Why not just install one in your penile implant?

Cause I only had room for 2 on my Cyberarm. Cybertorsos get cramped real quick, ya dig?

Boring, detailed explanation why FFBA/PPP aren't broken - potaytoe, potahtoe.

That doesn't make sense. 'Aren't broken' doesn't mean 'are just as bad as cyber/bio/magic', or let alone 'lets you skip the sacrifices of cyber/bio/magic'. If there was a small ray gun that let you do what Control Thoughts does, it wouldn't be 'not broken' because Control Thoughts can also do it.

Vaguely correct, except your counter-argument uses subjective measurements of power ("bad, broken..."). If you think 10/8 armor is broken... well then there's not much we can talk about. Sitting in some cars gives you 10/10 armor - without upgrades.

I don't think I said anything about 10/8, though. Vague and subjective are features, when the point is that 'relative to cyber/magic is irrelevant'.

Neraph's argument also seems to completely avoid consideration of the fact that magic/cyber characters can also wear FFBA.

And do.

Not exactly. My point is that since such numbers are possible without FFBA/PPP it is a moot point to get upset over such numbers with it. I mean, you can sit buck-nekkid in a Segway with a rigger cocoon and get 20 armor. If cyber/mages (or even worse - cyber-mages!) also wear FFBA/PPP, then so what? In many (if not most) cases, a cyber/mage using FFBA/PPP does so so they don't need to focus on the armor aspect of cyber/magic, thus increasing their flexibility. Not all cases are cybered mages wearing FFBA/PPP inside Horsemen of the Apocalypse, even though that is completely legal.

It's not a moot point. You can't walk around in a rigger cocoon in a discrete fashion, can you? The only reason why everyone in the world is not using FFBA is that it is relatively pricey for most security guards and gangers. For a runner there is no good reason.

Yeah, I still don't understand why every armor thread eventually mentions being *inside* a vehicle. If you're inside a vehicle, that's not 'your armor' we're even talking about at that point. But mostly, I don't get the 'everyone else is doing it' justification.

Yeah, the only reason everyone on the street isn't wearing it is simply cost/availability, and that some folks don't want concealed armor plates rubbing up against their junk.

Beyond that, FFBA is so good that there's no reason not to have it.

And that is why it is broken, and not just "good." Wired Reflexes is good. But there are equally good or better alternatives. Also, if it is that good and is supposed to be ubiquitous why wasn't it in the core rulebook in the first place?


I believe FFBA is described as downright comfy too.. or not far from it.

Because it wasn't as signature an item for the Shadowrun universe ...?

When deciding what would or wouldn't go into the SR4A core book, space was the primary consideration. Since FFBA had in prior editions been an item for supplements, it just isn't iconic enough to bump out something else from the core book.

Honestly, if there's a problem with FFBA, it's not that it exists. It's that the ratings are IMO a bit high. I think the ballistic part should be reduced; the ratings should be +2/+0, +3/+1, and +4/+2 rather than the +3/+0, +4/+1, and +6/+2 that we presently have. In fact, I seem to recall those being the values for FFBA from prior editions ...

I seem to recall them being viewed as unbalanced in SR3 too. If it is not iconic then it should not be so good that everyone would want it. It's be like having S&S being an arsenal ammo only - S&S isn't iconic either, even if it's in the main book.

Reducing the values help somewhat, but a better fix is either to not let it stack with other armor, or that it stacks but restricts as normal. Even with your slight nerf an armor jacket + full FFBA is still better than a single suit of heavy security armor. Not only that, it also has lower availability, is legal, and has less price. This makes no sense. If it is really the supposed SOTA super armor coming to the markets, it should have much higher avail, cost several thousand more (easily worth 10k for a suit). If it is old news (which it is, the technology is at least 10 years old), it should be already incorporated into the many forms of armor out there, especially stuff like full security armor.

Yeah, FFBA not stacking is one of my oldest and most necessary house rules, simply because of the extreme escalation it causes.