@Falconer
I dislike it personally because it opens the door to a lot of strange stuff. If I tape a commlink at my bike, does it get an increased object resistance.
I just think you should just apply the object resistance of the object which gets enchanted.


Well, it simply makes invisibility useless with less than 4 or 5 hits.

And I dislike pushing anything that high to be usefull...

I agree, but I assume that was exactly the point why they increased the ORs form SR4 to SR4A.

Unfortunately drones are more effective at disbelieving illusions:
I doubt you can disconnect the camera from the drone (which should be a technological system) for the purpose of magic.

I don't think force 5 is all that far outside the envelope. One it requires a sustaining focus of higher than starting grade if going that way. Two. you're going to need a reasonably good dice pool 12-15 dice and probably 1-3 castings to get it that high. The drain code isn't all that high at only +1... most mages handwave away 3 drain. So casting it multiple times is only an imposition in terms of time.


OR7+ on the other hand starts to get really taxing.

Remember the chart says OR5+ (meaning it can go higher at the GM's whim, especially if you're dealing with some kind of nova hot whiz prototech).

Then there's redundant process manufacturing as well.

Look in the other thread where I pointed out that levitate can stack an OR on top of another threshold... Try to lift a combat bike at OR5... plus what 3 more to lift half a ton?!... that's all before even getting more net successes to actually be able to move the thing. (you roll 7 exact I'd say ok... you caught the bike and stopped it from splattering into the ground... but you're not moving it... except maybe to gently lower it to the ground).

Putting a camera onto an RC car makes the camera more effective?
(Remember: that OR threshold is still used when there's a rigger rigging it!)

A dinosaur's input here:

I'd guess that 3 vs 5 was due to the sensor suite on a drone system.
As something that has to interact with the world, an effective drone (or whatever) wouldn't be limited to a simple camera setup, but redundant laser/radar rangefinders linked with machine vision.
The other thresholds might have been errata'd in to make gameplay less taxing, but it makes reasonable sense and also makes drones a lot more unnerving (and a logical purpose for a security-minded company)

OR 3 = Joe Schlub munching on a cruller and missing the improved invis team as they grimly run past the hidden security cameras. (Also great for storytelling)
OR 5 = That mean looking security drone that's scanning your area.

Additional fun, like ultrasound, isn't really Improved Invis, it's Silence or some bastardized "Look, I've got awesome skillz and a spell that could possibly fake out the system if I roll enough successes and manage to sweet-talk the GM - oh, I shouldn't have said that out loud" spell setup.

-Tir.


PS:
Oh, and we've always played Unconcious = Sustained Spell down, unless said spell is anchored or sustained by a foci for such.
Think of magic as a series of tubes, the mage can't suck the magic out of the tube if they're unconcious, but if they've set up a pump and turned the damn thing on, well, there you go.


PPS:
I just love being able to use the "series of tubes" analogy.

Awesome...

Awesome, thats pretty much what i was looking for. Thank you!

How attentive the viewer of the camera feed is, has no bearing on the OR. If the spell beats the camera's OR, the character under the spell is not recorded, so he cannot be seen on screen.

I honestly think that IF the drone is ONLY using the camera, then yes it's OR3.

But most vehicles, including drones, have a suite of other sensors besides just the camera. Collectively, I can see that bumping the OR to 5+, to match the rest of the drone.




-k

My view is: Invisibility defeats only cameras. Therefor, only cameras matter.

If the drone (etc) has motion detectors, ultrasound sensors, UWB radar, etc? Then Invisibility automatically fails against those sensors.

So, teh drone will know something is there ... something that does not show up on visual sensors. What would most security riggers script their drones to assume, in the Sixth World? "INVISIBLE MAGE DETECTED", that's what.

...

IOW, in a drone or on the wall, OR3 is all the spell has to beat. Because, beat the camera or not ... you don't beat the motion detector, Ultrasound scanner, or other non-camera sensors no matter how well you roll.

Indeed...

See, now here is where we start to run the grounds of possible metagaming. How does the mage know he didnt get enough hits to not be seen by the camera? When he is casting his spell does he have a OR5 camera watching him, displaying on a monitor so that he can keep trying until he poofs?

I was just thinking that and I'd allow it with a Called Shot.

The mage knows, if his spell is successful by RAW. There can be a debate whether he knows how successful it is. Even if he does not know, getting a camera with heightened OR (forgot how the mod was called) to test the effectiveness can't be that difficult.

I agree that the mage knows if his spell worked, but i would say not how well. Because if you think about it, 4 hits is enough to stop your average Joe from seeing you, more then enough in fact. But it adds another layer and more time to test it vs cameras etc. not that it cant be done, just something to think on.

And in this train of thought, if i had a rating 6 camera in my goggles and image link, i guess that would work to see most mages then, ya?

Rating has nothing to do with OR. Rating only limits the number of enhancements (like low light, magnification etc.) the camera can take.

Vykos:
The same rules allow a mage to apply any and all net successes on a direct combat spell to stage up damage as he sees fit. I think it's just part of the game... a mage knows how successfully he cast a spell. (here's one you might not even realize... force limits the usable successes, not the number of successes).

In fact, under spellcasting... "The spellcaster can ALWAYS choose to use less than the total number of hits rolled in the spellcasting test". How's the mage supposed to do this if he doesn't know how many he rolled or how successful he was?

So no I don't find it all that metagamey....


Then toss in a BGC... the mage could walk through a clean area into a slightly nastier one and suddenly pop up on camera without realizing it.

Anyhow, as a general rule I tend to make things harder for mages.. because magic is just so useful. That and I'm most familiar with them generally (I always pick last and always seem to end up with 'magical support' roles). It also makes other players feel less hostile towards the mage I find... when you don't allow the mage to play in easy mode. (which is what I feel OR3 only is).