The original version of movement (in Predator and Prey) had explicit notes that the critter controlling it could use it to cause bad things to happen to the target. Those have totally vanished from the 3rd and 4th edition. As far as I can tell, the idea seem to be that there are no negative effects on the target. Essentially, under a F6 movement and driving at 100 MPH you are treated for all intents and purposes as if you are driving at 100 MPH, not at the better part of Mach 1.

MOVEMENT
Type: P • Action: Complex • Range: LOS • Duration: Sustained
The being may use the Movement power to increase or decrease a target’s movement rate within the terrain it controls by multiplying or dividing the target’s movement rate by the being’s Essence.
When the Movement power is used on vehicles, the critter makes an Essence Test with a target number equal to half the vehicle’s Body. Multiply the successes by the vehicle’s Acceleration Rating and add the result to or subtract it from the vehicle’s Speed in the next Combat turn (similar to the vehicle making an Acceleration or Deceleration Test). The critter may continue making Essence Tests to increase or decrease the vehicle’s speed each Combat Turn it sustains the Movement power. Depending on the situation, this change in speed may call for a Crash or Stress Test.

Speed
Speed is the reasonable high-end maximum velocity of the vehicle.
Drivers can accelerate past this, but they encounter difficulties in pushing their vehicles to go faster while still maintaining control. The gamemaster should apply modifiers as she feels appropriate.
Speed is expressed in meters per Combat Turn.

I'd say using an SR4 Vehicle Test would seem appropriate and by the book. Exceeding the vehicles Speed attribute should increase the Threshold of maneuvers attempted by 1 for each Running Rate multiple increase above the Speed. I'd go so far as to use the Running rate acceleration times the Force as the maximum that a vehicle can withstand before it gets ripped apart by the un-natural acceleration.

I meant for the modifiers and damage threshold to come into effect after the vehicle exceeds the Speed Rating of the vehicle.

OR we could substitute the Vehicles Body in place of force for calculating the upper speed threshold that a vehicle can withstand.

(Running rate x Body) + Speed Rating

So a Dodge Scoot (Scooter) with a rated Speed of 60 m/ct could handle a max speed of 120 m/ct before taking damage, while a GMC Banshee (Thunderbird) with a rated Speed of 1,000 m/ct could sustain Speeds up to 6000 m/ct.

Magic should have it's limits, just not the same ones as mechanics.

I meant for the modifiers and damage threshold to come into effect after the vehicle exceeds the Speed Rating of the vehicle.

OR we could substitute the Vehicles Body in place of force for calculating the upper speed threshold that a vehicle can withstand.

(Running rate x Body) + Speed Rating

So a Dodge Scoot (Scooter) with a rated Speed of 60 m/ct could handle a max speed of 120 m/ct before taking damage, while a GMC Banshee (Thunderbird) with a rated Speed of 1,000 m/ct could sustain Speeds up to 6000 m/ct.

Magic should have it's limits, just not the same ones as mechanics.

In my never-ending crusade to argue that Shadowrun is -not- Magicrun because checks and balances for magic are built into the game, I like to use this power as an example. I say to the player, "Sure, you're PC's Force 10 spirit can speed up his motorcycle by a factor of 10. Now, let's see him negotiate that T-junction at 1000 km/h." And sure, this can be used offensively. No worse than Stunbolting the driver. Well, except for the effects on the local environment.

Also, mechanical limitations such as those suggested above are reasonable.

This is why Old Man Jones casts Levitate on his BMW* before having his ally spirit use Movement.

No buildings to hit at 2000 feet up.



-k

* - Okay it only happened once but it did happen. Oh my god that spell threshold. "I may have to use Edge on this."

In my never-ending crusade to argue that Shadowrun is -not- Magicrun because checks and balances for magic are built into the game, I like to use this power as an example. I say to the player, "Sure, you're PC's Force 10 spirit can speed up his motorcycle by a factor of 10. Now, let's see him negotiate that T-junction at 1000 km/h." And sure, this can be used offensively. No worse than Stunbolting the driver. Well, except for the effects on the local environment.

Also, mechanical limitations such as those suggested above are reasonable.

Side one: Holy FRAK I’m moving fast!

All my reference info is from previous editions of SR.

I like that view. It means the Movement Power doesn't turn that car into a rail gun super weapon. If you use the reduced momentum it doesn't increase the vehicle damage on a Ram either...

Thanks guys. I see (more-or-less) 2 opposing viewpoints here on how the Movement power works. Can anyone provide quotes, either RAW or fluff, to support their side or is it strictly GM/group interpretation?

I had a big discussion with Frank Trollman over this here a few years. As he got his ambulance with movement idea published I'd say he won.

So I take it Frank's path on this was:
Side two: I’m diddling along at normal speed… (from outside) Holy FRAK he’s moving fast!
??

now use movement on a heimdall drone.
presto, cheapish self made thor shot!

Not really... The Drone just does not have the Mass to generate the energy of a Thor Shot upon impact. Even assuming that you do not generate enough friction (in atmosphere, obviously) to melt it at that speed. *shrug*

That depends on what velocity is achievable with the drone (velocity being a much larger factor than mass in the energy equation). And, assuming the drone remains cohesive enough as it reaches it's kill velocity, its being a molten hunk of slag by the point of impact won't be too much of an issue.

That depends on what velocity is achievable with the drone (velocity being a much larger factor than mass in the energy equation). And, assuming the drone remains cohesive enough as it reaches it's kill velocity, its being a molten hunk of slag by the point of impact won't be too much of an issue.

30,000 FPS x 200 pounds is vastly inferior to 30,000 FPS x 5000 Pounds when it comes to energy output.

That reminds me of a funny snippet I read years back about a can of soup versus a Star Destroyer at different velocities. I can't find it now, however.

Hey Tymeaus Jalynsfein where do you get 30,000 FPS and 5,000 lbs for a Thor Shot?

This technology is very far out—in miles and years. A pair of satellites orbiting several hundred miles above the Earth would serve as a weapons system. One functions as the targeting and communications platform while the other carries numerous tungsten rods—up to 20 feet in length and a foot in diameter—that it can drop on targets with less than 15 minutes’ notice. When instructed from the ground, the targeting satellite commands its partner to drop one of its darts. The guided rods enter the atmosphere, protected by a thermal coating, traveling at 36,000 feet per second—comparable to the speed of a meteor. The result: complete devastation of the target, even if it’s buried deep underground. (The two-platform configuration permits the weapon to be “reloaded” by just launching a new set of rods, rather than replacing the entire system.)

The concept of kinetic-energy weapons has been around ever since the RAND Corporation proposed placing rods on the tips of ICBMs in the 1950s; the satellite twist was popularized by sci-fi writer Jerry Pournelle. Though the Pentagon won’t say how far along the research is, or even confirm that any efforts are underway, the concept persists. The “U.S. Air Force Transformation Flight Plan,” published by the Air Force in November 2003, references “hypervelocity rod bundles” in its outline of future space-based weapons, and in 2002, another report from RAND, “Space Weapons, Earth Wars,” dedicated entire sections to the technology’s usefulness.

If so-called “Rods from God”—an informal nickname of untraceable origin—ever do materialize, it won’t be for at least 15 years. Launching heavy tungsten rods into space will require substantially cheaper rocket technology than we have today. But there are numerous other obstacles to making such a system work. Pike, of GlobalSecurity.org, argues that the rods’ speed would be so high that they would vaporize on impact, before the rods could penetrate the surface. Furthermore, the “absentee ratio”—the fact that orbiting satellites circle the Earth every 100 minutes and so at any given time might be far from the desired target—would be prohibitive. A better solution, Pike argues, is to pursue the original concept: Place the rods atop intercontinental ballistic missiles, which would slow down enough during the downward part of their trajectory to avoid vaporizing on impact. ICBMs would also be less expensive and, since they’re stationed on Earth, would take less time to reach their targets. “The space-basing people seem to understand the downside of space weapons,” Pike says—among them, high costs and the difficulty of maintaining weapon platforms in orbit. “But I’ll still bet you there’s a lot of classified work on this going on right now.”

[...] 7,600,000 TJ [...]

I don't have much to say about the speed, but if my calculations are correct you are a bit off on the mass.

According to War! page 160 a Thor missile is a tungsten rod 0.5m by 12m, total volume of 9.429 m^3
According to this web site tungsten has a mass of 19,280 kg/m^3
Putting a Thor Missile at 181,791.1 kg or 400,780.8 lbs

I think the energy output from this rod will be much higher than you think it is.

All I can say is OUCH, being hit by 182 metric tons moving at any speed would suck. Of course so would launching 12 of those into space.

Oh and by the way, I love the Shadowrun math and research department.

*edit: Just a note, according to my research we currently do not have the ability to place even one Thor Missile in orbit, let alone the standard satellite full of them.
*edit2: If my back of the napkin math is close (based on 30,000fps) the total energy output from a single Thor missile will be 7,600,000 TJ, which is about 3.5 times the total energy released from all world-wide nuclear testing as of 1996 (see this wiki for my energy numbers).

To get slightly back on topic, what would happen if a Spirit used Movement on an incoming THOR shot?

To get slightly back on topic, what would happen if a Spirit used Movement on an incoming THOR shot?