Hi, I'm new to SR and looking for stats for a thin blade concealed in a staff. My character is a bit of a pacifist, and I want the staff to be his foci. The staff would be slightly rectangular, all wood and probably around 1.5 metres in length. The sword would be around 1 metre long with a thin, straight blade and no hilt, because the hilt is part of the staff and blends in.

Can anybody provide me with stats?

Another question: If the staff is a foci or bonded weapon, will both parts of the staff (staff itself and the sword) count as foci if they are seperated?

Also, what would damage would jabbing someone with the tip of a sword scabbard do?

Make it a spear, Conceal N/A, Damage (Str+4) L, Reach 2, and be done with it.

1) welcome!!

2)same stats as a sword, I would assume. Conceal 8 or better for detecting its a sword-cane.

3) (Str)M Stun? maybe (str+1)M Stun?

Are you making the "Blind Fury" guy?

I'd only give (Str + 1) L for poking someone with a scabbard. Yes, it's metal/wood, but you're _poking_ them. That requires some serious talent to do damage.

If you look in Cannon Companion, you'll find the gun cane has a concealability of 9 (to detect that it's anything more than a cane). A sword staff would probably have comparable concealability stats, except that the actual cane has a conc. of 2 and i doubt you could hide a staff (non-telescoping) anyplace.

Wacking someone with the staff would do (str+2)M stun and getting stabby with the sword would do (str+2)M physical, although for a rapier, i'd probably say (str+1) or just (str)M.

For the staff/sword: How much handle would it have? Exactly how thin and light do you want it to be? It could be just a "Sword", or it could even be a Claymore, or if it's of extremely good workmanship it might count as "Katana" *shudder*. With your description I'd go with Sword if you want it to be a one-handed weapon.

A Sword in Shadowrun has these stats: Concealability 4, Reach 1, (STR + 2)M, Weight 1kg, Availability 3/24hrs, Cost 500 , Street Index 1, Legality 4-B. Check SR3 p. 275.

I'd say you'd have to make the sword the focus. Then when you've got it all together as the staff, you're still holding the sword as well. If you want a Weapon Focus, you'd have to decide whether you want the staff or the sword -- if you had the sword as a Weapon Focus, the staff would not count as one, at least not while I'd be GMing.

If this is a completely rigid, hard scabbard, use the stats of a club. (STR + 1)M Stun.

I think there's a sword-cane in the Cannon Companion. The stats should work.

Jabbing with a sword-scabbard is much like jabbing with any other improvised club.

Now, that taken care of;
Um, why does a pacifist make a point of carrying a concealed sword?
Heck, even a staff is a big weapon to cart around.

sword = large device for chopping people into bits.
staff = large device for smashing people into pulp.
pacifist = Somebody who doesn't like people hurting other people, i.e. not turning people into bits/pulp.

May I suggest a taser, shock wand, shock gloves, sap, narcojet, or Drug-a-Thug (basically a melee narcojet)?
---------
I'm not saying anything about you personally - I just find it funny how many pacifists in SR are such nasty monsters in combat.

As far as RL and logic is concerned, Backgammon is absolutely right. Rules do say otherwise, however. The Pacifist-flaw is described so that someone with it can kill someone in self defense and not feel too bad about it. It might be really silly, but that's how it's written.

The Total Pacifist is really what the RL word "pacifist" refers to. The Pacifist flaw is simply someone somewhat pincipled.

While you are right with that, you are not right by the Shadowrun flaw.

There are two different flaws in Shadowrun for pacifism.

Pacifist (2 points) - Character never kills, save in self-defense. (ie: won't do wetwork)

Total Pacifist (5 points) - Character cannot kill any living being. If he does so, he suffers depression for 2d6 weeks.

T.P. -> like Batman (on the depression and not killing thing)

I would make it into a Stacked foci as by MiTS page 44.
Never thourght about combining two weapon foci before but.... everything got to have a first.

In general I like the idea, and would probaly rule that, when you have drawn the sword, you got two foci with a combined rating equal to the stacked foci.

While not fitting the rules of stacked foci completely (not being one all the time), I would probaly rule that the two parts can only be apart a number of days equal to the rating of the stacked foci, thereafter they loose one point of rating, any additional extension of the period equal to the new rating would mean an additional loose of rating ...... This might give the GM some "fun" plot lines to compensate for the twisting of the Stacked foci rules.

But as a note I would probaly only rule a combination of either rapier/Club or sword/Club possible, and not a telescoping staff.

Does Batman still get depressed if Van Helsing kills the moon on which Batman is riding?

p.s. My apologies to anyone who doesn't get this reference.
p.p.s. Come to think of it, my apologies to everyone else, as well.

I'm quite surprised people are suggesting that a staff should be (Str)L or (Str+1)L. Come on. If it's (Str)L, why don't you just punch for (Str)M?

(Str+1)M, at least. Maybe +2.

Of course, hand to hand should be base L, but that's another matter entirely.

SR3 already gives (STR + 2)M Stun for a Staff.

The (STR + 1)L Stun was for poking with the scabbard. Which is about right, because no sane human being would poke someone with a scabbard instead of beating them barehanded. Wacking someone with the scabbard, however, could be equated to an improvised Club, as was mentioned, thus (STR + 1)M Stun.

And yes, that's another matter entirely, and one which should probably be polled about so that it gets changed in a few years when SR4 comes out.

Eh. One can have strong issues with unnecessary bloodshed but still be willing to kill. Though staff swords, in the traditional sense, were only intended to visually hide the swords after they were made illegal after the Bakufu period by the new emperor, Meiji.

Just because he carries an interesting weapon, that doesn't mean he has to be particularly good at using it. Especially if he's using it as a family heirloom that's functioning as a focus for his magic. That's just a decent characteristic to play off of.

In any case, I came up with a little house rule for handing weapons like this. Basically, I just use the Customization rules for "Secondary Weapon" in the Firearm Creation Rules of Cannon Companion. Basically, 2,250 nuyen plus the cost of the base weapons gets you the customization work you need to have a melee weapon converted to a Stun Baton-style one that does 6M Stun. If you want some other effect, you pay the 2,250 nuyen twice plus the base cost of both weapons and combine their effects, as long as the combination makes sense. You then use the core Concealability for the main weapon and add +4 to the Concealability of the secondary weapon.

So for a staff-sword, you just need to pick the two base weapons. In this case, a standard Bo Staff (50 nuyen) plus a now-retractable spear tip (200 nuyen). The cost is 4,750 nuyen and it does (STR+3)M Stun damage as a staff. When the "sword"-tip is projected, it does (STR+4) Physical. Concealability is 2 for the weapon itself and 6 to detect the sword-tip.

That's how I typically handle it at least.

They could just be making the assumption that a staff is just a long club, while a bo staff is a wooden staff that's been hardened through flame or bracing or some such.

Just switch the Damage Codes around then and write it off as errata.

I like the "folded a million times" thing. Aren't all Asian weapons made that way?

Totally. Especially the bo-staves and most other weapons made out of wood.

Sorry for the delayed post, but i was temporarily indesposed. ANYhoo...
Backgammon said:

Wait a minute, you guys are off.

Staff: 50 nuyen, 3/24 hours, SI 1.
Bo Staff: 50 nuyen, 4/48 hours, SI 1.

The only difference is the Bo Staff has +1 Power and is harder to get. That fits in well with the hardening theory. Especially since a staff is described as a "big stick" while a bo staff is described as a "hard, straight piece of wood."

Regarding Pacifism vs. Total Pacificism, Pacifism is just the dude who says "hey man, I think we can figure out a way to get in there without killing the guard." The Total Pacifist is Ghandi or the Dalia Lama.

Ah, the paranoid pacifist with a grenade launcher...
"It's for self-defense, they're all after me."

"I don't want to hurt you, but i will."

That's what I was basically stating. A staff is just a glorified club, while a bo staff is a true weapon.

I vote for treating the sword as a Sword ((Str+2)M Physical, Reach 1) and the assembled staff as a Staff ((Str+2)M Stun, Reach 2). If the hilt is long enough, you could wield the sword two-handed and do (Str+3)M, like a bastard sword (of Japanese make or no). Or you could use the scabbard portion alone as a Club ((Str+1)M Stun, Reach 1).

I also vote for repeated stabbings of whoever assigned the Bo Staff's damage code.

I don't quite understand the angst over the damage code. It's the same difference between a blase' Sword and a technologically enhanced Ares Monosword... a whole +1 Power in exchange for a weapon that's been enhanced to be a better weapon.

The only thing wrong with the stats is that the Bo Staff doesn't have a mild price hike over the Staff. Making it simply 100 nuyen instead of 50 would be completely appropriate.

Actually, something like 50 as opposed to a normal staff being 25 would make more sense. In any case, I have to agree. You'll be hard pressed to find a more willing person to rip out canon's still beating, blackened heart and rewrite it, but I don't see an issue with the +1 power. It's not a big deal as it is.

Er, yeah, I was asking for a staff-sword where the sword can break away from the staff portion. I think someone already mentioned the japanese walking stick swords that were made for concealability, it's something like that, only with a shorter staff and sword blade.

Stabbings can be educational, but stabbing won't educate a person about the proper damage codes of blunt weapons.

That still doesn't explain to me why this +1 power is such a massive fucking big deal. I mean, that is the only difference, right?

Take a look at the movie Blind Fury Rutger Hauer uses a walking stick that hides a katana type sword. Not hte best movie but he still kicks ass....and he's blind.