QUOTE (FriendoftheDork @ Apr 16 2012, 04:59 PM)
What the hell just happened? Everyone started agreeing! Noooo! Keep the rant up! Somebody post something ridiculously wrong, before this thread falls into obscurity!
Edit: Oh and I have worn a bulletproof vest for extended periods. It was damn sweaty and no one in their right mind would unless their lives depended on it. But as it says in the book:
"(...)monofilament ballistic fabrics, spiderweave threads, ceramictitanium
composite plates, and liquid armor packs to cover non-rigid
areas, modern armor is lightweight, flexible, and concealable."
This gives the impression that armor in 2070 is quite different from our own, and that there is no reason not to wear it every day, especially stuff like armored clothing. I'll bet a Lined Coat isn't too bad either, especially in chilly wet Seattle weather. And an armored jacket? Well it's kinda obvious, but probably not too bad for gangers and rentacops either.
I have too. From the sounds of things the vest in the SR core book looks like it aligns more with a class 1 vest.
I'm not sure what kind of vest you've experienced but I've worn Class I, III, and IV body armor. Technically IV+ because of the extra bullshit that comes with it and they make you throw on (PPP?).
Anyway, the Class I was downright comfy. Like an under the shirt velcro hug all day. Hell, up here in the "beautiful" North West, it was extra comfy because it helped with the damned rain and cold.
Class IV is a modern vest with extremely heavy plates, not concealable as it is very thick. The 4+ I talked about was adding a bunch of bullshit extra kevlar (read: stuff that wont even slow down combat grade bullets). That Class 4 plate is intended to stop Armor Piercing rounds from a 7.62 (I say roundS, but the first one likely breaks the plate. You get the point).
So the Class I vest of today, light weight and very concealable, lines up with Armored Vest (6 "future" ballistic armor rating stopping "future" light pistol grade ammunition).
Class IV vests don't really have any parallel in Shadowrun.
I rambled a bit. 2 points:
1. I think the Armor Vest (concealable, stops 2072 light pistol ammunition) is a perfect correlation to modern Class I vests. Bullets are better, armor is better, stalemate there. My experiences with it were great. Very thin, very concealable, not very heavy. Wore it in heat and cold. Cold was very pleasant and the worst problem I had in the heat had more to do with stink than physical discomfort.
2. Nothing we have today is going to line up at all to what is available in 2072. Modern body armor is a huge problem as combating modern firearms require more of the material than we're capable of wearing. The plates themselves are simply a stop-gap method.
oh, and also that I agree with your point that most of the stuff is probably comfortable enough to wear wherever, in case that wasn't clear. Hell the Auctioneer Business Suit and like 6 pages of Arsenal are dedicated to some pretty high armor value clothing that is designed for daily use.
Moreover, I think those "armored clothing" listings say a lot about the general culture of Shadowrun. I honestly don't think anyone would be "scared of" someone who chose to wear his armored vest in a plainly visible fashion, they would think him low class and potentially very rude. These are designer companies
who have dedicated entire lines of fashion
to stopping bullets. You think the average passerby doesn't know that Steampunk corset is armored? Personal protection is a pervading theme in Shadowrun.
... I'm not saying that Full Military armor wont get noticed, just that smaller measures to protect from reasonable force (handguns, muggings, go gangers) is likely entirely OK to be seen with in public.
Yes, AFAIK the fluff says 'it's not heavy, hot, and annoying'. That's what Encumbrance is for, more or less, and SR4 doesn't track things like 'annoying' or 'heavy'.
Shadowrun kind of tracks 'heavy.' It has lifting and encumberance rules, they just don't matter for 99% of situations and none of the gear has any weight attached to it. How the hell am I supposed to know what a 2072 'space aged martian brain polymer' assault rifle weighs?
I do think that it is kind of funny that you could make a character with a high body and 1 strength, and be capable of wearing Military Grade armor but not lifting it. Thats what that STR+BOD for encumbrance rather than BODx2 rule is for if you feel the need to change it.
I've given serious thought to more detailed weight and encumbrance rules ala old editions of dungeon crawler games, then I remembered that it is usually something that no one wants to pay attention to or bother with anyway. Even the most detailed system usually boils down to, "Is it conceivable that you could carry all that you've got on you right now?" "Yes," "Then fuck it," while in actual play.
It is one of those cases that a system without it can be "weird" or "kinda broken" but be better off for practical play reasons anyway. My opinion at least.