QUOTE (Stormdrake @ Jan 12 2012, 02:07 PM)

I really have to remember to use visibility penalties on spell casters. Would partial cover apply as well though do you think? The reason I ask is the discription for alot of the spells simply says line of site. If the caster can see the targets foot then he has line of site and the wall the target is hiding behind does nothing.
I generally regard it as such. While it doesn't explicitly state this is the case, if visibility problems can impede casting, then cover should as well, especially given the book's cautions against allowing players to block out their LOS against allies in the midst of enemies in order to lob AOE Direct Spells.
QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jan 12 2012, 02:13 PM)

A starting sam who's shooting-heavy will have between 12 and 16 dice to lay on the hurt. The only way to really increase that is with vast amounts of money and essence and vast amounts of Karma (for skill 7 or raising AGI)
AGI 9, Skill 6, spec 2, reflex recorder 1, smartlink 2 = 20 dice for shooter (+tacnet), nearly no room for expansion (exept stuff like aptitude and exceptional attribute)
MAG 6, Skill 6, spec 2, mentor 2, power focus 4 = 20 dice for mage (+ bound/ally spirit), theoretically unlimited expansion
That's not entirely true. A
shitty street sam will only have 12 to 16 dice. A serious street sam will probably have between 14 and 20, more likely 16 and 20. Let's break it down.
A starting mage with a die pool of 20, as you say, has paid: 15 BP to be a mage, 65bp to get Magic 6, 24bp to get Spellcasting 6, 5bp for a Mentor Spirit, 2 BP for a Specialization in Combat Spells, and can only start with a power focus rating 2, because anything higher is too high of an availability. Let's not get into Restricted Gear qualities, because that opens many more doors for street sams than it does mages. But a rating 2 power focus costs 12bp - 10 for the money and 2 bp to bond.
Total Cost: 123BP.
Die Pool: 20.
A starting street sam, on the other hand, pays nothing to be alive. Let's say he raises his Agility to 6 for 65bp and his firearms skill of choice to 6 for 24BP. He pays 2BP to specialize in whatever subclass of gun he wants to rock out with. He then spends 5BP to start with on gear, and buys a Smartlink for 1,000, Reflex Recorder for 10,000, and Muscle Toner 2 for 10,000. Remainder of the money goes to armor and a gun.
Total cost: 96 BP
Die Pool: 19.
Are you seriously suggesting that "potentially" unlimited growth - but that is ACTUALLY extremely limited, because the Street Samurai can spend less money to increase his die pool - is worth 27 build points? If the street sam was willing to lose 2 more points of die pool from his Agility and weapon skill of choice, he'd have spent
56 less build points than the mage. And he doesn't even have a tacnet yet.
QUOTE
Well, because you can stunball everyone in your FOV, which is vastly superior to throwing grenades. Also, getting a high reaction is a trivial exercise (you can get up to 10 Points of REA with cyber- & bioware), whereas augmenting willpower is not that easy. Also, your targets do not get a soak roll for damage (this is really critical if you go against some famous tank troll)
No, augmenting willpower is not easy, but I don't know about saying it's "vastly superior to throwing grenades" - I can get an automatic grenade launcher for a trivial amount of money and challenge that assumption. I can fire those grenades into places I can't see, whereas if you can't see me, you can't hit me *at all*.
QUOTE
That means the opposition has from 2-12 dice to resist the mage, who has up to 20 dice (even more with bound spirits) to fry them.
That's true, but the same is true of people shooting at you: if you go full defense, you'll have less dice than the people shooting, owing to the fact that there are more ways to add to shooting than dodging bullets.
QUOTE
Now I, the gang leader with a heavy pistol (incl. laser sight) shoot back at you. I have AGI 5 (3 + used muscle replacement 2) and skill 4 with a specialization. Due to vision penalities, i loose 2 dice. The obscured FOV applies to me too, another die lost. The 6 damage you dealt me cost another 2 dice, and the 27m distance between us means this is medium range for my pistol, -3 for me. So i have now 4 dice to shoot you on the first attempt, and 3 on the second. You can try to evade them with reaction (50/50 chance with REA 3-4), and then you are going to soak the damage with Body+Armor, eg. 9-12 dice (BOD 3-4 with max armor). If you stunball me from more than 40m away, your pool doesn't change, but mine drops by another -3.
Whoa whoa. Base attribute 3, skill 4, and no smartlink, against this mage? In this example, your gang leader is SEVERELY underpowered compared to the caster.
For equal build points we should include a smartlink, for one, bumping base die pool from 11 to 13. Then increase his base AGI and gun skill by 1 each, which takes the pool to 15. Let's leave aside for the moment the fact that he should also get a Trauma Dampener, a biomonitor, and an auto-injector with Stim chems, because while *I* always do that, others do not.
So his net pool is 15, and he loses 1 from the cover. However, a ganger with half a brain will have low-light AND thermo in his eyes/goggles, whereas the mage needs to suck up essence loss for that, or can't cast anyway. So the ganger loses 0 to lighting conditions. He does take wounds, and loses another 2 dice for that. That drops him from 15 dice to 12 dice. Who says we're at medium range? I guess you do, so okay. Another -3. 9 dice. However, that's 9 dice per shot - it's like 100 nuyen to put a customized grip in your pistol. Not doing it is rank stupidity. So zero recoil. On average, that's 3 hits and 3 hits. Mages generally don't have a super-stellar reaction, though, so you're probably rocking 3-4 REA to dodge. On average, 2 hits on each.
What's the gun do? 5P -1Armor? Okay. But who loads standard rounds? Let's stick some ex-ex in that, cuz again, it's
cheap and readily available. So that becomes 6p -2 armor.
If the mage isn't an asshat he's rocking an armored jacket that's been custom fitted so his body doesn't matter for encumberance. Since I'm assuming the mage isn't an asshat, he has this. Body 3, we'll say. Body 3+8 Ballistic, -2 for armor penetration? Okay, that's 9 dice. He'll soak 3 on average, and still takes 5 physical damage each shot.
If our ganger was packing an SMG or an assault rifle, shit gets way worse for the mage in a hurry. This is why if the mage wanted to end shit in a hurry, he should suck up the risk, overcast the mana spell to force 6 to 8 and hope for the best. If he doesn't wanna do that, cast it as I outlined before, and use a free action to drop prone so the ganger doesn't have LOS to fire back. Then the mage can pop on improved invisibility, roll Infiltration, and try and get the drop on the ganger again. And lest you say this proves the mage is better, what if the ganger got the drop on the mage, rather than vice versa? The two bullets will still, on average, kill the mage dead. And the ganger can drop prone behind an object too, rendering the mage's direct combat spells useless.
Unless you are stacking the deck in the mage's favor, if we are assuming equal money/karma, and tactical intelligence, shit is much more even than it seems at first blush.