Well, first of all,



We're looking at 24 of these babies, not 12. And each of them is firing 20 rounds per pass, per the rules for suppresive fire. Secondly, muzzle velocity times bullet weight gets you bullet momentum, not force. To get force, you need to account for both bullet and gas momentum. The mass of expelled gasses is the same as your powder charge (or close enough) and is travelling at around half again the speed of the bullet. (Which is a very rough estimate. Call it between 125% and 175% of bullet speed.) Furthermore, bullet weights and charge weights aren't given in grams, but grains. Giving us about 4.1 gram bullets, and a 1.5 gram charge. So, total momentum absorbed by Dr. Dakka per pass is roughly 24*20*(900m/s)*(0.0041kg+1.5*0.0015kg) or 2743.2 m kg/s. Assuming a pass is one second, that's 2743 Newtons. Which, divided by mass, gives us 2743N/490kg = 5.6 m/s^2.

However, that ignores friction. It's a great result for the dude on rollerblades, but I was assuming the troll was nonsuicidal, and hence a reluctant participant. That knocks mu*weight off the force. For wet pavement+runflats, mu=0.3. Weight = 490kg*9.81m/s^2, so friction resistance = (490 kg)*(9.81m/s^2)*0.3 = 1440N. So net backward force = 2743N-1440N=1300N. Divide that by 490 kg, and you get 2.65m/s^2. Note that that's an acceleration rate. So he'll be going only 2.65 m/s after 1 s, 5.3m/s after 2s, etc.

well, counterattack power can help handle some of the axe problem, but still, 40 armor doesn't matter against something that ignores it.

No problem, the troll is deaf from all that shooting so he takes no damage.

Not exactly sure what you are talking here, becuase I have killed many a troll with a LIGHT pistol. *shrug*

Honestly, I wouldn't have any more problem with a troll dual-wielding assault rifles than I would with a human dual-wielding submachineguns. A troll with dual LMGs or battle rifles would be like a human with dual ARs - silly, but not out of the upper peaks of Trollish stature and stance, just like one can reasonably imagine a bulky enough, cybered enough human dual-wielding assault rifles.


Any more than that would be kind of... Silly, though. Still, if you have split your dice pool four or six ways, you're not gonna be shooting very accurately. So you'd be great at providing suppressive fire (I'd say that for each gun you're using to suppress the same place, anyone who eats fire takes damage from each gun,) but it wouldn't be a very good way to killdeath murderbone someone particular, since he'd be highly likely to dodge them.

Not to mention that you'd eat up your earnings for the run in about 3 seconds of sustained fire.

Have you done it with ONE shot?

I did a quick.. reletivily quick. try out of wether my gunslinger adept could take down the tank troll at 40 armor. after using diff ammo turned out that SnS took about 3 IP and 6 shots to fully knock him out. the bastard had nonconductivity lol. the EX-Explosive were nearly useless. with me doing 1-2 damage per shot on average (many shots were nulled completely). the assualt rifle was doing about the same with 1-3 damage. depending. (over half the attacks were resisted to 0 or below 0 damage on all the weps excluding the broken SnS ammo.) for the SnS ammo I added the hits to the DV although I hear some people don't. so no, you dont one shot a troll tank lol

so you're lookign at 31 dice for resist with SnS yes? Might be tempted to run a few dice through chummer see how well my Sniper would take down the troll

[quote name='Dolanar' date='Oct 19 2012, 05:16 PM' post='1188474']
so you're lookign at 31 dice for resist with SnS yes? Might be tempted to run a few dice through chummer see how well my Sniper would take down the troll
[/quote/]

dont forget the CM of 16 stun damage. or was it 17, the one I worked with during my tests had 16, but his may have had 17

took me 2 IP's to take him down with some decent rolls on his part & some low ones on my part, 3 shots to take him down to 21 stun , (mind you ideally he'd have no idea where the shots were coming from)

SnS is 6s right?

Couple of times, yes. Sometimes it took a Double Tap. Happens with Trolls.
That said, we do not normally see trolls with 40 Armor, either. That's just ludicrous. *shrug*

ok to dampen the SnS ammo. the troll now has a total of 12-15 bonus die for resisting electrical damage :3

once again, at that point...Sonic Elemental fist monkey, of course, if you design something around 1 function & only 1 function he'll be a useless runner for most of everything else.

sonic ele fist ork face. love him!. but this guy was meant as the tank that took out people and protected the other guys when drek hit the fan... worked well too, specially when the mage was covereing him from magics.

Exactly, but was that in SR3 or 4? I have a hard time seeing a runner take out someone with 2 shots from a light pistol when they have about 40+ dice resist.

I couldnt take him out in 3 shots from my warhawk. (suped up to) hurt him a but, but no physical damage. easiest way was SnS but if he gets alot of noncunductivity armor mods its just that much harder.

And that is what I like about SR3, it is deadlier.

If you'd get 4 sucesses with your warhawk in SR3 you go from base damage of 10M to 10D with Ex-Ex it is 12D. If my troll has 8 armor it is resistance on 4+ and unless I get at least 2 successes i take 10 damage and falls unconscious.

In SR4 the troll would take 9 damage with no successes and most likely have more hitpoints since his Body affects that value - but I'm pretty sure he would have more dice for the resist roll.

Mind you though, being able to get 40 Armor is a Major investment in stats, nuyen, & concept. Its a loophole in the rules, that someone is taking advantage of, close the loophole at your table, the 40armor troll is impossible & everything becomes more deadly once again.

thats the thing. his char. is, by the rules. completely fine. guess you could say no restricted gear. or no staking armor but :/

Keep in mind that Tymeaus is a strong proponent of the "Dice pools should be in the low double digits at most" theory of SR gaming.

Also note that he did not say "Every troll" or even "the 40 armor troll" he said "Some trolls." I suspect he's not talking about overly engineered concepts on either side of the equation. He's talking about a troll that spent 2-3 points in Bod, got a lined coat, and maybe has some cyberarmor against a guy with 12 dice pool shooting a light pistol with a smart link or the like.

SR4... You cannot kill a Snail with a Light Pistol in SR3. At least in my experience.
I have NEVER seen a target in SR4 with 40+ dice to resist. Why? Because that is ludicrous. *shrug*

Pretty much, Yeah. Starting characters in our games tend to fall in the 10-14 DP range for specialties. Upper end Characters approach the 18-20 limit (My cyberlogician can hit 20 in Perception Pools and 18-20 in Firearms pools with Tacnets active - 350 Karma in). My Ninja runs with 12 Dice in all attack pools.

Toughest troll my characters have encountered was just at 26 Dice to resist most things (10 Body and 16 Armor). A Light Pistol with APDS will take him down (Resists at 22 Dice due to APDS) with some good shots. Also, a Light pistol loaded with a Capsule round and DMSO/Toxins works just fine too (My Personal Choice).

There is not a dearth of Milspec Armor in our game (it does exist, and we have encountered it from time to time, in the appropriate locations/places), and most people do not walk around looking like tanks. It tends to draw attention. This applies to both PC's and NPC's. Typical Armor levels in game are about 10-12 points, mostly discrete. On high end runs, where we expect high end opposition with milspec armor, we tend to go with armors of that equivalent (some of the characters actually have milspec suits for just such occasions). My charactres tend to run with 5-8 on the low end, to 12 or so on the high end. What can I say, I like Body 3-4, and most of my characters are Human, with the odd Ork or Troll thrown in for a little variety. My Oni Ninja ran with 11/11 Armor and a Body of 5 (he was small for his race). *shrug*

you would hate me lol. as I love to be in the 18s-22s for balistic armor :3 just want that extra chance that my char MAY survivie a bullet (or few) the the chest lol.

Heh...No worries. Survival is good. I tend to go the route that it is easier to survive if you do not actually have to soak damage.

Just use a FA modded Aztechnology Itzcóatl Gauss Cannon ^^

Using contact-triggered fragmentation grenades and a FA grenade launcher (eg. ITS Gonryu) with a full narrow burst, one does hit with 88P +5 AP (p. 140, WAR - Overlapping Grenade Blasts & Grenade Launchers and Targeting)
Or just hit it with an Anti-Tank howitzer Shell (p. 176, WAR)

wouldnt contact triggered grenades be triggered by the force of the of them leaving the launcher?

Not in my experience. They do not arm until they have travelled 10 Meters. At least IRL.

ah well then lol. so now all my chars will use only BF grenade launchers lol. GG KE sec. lol

Dude, you've been playing too much Miracle Shooter™. That game rots your brains.

yes... yes it does :/

Miracle Shooter is a great tool by Ares. It paints your opposition as Lone Star uniformed pigs (literally anthropomorphic pigs,) and your teamies in Knight Errant gear.

The hope being that all those damn video-game playing maniacs will play Miracle Shooter and then go shoot up Lone Star cops, but will hesitate hopefully before shooting real Knight Errant.



(I totally just made that up, BTW.)