It is indeed... Unfortunately, though the character started out with 6 Edge, I had to move it back as I expanded his skill selection. Not a problem as far as I was concerned, as I rarely have a Human character with higher than 2-3 Edge anyways. *shrug*

Didn't CanRay have a mundane, unaugmented (or mostly unaugmented) character that had 8 edge?

Luck-monkeys can be fun, in their own right.

Indeed they can. We have one in our group...
Though he often spends Edge to Look Cool (pile up even MORE successes), even if he had already succeeded at his task prior to the Edge Expenditure.

So, i created one using karmagen.

Human with all 3s [200K] except Edge 6 [90K]
Positive Qualities: Restricted Gear*2, Biocompatibility (Cyberware), Born Rich, First Impression [70K]
Negative Qualities: In Debt (30000), SINer (Standard) [-70K]
Ressources: 300.000nY [120K]
Augmentations:
Basic Bioware: (all used)
Suprathyroid Gland
Synthacardium R3
Muscle Toner R2
Muscle Augmentation R2
Tailored Pheromones R3
Enhanced Phermone Receptors R3
Cultured Bioware:
Mnemonic Enhancer R2
Cerebral Booster R2
Cyberware:
Control Rig (used alpha)
Attention Coprocessor 3 (used)
Move-by-Wire System Rating 2 (used alpha)
Left obvious Lower Leg (used) w/
-Nanohive 2
-Commlink
-Datajack
-Body Enhancement 1
-Strength Enhancement 3
-Agility Enhancement 3
Genetech:
PuSHeD
Dynomitan
Nanotech:
Limbic Nanites R3
Neocortical Nanites R3

25.900 nY left for other gear, 220 Karma left for (Knowledge) Skills, Contacts, higher stats
Stats:
BOD 3(4)
AGI 3(6)
STR 3(6)
REA 3(
CHA 3
INT 3
LOG 3(5)
WIL 3
EDG 6
ESS 0,075
INIT 11
IP 3

+4 for all LOG-linked (+1 in stress)*
+4 for all INT-linked (+1 in stress)*
+3 for athlethics
+7 for all social tests in person
+3 for perception (+6 for smell)
+3 for all memory/knowledge/language skill tests

*fixed by a Focus Reality Amplifier

And yet there are no Skills listed here.
The goal is to have as many skills as possible, with Augm,entation assistance.
If you only take Rank 1 Active Skills Skills (in Karma Gen), you have 55 SKills (220 Karma, no Knowledge Skills, no contacts, no further stat increases), but I am pretty sure you want additional SKill Levels over 1 for a lot of things. *shrug*

Good Start, though.

Well he have skillwires and a datajack.
Chipped for any situation!

Cerebral Booster is Cultured Bioware. And therefor, is not available Used.

If i take every non-magical, non technomancer skill group at 1, and every non-exotic (incl. pilot anthroform and pilot spacecraft) active skill at 1, i am at 34K left for Knowledge Skills and Contacts. But because the MBW2 functions as a skillwire R4, this is not neccessary, instead one should invest in a Warez Group Contact to pirate Activesofts in Game.

I would go with 2 in Firearms, Close Combat, Stealth, Influence, Electronics, Cracking, Perception and 1 in Athletics, Biotech, Mechanics, Intimidate, Demolitions and Chemisty. And 50K left for Contacts and Knowledge Skills.

Nuff said ^^

You mgiht want to re-examine the order of entries up there, because here's the problem:



Note how the Cerebral Booster is not only above the "cultured Bioware" line, but is in fact above the Enhanced Pheromone Receptors ...?

Also, I've plugged everythign into HeroLab to check the numbers, and the Nuyen isn't adding up the way you describe. Before putting in the commlink (you ddn't specify what kind), I'm already seeing 286,450¥ spent, leaving 13,550¥ potentially available .... just over half the 25K¥ you posted, above.

So, it's a good start, but needs a lot of refinement and tweaking before it can be declared somethign that would lead to a viable, legal build.

Yep, not bad... So same number of skills with similar DP's for most skills. *shrug*

Dammit XD. I used DKs calculator, so it was calculated right, but i sorted it after copy-pasting it. I switched Cerebral Booster and Tailored Pheromones.

I'll gladly share the .POR of the above, by the by, for anyone who wants.

And it's definitely an intriguing concept - "the Ultimate Skillwired Man", if you will.

Oh, yes, that switch would definitely do it - and account for the nuyen and essence discrepancy. Dang.

Sadly, Enhanced Articulation and Reaction Enhancers had to be thrown out nuyen and essence wise.

Mind you, for an actual character, I think I would back off on some of those implants - start out somewhat augmented (the MBW, perhaps), and slowly work my way towards your implant list, piece by piece. You'd be able to go for less used stuff, and better-grade stuff, maybe even betaware.

I would go the other way round and gradually replace the used stuff with new ware. Also, you dont lose as much when you sell used cyber/bioware. (Bought for 50%, sold for 30% afterwards).

30% of the 50%.

Swiss knife, Toolbox, Jack O'Trades, Gizmo, Skillex, Skill slot, Guyver McWire, Handyman...
Take your pick

Which is kinda stupid, because if you can sell (former standard) ware that was in your body (now used) for 30% of its original cost, why can't i sell ware i already bought used for 30%? Or do i have to sell my former standard ware for 15%, because it is now used?

Second-hand is one thing. Third-hand is another matter altogether. Means it has even more mileage on it, and so on.

Sure, but who knows? I do not expect to really get "second-hand" ware when i buy it from tamanous, more like third to forth hand ...

Well, i let my players sell their used ware for 30% of the non-used price.

Indeed...

Relevant to the original question of the mechanical implications. I know someone else posted a partial list, but I don't know if anyone did a full breakdown.

Attribute increases by cost (BP)



Though it's slightly more expensive, metatypes are your best bet for increasing attributes permanently for a mundane. And going the magic route isn't actually very efficient. A mundane on drugs however, can compete pretty well if they have time to prepare (and don't mind addiction, and why would you? you weren't using that edge for anything any way right?). You can get your reaction and initiative passes fairly easily that way. With snuff and psyche you can use them freely without too much fear of side-effects. Improving attributes through qualities is just a bad idea.

Skill costs in BP


Improving skills through augments and magic is cheaper, but not overpoweringly so. It's about half rather than being 1/4-1/5. A mundane can compete if they use specializations (which I don't believe are allowed with skill wires). Qualities are not nearly so bad for improving skills cost wise, but still not great. Betel for the quick boost to perception is super cheap. The biggest place mundanes suffer is in social skills which both augments and magic have ways to boost heavily, but empathy software closes that gap quickly.

It would also be interesting to see an analysis of the armor and pain tolerance cost for a mundane vs. an augmented/magic character. My sense is that with so much relatively cheap gear boosting it, that you don't actually lag very far behind on those fronts.

But are you installing the ware in the new recipient? The middle man has to get his cut and it's always bigger than yours. I would probably allow 30% of the original if the team had a medic character that could install it and the facilities to do so. It's like selling a car on craigslist vs. to a used car dealer.

Well, they have 2 characters skilled in medicine and one hacker/rigger with skillwires, and a medical shop costs only 10.000nY. So yes, they can do it.

More like, "why are there tooth marks on my cyber-eye ...? Wait, no, on second thought, I don't need to know that ..."

It is inded worth noting that the character I have been referencing uses a lot of Specializations. But that is typical of my builds anyway.

Since no one else has thrown out a mundane for comparison, I might as well. Built in karmagen (to compare fairly

I present Vance Strongarm Mundane Generalist

Elf (30 karma) (because as a mundane raising agility is the most useful skills and combat wise thing to do and one of the hardest)

Attributes (234 karma)
Bod 3
Agi 6
Rea 4
Str 3
Cha 5
Int 4
Log 5
Wil 4
Edg 3
Ess 6 (not for long)

Qualities (60 karma back)
Allergy to Ware (common, severe) (which explains why Vance here doesn't aug up)
Addiction (Mild) Betel
Addiction (Mild) Snuff

'Ware:
None

Active Skills (368 karma)
16 at rank 2 (with specializations)
28 at rank 1 (with specializations)
7 at rank 1 (without specialization)

Gear: (8 karma)
Empathy Software Rank 6

10 Doses of the Following
Betameth, Betel, Cram, eX, G3, Guts, Hurlg, Jazz, Kamikaze, Long Haul, Nitro, NoPaint, Novacoke, Psyche, Push, Red Mescaline, Ripper, Snuff, Zero, Woad, Tempo, Galak, Overdrive, Pixie Dust, Trance
There's an auto injection system somewhere right? couldn't find it

+1 to Perception (always chewing Betel) not added below
+1 to resist fatigue (takes G3 daily)

Vance's drug combo's for appropriate occasions-


Leaving 165 karma for upping a few of the more commonly used skills a little, knowledge skills, contacts (probably including a dealer if not a cartel), and additional gear. Maybe a nice bike.

Sure, he could be better with augmentations, but he's still throwing 8-12 dice in a variety of areas when he really needs to, provided he's had some time to prepare beforehand.

Er, OK. How many dice is he throwing for his Addiction tests?

7 for Physical, 9 for Mental. -1 for Speedballing.

He's a candle burning at both ends. He's not going to last long on the streets, but how's he doing to support his high cost habits without running?

In other words, not enough, but you could probably get a good number of runs out of him if he doesn't use hardcore inbetween and you mix-up his meds a little to keep the addiction to any one thing getting too bad.

1) Wouldn't the crash from all of that kill him outright?
2) Allergy ware? Isn't that what the sensitive system quality is for?
3) That's a low blow, drugs or not that guy fighted of cancer several times and still was healthy enough to compete

You appear to be using x3 instead of x5 for attributes.

Gah! you're right. Stupid Chummer. Well knock AGI, Reaction, Charisma, and Int down by 1. his new attribute cost is then 295 Karma. I should have been suspicious of how well those stats were working out.

@Lionhearted
1)No, each blend is specifically chosen so that the crash results aren't fatal and usually are spread out enough that he can treatment for the stun damage fast enough that it won't even hit physical ranges.
2)I wanted a more plausible reason not to have any ware, rather than just it cost more essence.
3)Not really. Lance Armstrong's an impressive guy, but in order to compete against the best of the best he needed drugs. It seems appropriate for this character, since that's essentially what I'm trying to do. Take a mundane and get them to compete with the augmented characters using drugs to buff 'em up.

Thorya, I am interested in making a comparable augmented version, but can you add a few things?

1) You have 84 for knowledge skills, contacts, and gear. Can you fix an amount of that to be non-ware gear and we can just agree to assume they have the same KS/contacts/non-ware gear and not monkey with that?

2) Can you please specify the skills. This is important because different skill sets get boosted different amounts by different things, and amorphous skills are a nuisance to compare to.

Trying to figure out what he would be allergic to...
The individual components of cyberware would be non-allergenic, maybe with exception of the electricity that some people show an allergenic response to, but the energy (according to augmentation) are purely generated from different bodily functions and that would still rule out bioware.
With bioware maybe you got some kind of biological incompability with type O tissue or the genetically engineered genestrands... but that wouldn't be allergic rejection, just genetic incompability.
The common denominator for both however is immunosuppressants associated with implantation and that may very well produce an allergic reaction, lethal in some cases.
Then again I'm no expert on allergies...
A severe phobia of implantation (surgery), machines or implants would be appropriate to although.

Nothing is truly hypo-allergenic. Maybe instead though the patient has some weird form of SLE that attacks cyberware, in which case, immunosuppressants aren't logical as you have to take them all the time and that would leave you compromised to other diseases and the like.

If you have a liver transplant, you take immunosuppressants all the time.

Sure Thing, I was just trying to stick with NFU's format. I'm going to make a few changes because I realized I screwed up the karma attribute costs. I was thinking in BP and it's actually cheaper stat wise to go ork than elf and I don't need to for anything. So I'll just repost his corrected attributes with the corrected costs below.

1) Let's assume 26 karma for non-ware gear. He can get a vehicle, tricked out gear, armor, weapons, tools of the trade, etc. for that much reasonably. Which means 60 spent KS/Contacts. We don't need to worry about specifics. (86 total)

2) Sure, I've changed the list list slightly from the original post to give him a few skills above rank 2.

Attributes (300 Attributes, actually check X5 this time)
Bod 4
Agi 5
Rea 3
Str 3
Cha 4
Int 4
Log 5
Wil 4
Edg 3
(it might have been slightly more efficient to raise agility and drop Log 1, because many of the hacking skills do not actually use the attribute)

Skills (370)
(rank first, spec yes/no, dice pool, spec dice pool)- I have not factored in all drug bonuses, since many are situational and he wouldn't always be using. Generally any of these rolls could be boosted by 1-2 dice if the situation required, some by much more.
Animal Handling 1, y, 5, 7
Armor 2, y, 7, 9
Artisan 1, y, 5, 7
Automatics 3, y, 8, 10
Blades 1, y, 6, 8
Chemistry 3, y, 8, 10 (drugs, obviously)
Climbing 1, y, 4, 6
Computer 1, y, 6, 8
Con, 2, y, 6, 8
Cybertechnology 1, n, 6
Data Search 2, y, 7, 9
Demolitions 2, y, 7, 9
Disguise 1, y, 5, 7
Diving, 1, n, 5
Dodge, 2, y, 5, 7
Electronic Warfare, 2, y, 7, 9
Escape Artist, 1, y, 6, 8
Etiquette, 3, y, 7, 9
First Aid, 1, y, 7, 9
Forgery, 2, y, 7,9
Gunnery, 1, y, 6, 8
Gymnastics, 1, n, 6
Hacking 3, y, 8, 10
Hardware 1, n, 6
Infiltration 3, y, 8, 10
Intimidation 1, y, 5, 7
Leadership 1, y, 5, 7
Locksmith 2, y, 7, 9
Medicine 1, y, 6, 8
Navigation 1, n, 5
Negotiation 2, y, 6, 8
Palming 1, y, 6, 8
Parachuting 1, n, 5
Perception 3, y, 7, 9
Pilot Aircraft, 1, n, 4
Pilot Ground Craft, 2, y, 5, 7
Pilot watercraft 1, n, 4
Running 1, y, 4, 6 (urban environments really? how could you not take it)
Shadowing 2, y, 6, 8
Software 1, y, 6, 8
Survival 1, y, 5, 7
Swimming 1, n, 4
Throwing Weapons 1, y, 6, 8
Tracking 1, y, 5, 7
Unarmed Combat 1, y, 6, 8

Mechanic Skill group 1

No, you take them until your body stops trying to reject the transplant.

Which is normally as long as your immune system works properly (i know that there are a few possible solutions out there, but they are still in early prototype status).

In the 2070s, those solutions are not only no longer prototypes ... they're decades-old standard procedures.

There is also the "implant-induced immune deficiency" NQ in augmentation, which looks a lot like a chronic immunosupressant therapy.

It is only available for augmented characters, though. The GM would have to craft a mechanically similar one for an unaumented character to use. But a character who eschews augmentations could certainly get sensitive system and nano-intolerance. That's 20 points for purely lateral limiters.