Okay, so Changelings have access to certain Metagenetic Qualities that impose the "Freaks" penalty, a -3 dice pool modifier on most Social Skill Tests not performed over the Matrix, but a +2 dice pool modifier to Intimidation Tests.

The idea is that certain bizarre physical features are just so outlandish as to weird out ordinary people. Which makes sense! It's fine as a concept. But where it gets weird is in the execution. Let's look at the various qualities that inflict the Freaks modifier and compare their costs and benefits.

Positive Metagenetic Freaks Qualities

360-Degree Eyesight - For 10 BP you get the biological equivalent of the Eyeband cyberware implant, except you can't turn it off. You can see in a full 360 degrees, but this provides zero benefit in terms of game mechanics, as well as an additional -1 to any actions taken while in motion. Oh, and unlike the cyberware, you suffer the negative social modifiers of being a freak.

~Why is this is Positive quality?~

Beak - For 5 BP you get a Lifestyle cost reduction of 10% and a +1 to resist ingested toxins, but you can't chew your food and have to swallow it whole. For 10 BP, you get a Raptor Beak and can also inflict Physical damage instead of Stun via the Unarmed Skill. But of course, you're a freak.

~This one is a little better, but isn't great. I could see someone possibly taking this if they really wanted toxin immunity, cheaper lifestyle costs, and the Intimidation bonus from being a Freak, but the Raptor Beak's pitiful contribution does NOT merit an additonal 5 BP of cost - it should just be part of the basic variety at the basic cost.~

Larger Tusks - For 10 BP you get the Raptor Beak's ability to deal Physical damage instead of Stun via the Unarmed Skill, plus a bonus +1 DV, but without the Lifestyle cost reduction or the ingested toxin resistance. And you're a freak.

~And now we're back into WTF territory. The cost is absurd for the pitiful benefit it provides.~

Proboscis - For 10 BP, you can pick up and use objects with your elephant trunk. You can even perform fine manipulations like pulling a trigger, albeit at a -2 modifier. You can also use it to make a "blunt punch" as an Exotic Melee Weapon. Except... apparantly you can't? It informs use mere sentences later that "Trunks do not provide an extra attack." Uh. Okay?

~So yeah, if the whole matter of how the heck you're supposed to use this in combat was cleared up, I could see this being worth 10 BP to the right character or in the right circumstance. But the real problem I have with it is that all of the lore and fluff regarding Changelings purposefully and specifically states that the so called "Ganesha" changelings who resemble the Indian elephant god are actually not mistreated, in part because of the religious reverence they attract in their native India, but also because "The few ganeshas and cat people got the luck of the draw - they’re cutsey and can play off people’s preconceptions." Yet to actually build a Ganesha you need to possess not one, but TWO different Freaks qualities! Thankfully the modifiers don't stack, but still...~

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Negative Metagenetic Freaks Qualities

Cephalapoidal Skull - For -10 BP, you're a Davy Jones / Cthulu tentacle thing. You suffer -3 dice to resist damage to the head and upper torso, and you suffer the Freaks modifier.

~This one is actually pretty balanced. If you're into tentacles, anyway.~

Deformity - At the -5 BP value, you get a severe facial deformity, while a -25 BP value gives you severe physical deformity. Each of these can inflict their own negative modifiers, "Depending upon whether the deformation affects sensory or motor functions", whatever that means. For the facial deformity, a flat -2 to Perception, because apparantly having a messed up face not only impacts vision, but also hearing, taste, touch, and smell somehow. For the physical deformity, you suffer a -1 to Physical Active Tests. In either case, you suffer the Freaks modifier but at double value.

~This is another absurd one. The wishy-washiness about whether a deformity affects sensory or motor functions or not is just sloppy. Is it saying that you have to hash it out with your GM as to whether you suffer the penalties or not? Because that's just a headache waiting to happen. Either have deformities impose penalties, or have them not, none of this sitting on the fence crap.

Putting that aside, the facial deformity is grossly underpriced. A blanket -2 to perception coupled with a -6 to social tests for a measly 5 BP and +4 to Intimidation is just baffling, especially compared to the numerous -5 BP negative metagenetic qualities that impose almost NO mechanical modifiers, (Extravagent Eyes, Feathers, Scales, Striking Skin Pigmentation, Unusual Hair, Vestigial Tail), or which impose MUCH LESS severe penalties (Bioluminescence, Critter Spook, Mood Hair, Stubby Arms). Double or triple the value to -10 or -15 BP, and make the Freaks modifier only apply once (in all other cases it never stacks), and this MIGHT be worth considering.~

Insectoid Features - For -5 BP, you're a bug thing. You inflict a Critter Spook effect on people, and are a freak.

~Here's another decently priced one. The only concern I have with it is that it suggests that you may be mistaken for a Bug Spirit Flesh Form, so you need to be sure your GM isn't a dick who is going to screw you over just because of that.~

Neoteny - For -10 BP, you have the body of a child, reducing your physical Condition Monitor by 2 points and making people think you're a child. It says that you "may" suffer the Freaks modifier, presumably meaning it's up to the GM.

~Mixed thoughts on this one. A reduced physical condition track is harsh, but probably worth the 10 BP. It's the social modifiers I have problems with. Neoteny technically imposes the Freaks negative social modifier, but that would only ever make sense in cases where it was known that you weren't actually a child, and even then that's a bit of a stretch. In real life, Neotenous people do run into the problem of being treated like children, but the negative effects this produces are hardly comparable to something like having a gorram elephant trunk instead of a nose.~

Third Eye - For -5 BP, you have a third eye. It acts exactly like your other eyes, and as long as any 2 of your 3 eyes are open, you still have depth perception. It also inflicts the Freaks modifier, but only if someone notices it, which takes a Perception Test [2].

~This one is fine. Cheap price, minor effect. Wear a hat or headband to cover it up most of the time, but suffer a detriment if you end up revealing it for some reason.~

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Annnnd that's it! Weirdly.

It's kind of nonsensical which qualities impose the Freaks modifier and which do not, though.

I mean, with Feathers you can be covered in fluffy duckling down from head to toe and no one will bat an eye? Speaking of eyes, no one thinks it's weird to be a Cyclops with "a single huge eye directly above the nose"? You can be a furry monkey-man with Unusual Hair, Monkey Paws, and a Prehensile Tail and your Social skill tests are completely unaffected? You can have Striking Skin Pigmentation, Stubby Arms, and Thorns all at once and that's just dandy? A dude can walk into a bar with Clawed hands, Rhino Hide, Bone Spikes, Goring Horns, Gills, Shiva Arms, Satyr Legs, a nictitating membrane for Underwater Vision, and Webbed Hands and Feet, and he'll have an easier time making Social Tests than some putz with a third eye on his forehead?

Seriously?

~Umi

You can attack with the knife in your hand or with your trunk but you may not make an attack with both your knife and trunk.

Why the hell not?

If you can attack with both a Cyber-Spur implanted in your ankle and a gorram Oral Slasher at the same time, why can't you do the same with a trunk and a knife?

~Umi

It might just be me being lazy but I found the number of options given for SURGE kinda lacking, they want you to build thematic freaks but they only seem to have like four or five coherent themes possible.

Indeed, I feel exactly the same way. Particularly the Negative qualities are very limited.

As a matter of fact, I'm even writing up my own "Snout" quality, inspired by my recent work in building a T'skrang. I'll share it once it's done.

~Umi

erm, wait, did not every last single one of the metagenetic qualities, both visible and invisible, render one a freak?

That would make glamour kinda pointless

yeah, so?
doesn't mean it's not true, does it?
i remember having read something to that extent somewhere . .

Only the qualities I listed above are marked as imposing the Freaks modifier.

~Umi

I don't think that having a character with Insectoid Features be mistaken for a bug spirit qualifies as "being a dick" or "screwing the player over." The bugs are one of the big, existential threats in Shadowrun; Ares nuked a major American city to contain an outbreak, and twenty years later Chicago still isn't back to normal. John Q. Public might not necessarily have a reaction beyond, "Ew, gross," but anyone with even one rank in Magical Threats or similar Knowledge Skill is going to be seriously perturbed by the character and probably report a suspected insect hive to somebody.

Bottom line: if you don't want to suffer the consequences of looking like something that wants to eat the entire ecosphere for lunch, don't take the Quality.

Okay, then it's a quality no one will ever take, because 5 BP is not worth being treated worse than Special Infected. Congratulations, it's a waste of printing space.

~Umi

Took it for my Spider themed character.

What kind of features was that TJ? given that arachnids doesn't really have that many distinctly insect features, no multi-facet eyes, fangs rather then mandibles so on and so forth

Yeah... spiders aren't insects.

That and the fact that Insect Spirits aren't spiders.



~Umi

There is a spider spirit however, she eats invae
a spider character would be kinda cool though, good excuse for shiva arms

Subphylum Chelicerata vs Subphylum Hexapoda

Sometimes arachnophobia comes in handy.

He has the face of a Spider; so Multiple eyes, chelicerae with fangs, and so on and so forth. The Quality seemed like the easiest route for that.
Spiders may not BE insects, but they creep people out just the same, and the character makes it a habit to hide his features best he can.

That a can of WD40 you got there?

Nope, it's a can of bug spray.

Bug spray? Why? What's that for?

When that guy acts up. -.-

I still maintain that since Spider Spirits are not the same as Insect Spirits, people wouldn't react to them in the same way.

Just because spiders are "scary" doesn't mean they're on the same level as the fear inspired by the known malevolence of Inspect Spirits. I wouldn't treat Spider features any differently than I would treat Scorpion features, or Shrimp features, or Crab features, or Lobster features, or any other arthropods.

Say, maybe that's an idea. Change Insectoid Features to Arthropoid Features, and make it a two level quality. At the 5 BP level, you look like one of the non-insect arthropods and suffer the Freaks modifier and the Critter Spook effect. At the 10 BP level, you resemble insect spirit flesh forms, inspiring people to attack you, perhaps if they fail a composure check.

~Umi

A lot of people associate spiders with insects and as most have no experience of a "benevolent" spider spirit they will most likely just assume it's another bug they haven't seen before. they're also likely to adopt a "better safe then sorry" attitude.

360-degree vision. Nothign can "sneak up behind you". Thoguh I tend to agree, it should be a 5-pointer, nto a 10-pointer.


Otherwise, generally, I agree with your overall assessment.

Each feature should have been assigned a "freak index", with the total from both positives and negatives producing the "Gene Freak" penalty. Neoteny, for example, would have a 0 IMO; okay so you look like a kid, or a tweenager at best. You're still not bright purple, scaley, with a tail and a glowing beak ...!!

HOLO HOOD clothing feature, here we come!!

He embraced the look, though it does not help (or, maybe it does) that he has 8 limbs... He just does not socialize much. He never gets invited to the big parties.

Oh you've just been hanging with the wrong people, that whole spider thing you got going? The extreme clubbing scene will just Lo-ve it!

Just finished a preliminary write-up of my proposed "Snout" metagenetic quality.


Feel free to suggest improvements.

~Umi

SURGE'd TM that has neoteny and Glamour. "No mister, I ain't one of those techno-whatsits. But that drone behind you with the LMG thinks you should leave now".

That is quite possible...

No, they all give you the distinctive style quality. The freaks modifier only applies to the more extreme SURGE qualities, such as insectoid features.

There are certainly negative SURGE qualities that are a lot more detrimental than others, but there has never been much parity in quality costs - some are bargains, while others should cost a lot less (positive), or be worth a lot more (negative). But while the more extreme qualities may seem to offer more disadvantages, they also tend to be taken by people who want to play the outcast/pariah type of character. That doesn't mean I wouldn't house rule a few minor changes if I was the GM (deformity level: 1 should be 10 points, not 5, for example - although the additional penalty would be non-ambiguous).

Some of the negative ones aren't negative enough aswell... 5 BP for blue hair?
Im okay when it's used for werewolf syndrome kind of deals, but really? unusual hair colour qualifies?
I knew a girl with blue hair that liked to wear various coloured patterned lenses (including a pair made to look like radioactivity signs) Didn't stand out as a metagenetic freak to me...

I have to agree about the hair color. Shows how far we've come from the "80's but with elves and cyber" aesthetic.

@Glyph:
Aaah yes, i think i got that mixed up.

I had a character with one of the hair qualities (Specifically mood hair). My GM and I discussed it and decided that one side effect of the mutation was that the hair was extremely resistant to dying, with nanite-based disguises required to conceal it effectively for more than a few hours. It made the quality actually have some impact for my face character.

i suspect the real problem with changelings rests with 3rd, rather than 4th. they were a part of 'year of the comet', and later migrated to core rules from a supplement without much change. some of them are a tip of the hat to earthdawn, while others are just strange. Overall, its not really a balanced selection as the original version had rules for random mutation of existing characters. it does allow for a huge number of very strange characters, but a good chunk of it is just a list of random negative effects, rather than well thought out or balanced options.

really, i believe the most imbalanced options were to modify attribute maximums. surge class II, metagenic improvement(20), impair a different attribute, and grab some blue hair. stack on a genetic upgrade, and now your at +2 to an attribute maximum on your metahuman.

Even difficult to dye hair can still easily be concealed. And while Mood Hair at least betrays your emotions, Unusual Hair costs the same amount of BP, but has almost no practical downside to it. Contrast that to something like a facial Deformity, again giving the exact same 5 BP, but inflicting -2 dice to perception tests and -6 dice to all social tests? That's just madness.

~Umi

I don't have a problem with 5-point flaws being comparatively mild. Essentially, you are taking on a trait that is moderately but not impossibly difficult to hide, that makes your character stand out. Unusual hair, striking skin pigmentation, vestigial tail, scales, feathers, and so on. Personally, I think the deformity quality should be worth more than 5 points.

I would also add that if a changeling gets a quick, easy outpatient bit of biosculpting or cosmetic 'ware to get rid of one of these traits, they should be required to buy the flaw off.

They are required to buy the flaw off. No "should" about it.

~Umi

A thought I just had:

Quadruped: 5BP Positive Metagenic Quality
The character's hips, shoulders, and limbs are modified to support quadrupedal locomotion. The character's base movement rates are doubled when moving on all fours, but bipedal movement becomes more awkward, incurring a 50% penalty to movement rate.

But now you're constantly prone...?

~Umi

I should think he was probably picturing somethign closer to a gorilla, that CAN walk bipedally, or CAN walk quadrupedally (but still surprisingly upright).

In which case, it should probably be worth more than 5BP.

The only thing that's comparable are Sasobonsams, who can walk and run while prone. And with those, you're trading a normal ghoul's Claws for Elongated Limbs as well as the ability to run while on all fours.

Metagenetic Claws cost 5 BP, but Ghoul Claws have +1 DV compared to the metagenic variety. Elongated limbs also cost 5 BP. Swapping the one for the other is roughly equal, with Ghoul claws being slightly more valuable than their metagenetic counterpart. Thus, running on all fours is worth however much that single +1 DV is worth. At the very most, 5 BP.

~Umi

.... so make it a 5BP trait, that requires you to already have Elongated Arms ...?

That kind of makes it into a 10 BP variant of Elongated Arms, though, and that's not really worth it in my mind.

~Umi

Look at it as more of a Satyr LEgs for 5BP, that you can get if you have Elongated Arms.

I wouldn't penalise bipedal movement, mind you. Just give you the option to go twice as fast as normal, when on all fours.

That might push the value up enough to justify it.

~Umi

From the average Joe's point of view, both are chitinous, with eyes that don't look like eyes should (spider eyes may not be faceted, but they're still lacking eyelids, pupils and similar mamailan eye features) and nasty moving parts were lips should be. Which means he'll probably react just the same way. Sure when enlarged to human scales the features may be distictive to teh trained eye, but how many peoples have had a good, close look at insects and spiders to tell their facial fetures apart ?

How do you think District 9's aliens would be viewed in Shadowrun ? My bet would on the 'torchs and pitchforks' end of spectrum.

Considering all the other negative qualities that are worth 5BP, like mild allergy to a uncommon substance or -2 dice to resist simsense damage etc. , i don't see much problem with this.

The difference is those actually impose mechanical penalties.

You lose dice to your allergy if you don't protect yourself from it. You lose dice to resist simsense damage if you don't actively avoid it. But there's absolutely no penalty to running around with a two foot long purple pompadour, or having chest hair that naturally grows in the shape of Australia.

~Umi

Those are mild inconveniences, in a world with obvious cyberlimb replacements, and 2,5m high trolls no one is even going to bat an eyelash at blue hair...

Exactly. From a mechanical standpoint, you're getting free build points, and that's not kosher.

A negative quality is dependent on causing at least some form of problem for the player, otherwise it doesn't give the points. GMs are expressly instructed not to allow negative qualities that will never be an issue for the player, like not letting most of the hacking-based negative qualities be taken by someone who never plans on hacking.

~Umi

Yes there is, your easier to find if when you have such distinctive features.
So if someone sees your blue hair on the run, it makes it that much easier to track you down, yes you can try to avoid that happening, just like you can avoid damaging simsense and uncommon allergy substances.