healing) over with as soon as possible to get the group back together.

*shrugs*

As always, YMMV.
Tanegar
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 21 2011, 04:15 PM) *
Also I do not accept your fix. An alternative only has to be acceptable to be a feasible option. If an alternative is desirable then the implication is that it is better than the current set up, which was not required for my statement. I'm not the only one fixing unbroken things it seems.

I disagree in the most vehement manner possible. If both options are merely "acceptable" then there's no reason for the fix. Desirability is an implicit requirement for all house rules.
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Aug 21 2011, 06:44 PM) *
I disagree in the most vehement manner possible. If both options are merely "acceptable" then there's no reason for the fix. Desirability is an implicit requirement for all house rules.


I agree. The desire for a gritty, actions-have-consequences, but not adjusting the ruleset with new details is what motivated my choices, and provides the realism/drama Aerospider is looking for, at least in my opinion. But, to each their own.

Edit: I just realized I may not have been exactly clear, as he is looking for a way to cause injuries to exacerbate. I look at glitches as the reason to cause wounds to become trouble, and with wound modifiers are more likely, on all tests, not just DR and healing. Also, I randomly call for disease tests, which can represent infection, or just a lowered immune response during the injury period.
Irion
First: Stun should heal fast. So after a night of sleep it should have been taken care of.
Second:Yes, the optional rules for heavy damage should be used if you want realism. (It is kind of silly not to use them and than complain about healing too fast)
Theired: Physical damage should be more severe. But it is kind of hard. The main issue here is, that most charactes do not have a lot of Hitpoints/boxes. Around 10 for the avarage guy and 13 for the max body troll.
So the troll body 10 troll needs 4 days to heal up on his own...
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Irion @ Aug 21 2011, 07:58 PM) *
First: Stun should heal fast. So after a night of sleep it should have been taken care of.
Second:Yes, the optional rules for heavy damage should be used if you want realism. (It is kind of silly not to use them and than complain about healing too fast)
Theired: Physical damage should be more severe. But it is kind of hard. The main issue here is, that most charactes do not have a lot of Hitpoints/boxes. Around 10 for the avarage guy and 13 for the max body troll.
So the troll body 10 troll needs 4 days to heal up on his own...


Yeah, though I don't agree with that, so much. I want PC's to take into account the downtime and long-term effects of actions. And suffer appropriately for being a Troll who decides to tank a bomb because he can. My use of the rules means to heal full, it'd take him quite a bit longer. In one example on another thread, a Troll with 10 body and 20 damage would be completely healed in 3 days. In my game, in a middle lifestyle room and no care, he'd be unconscious for an average of 3 days.
Yerameyahu
I sympathize with 'getting the crap kicked out of you' not going away overnight. I just feel like you'd have Physical damage as a result, in which case it would *already* take longer. smile.gif If you take only Stun damage, you were 'just knocked out'; cinematically, that just means a nap. 'Beaten up' means at least a little Physical mixed in.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Irion @ Aug 21 2011, 05:58 PM) *
First: Stun should heal fast. So after a night of sleep it should have been taken care of.
Second:Yes, the optional rules for heavy damage should be used if you want realism. (It is kind of silly not to use them and than complain about healing too fast)
Theired: Physical damage should be more severe. But it is kind of hard. The main issue here is, that most charactes do not have a lot of Hitpoints/boxes. Around 10 for the avarage guy and 13 for the max body troll.
So the troll body 10 troll needs 4 days to heal up on his own...


Got a human with 19 boxes... smile.gif
Just saying...
suoq
If someone is kicking the crap out of a shadowrun wageslave (closest thing I can think to represent me in game), yes, that overflow* damage still hurts the next morning. Most (if not all) of the night I'm busy healing the stun damage. Until that's gone I can't even begin to heal the physical damage and that heals a lot more slowly.

* the excess stun damage that gets converted into physical because it wasn't precise work done by an Igor and, besides, everyone needs to get a last kick in, even if the guy is unconscious.

Draco18s
If you don't like the healing rules, here's a better idea:

Change the interval.

Stun is now 1 roll per day and Physical is now 1 roll per week.

That should keep your characters down longer.

(Because rolling six dice against a threshold of 1-18 isn't such a great idea. 6 boxes of stun + physical is barely incapacitating (-2 DP tops) but impossible for any character to actually GET the successes).
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Aug 22 2011, 11:01 AM) *
If you don't like the healing rules, here's a better idea:

Change the interval.

Stun is now 1 roll per day and Physical is now 1 roll per week.

That should keep your characters down longer.

(Because rolling six dice against a threshold of 1-18 isn't such a great idea. 6 boxes of stun + physical is barely incapacitating (-2 DP tops) but impossible for any character to actually GET the successes).


Wow, even for me that seems a bit harsh...
Yerameyahu
Personally, I think the Physical healing is very fast (and I understand this to be a normal view?), esp. with healing options in the game. Probably too fast, but that's a game-versus-realism issue.

As for Stun, I strongly think it *should* be easy to shake off. It's easy to inflict, and it's meant to be a much more temporary disabling factor. That's why tasers exist, and are allowed to exist. If people were running around with 24 hour knockout devices, the laws would be very different.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Aug 22 2011, 04:01 PM) *
If you don't like the healing rules, here's a better idea:

Change the interval.

Stun is now 1 roll per day and Physical is now 1 roll per week.

That should keep your characters down longer.

(Because rolling six dice against a threshold of 1-18 isn't such a great idea. 6 boxes of stun + physical is barely incapacitating (-2 DP tops) but impossible for any character to actually GET the successes).

Holy crap dude, tell me that's just facetiousness there! Also, I'm not really sure what that last bit is going on about. Threshold 18...?

I'm really not out to just keep them down longer. I am mostly very happy with the healing rules, I just have the two minor niggles but I accept that neither has found much sympathy.
Que sera sera.
darthmord
The older editions had the wound severity play into the healing time. For Physical damage, Light wounds were a day, Moderate wounds were a week, Severe I think were 2 weeks, and Deadly was a month and that was just to heal a box per success.

I'd have to go dig up my old books to get the exact numbers though. You may want to consider something like that. Perhaps every 3 boxes of damage up the healing time interval by a notch to represent more complex and damaging wounds.
Yerameyahu
Sounds good, darthmord. Every-three would be a simple add-on to the existing system, and it lets truly serious wounds matter (if that's a problem for a given group).
Draco18s
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 22 2011, 12:38 PM) *
Holy crap dude, tell me that's just facetiousness there! Also, I'm not really sure what that last bit is going on about. Threshold 18...?


I realize I went a little high, upon rereading the OP.

The maximum possible is going to be around...6 + 10, so 16.

Low Pain tollerance on characters with 8 willpower and 16 body (and/or cyberware). On normal people (i.e. neither high nor low pain tollerance) you're looking at 4+7 or 11 and your average person is going to top out at 6. Which is still absurd.

In other words: do the math first, then insult me if I was wrong.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Aug 22 2011, 06:46 PM) *
I realize I went a little high, upon rereading the OP.

The maximum possible is going to be around...6 + 10, so 16.

Low Pain tollerance on characters with 8 willpower and 16 body (and/or cyberware). On normal people (i.e. neither high nor low pain tollerance) you're looking at 4+7 or 11 and your average person is going to top out at 6. Which is still absurd.

In other words: do the math first, then insult me if I was wrong.

I just don't know what maths you're doing. Could you put in the wordy bits as well as the numbery bits?
Draco18s
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 22 2011, 02:59 PM) *
I just don't know what maths you're doing. Could you put in the wordy bits as well as the numbery bits?


I calculated "maximum willpower" and "maximum body" independently. If I get a little more realistic:

Maximum Body: 12 (exceptional and genetweaked troll) + cyber boost: 18
Maximum willpower (on said character): 6 (no tweaks, no cyber)
Maximum number of boxes (each track): 17/11
Add cyberware bonus boxes (2 per limb): 12
Total track size: 29/11

29 boxes can incur a maximum DP penalty of -9
11 boxes can incur a maximum DP penalty of -3

Total: -12. A TH of 12 on a maximum dicepool of 7 is not a good thing.

That's before Low Pain Tollerance (which is -1 per 2 boxes, rather than -1 per 3), which would get us to 14+5 or 19.

Even on an average human you're looking at 11 boxes twice, which is -3 per track, total of -6 with a maximum ever achievable edge value of 8 (and getting 6 hits on 8 dice is RARE as fuck (1.7%)).
Yerameyahu
What I don't get is *why* you're doing the numbery bits here. What is the proposition you're trying to prove? Penalties can go really high? That people really hurt can't heal naturally/alone?
Draco18s
This is why:

QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 21 2011, 09:20 AM) *
For each full day not devoted entirely to rest an injured character must make an Edge test with a threshold of the sum of his physical and stun wound modifiers. Failure incurs an extra box of damage to each track that contributed to the threshold. This extra damage is not considered a new injury for the purposes of first aid or magical healing.


The point was to point out how arbitrary and impossible such a rule would be.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012