Well, this has been an interesting discussion, I've got to say, and, yeah, I definitely agree with the viewpoint that objectification of women is an issue; for a classic example, the bikini-wearing models that prance around at car exhibitions, or this video. (and while we're linking articles, here's one on women in gaming that I rescued and saved to my wiki after its hosting site went down)

And I agree with Eimi; I'd never put these implants in a character "just because"; there'd have to be a good reason, character-wise. However, they are valid parts of the world and should be available for use.

If this is reference to the comments following my statement about cyber breast being useful to quickly changing ones appearance, i feel i have to mention that is't the actual reason why she has them(possibly should have included this mention in the original post), just me trying to find gameplay uses for something my character build allready has.

No, i believe that was aimed at me for writing cyber tits instead of the longer and seemingly more acceptable cyber breasts.

I guess I give up, then. If it's just 'lack of respect and gravity' in general, I'm done.

Yeah, I agree with you on most of that. However; invasive augmentations in general is not something that joe average will just do on the spur of the moment. Having your arms voluntarily cut off, putting a computer in your brain, ripping your face out and replacing it with a modular jigsaw-face, replacing your skin with dermal sheathing...all of those are extreme modifications that can lead us to question our identity. Shadowrun itself is a game of extremes; it deals with murder, kidnapping, human sacrifice, trafficing, lethal drugs, using children as drug-mules (european version of Ghost Cartels), turning people into mind controlled sex-puppets, mass-murder, racism, attempted genocide...it's all there. Replacing one's genitals for whatever reason - whether thought-through or in desperation; to make it easier to escape the law or play the 'sex' card in negotiation; or even being forced to in order to be competitive, is in my opinion a fairly small thing to discuss compared to the other general concepts of the game.

Even today, we have significant numbers of people of all genders willing to get implants, modifications, decorations, etc applied to their genitals. It's becoming more and more common, and with the supposed greater acceptance of non-standard sexual practices present in SR it will likely grow even more common. Neither I, nor most of the people I know (men, women and transgendered alike), think discussing the darker sides of sex is in any way worse than discussing the darker sides of crime and violence. I am aware, however, that most sexual issues are more taboo in american culture than issues of violence.

Then again, not only am I european--I am swedish...



I wouldn't say 'just as hard', as there are many factors to consider. Women certainly face discrimination on a more frequent basis - especially with the advent of the internet--people do horrible things under the guise of anonymity. That said, I have personally been subjected to everything from derogatory sexual remarks, off-hand sexual offers, groping, discrimination based on gender as well as genitals and sexual performance, coercion attempts to acquire nude pictures, coercion attempts for sexual acts, sexual blackmail, physical abuse, and even what would be legally constitued as rape - all by women, and in several cases groups of women. I have several male friends with similar experiences. Men very rarely talk about things like that, however. Partly because of fear of ridicule from other men, partly because many official instances operate under the same stereotypes that plague society in general, and partly because of fear of losing respect and masculinity in the eyes of women.

Yes, men in general do that sort of thing more than women in general - but it happens to men a lot more often than most people think, and when it does, the male victims are more likely to be disbelieved and ridiculed for it. Also, to the best of my knowledge, it is more common for women to ridicule/discriminate against men once they are in bed together, compared to men doing that to women.

But hey, men always want sex with any woman they can get, and can't be victims, right?

I actually kind of saw Cyberbreasts as an alternative to breast reduction surgery. My shadowrun group consists of mostly women, actually, and occasionally girltalk happens. One of our players has very large breasts. And I mean very large, past the GG's and into the realm of J, where back problem become an issue, where stores don't actually stock the size of bras she needs, and those that do often have them mislabeled due to american size issues and they are too small anyway. To the point where, frankly, they are kind of a hastle. It is something I've heard her talk about every once in a while. At the same time, they are hers, and they are important to her.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about all women, or even a majority, but I did want to share a personal experience of mine.




Actually, this came up in a thread a while ago. Score one for the german devs being more progressive than catalyst: These are apparently in the german augmentation book. Also there is a sidebar in augmentation about an implant by Evo that lets you do exactly what you're talking about. So its kind of already in the system, even if it isn't explicitly spelled out in plain sight.

In the interests of keeping a civil discussion, I'll let that one slide. Thanks for calling that out. If you're that offended, I can even edit the original post if you like.

Thought I'd sleep on this one before posting it. Sorry if the quotes are a page or two behind.

No no, not because of me . .
I was thinking about using Cars and Automobiles at first . .

I believe it is the "false front" package. I know I've wanted this out in some more detail. The idea of a face with a fragmented personality where literally every day they are a new person (or one of multiple personalities in their head). Original intent for the ware had practical applications (infiltration, impersonation) but over time something went horribly wrong and now they are a mess. The shadows are the only thing they know anymore as they cannot live a normal life. In game effect would have the ware change the body to match the personality of the current identity in control while also being unaware of this.

Though... I think trying to realistically roleplay something like that would be difficult.

Its not AS hard as you're making it seem, but its a lot of work making them a PERSON.

Our Face in a long-running campaign I'm in is an Adept built on the same principle - he has pretty much ALL of the look like other person powers. He operates kind of like mystique from x-men, except a lot more of a headcase. The trauma results more from an intense desire to fit in, growing up as a 'shapeshifter' and losing his childhood/innocence/himself/self-identity, and intentionally creating personalities and identities that he thinks will be successful - or for fun, to try something new, or even to recreate who he thought he was.
The personalities are kind of aware of each other, and he swaps between them depending the situation and the job. Its not so much a seperate personality thing, as each is a collection of traits and mannerisms and preferences that can all be brought to the fore.
Kind of like really really intense method acting that isn't really acting, but a way of being. It is to the point where people he's close to can kind of draw our or influence him to being one person or another.

There were some particularly funny/amusing scenes where he raised his magic, acquired Flexibility, and spent a while adjusting to being kind of like Mr. Fantastic.

The face is actually played by one of the women in our group, and is probably the most intensely social character I've seen in a game. His character sheet is one page. His contacts, lists of identies and sins(active and abandoned), backstory and history are -six-. That's the kind of detail that goes into a character like this.

Hope that helps.

Also, while it might be the False Front, I believe the german version actaully went out of its way to put a Cybernetic Vaginal implant right next to the Penile Implant, or more fully spell it out as being possible in some way. I haven't actually read the book, but I do recall it being a topic of discussion on dumpshock before.

It is a great concept, but the random change is very hard to actually play.

Even better, to go along with the various personalities, is to have different skillsets for each personality. I made a character concept like this once. I Play a slight variation of this currently, as a Mage character. He is fun to play, but he has full control of the change in features/personality (which I think is a must). Unfortunately, he/she does not have differing base skill sets for each personality, though it does have specialty skills I am purchasing for each personality. Character is a blast to play, though he is not all that powerful, mechanically (Magic of 3). Working on an Ally Spirit, now that I have finally found and joined a Group (Geee, that only took 280 Karma to accomplish)...

Many of you say something along those lines:



Now imagine a Cyber Peen would give an additional box on the physical condition monitor (come on, every limb does! Also, the kick to the groins thing wouln't work anymore) - and think again. Honestly.







..

You'd all get one.
At least one.

Both of those seem to fall into the category 'good reason'...

a kick in the groin would still work, they normally dont replace your balls in this treatment

One of the Ragdolls in DC "Had those removed for just such occasions", and despite that, still got a girlfriend!

EDIT: They never got to the stage where he had to explain it, however.

They can be enveloped by the implant, though. That'd soften the blow quite a bit.