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yesferatu
Hey guys, so I'm equipping a character to use primarily silent/strength based weapons and I'm trying to find the best thing to use at range.
Thus far, the best I've got is a thrown Cougar Fineblade. DV=(Str/2+1)P -1AP. Will that work or is something else better?
Can you turn anything into a throwing weapon by simply throwing it or is there a specific list of throwing weapons?

Is there a preferred throwing weapon or is (Str/2+1) -1AP pretty much the best you're going to get?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
I actually perfer Shuriken (I play an Oni Ninja), but that is a style choice, more than anything. smile.gif
With the Adept Ability Missile Mastery, anything can become a potentially lethal thrown weapon. My favorite to date was the little umbrella that comes in a mixed drink. smile.gif
Stahlseele
Grenades.
Make a Stick and Shock Grenade for example.
Or make a Smoke/Gas-Grenade sticky.
Throw it as a thrown weapon. Then set it off remotely, when it sticks to a Target after having done the Thrown Weapon Damage already.
For Slapstick Fun, use Slip-Spray grenades for this. These are all reasonably silent. There is no such thing as a one hit KO with this stuff.
Otherwise Drug coated Weapons of course.
Angelone
Missile Mastery along with Power Throw will be your friends. As for specific things I was always fond of marbles. Perfectly legal plus you can dump the bag to make a getaway in addition to throwing them.
yesferatu
What about straight up mundanes?
Stahlseele
There's a Reason™ why Guns are called "The Great Equalizer"

Otherwise, see my last post. If you want to do silly stuff, do silly effective stuff by being creative.
yesferatu
Let's say you'd like to take advantage of that 15 strength...
Stahlseele
Bow and Arrow are your Friends.
yesferatu
What about 1-handers?
bannockburn
All of these things that are not designed to be thrown suffer penalties for being improvised throwing weapons (Arsenal, p. 19).
That means, the range categories are shorter than for grenades, shuriken or dedicated throwing knives, and the GM could apply negative modifiers.
Throwing a cougar fine blade will only net you a lower damage value than attacking with one, so it's really not that good.
A thrown sword has the same range as a throwing knife, with only marginally better damage.
The table is on p. 20, Arsenal.

For the pure mundane thrower, grenades are the best bang (literally) for the buck.
CanRay
Metahuman body wearing a bomb vest. nyahnyah.gif
Angelone
A sheep.
Thanee
QUOTE (yesferatu @ May 21 2013, 12:52 AM) *
Let's say you'd like to take advantage of that 15 strength...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PgF_7J_RfI

Oh, just 15... sorry, that won't cut it! biggrin.gif

Bye
Thanee

P.S. Javelin is STR/2+2P 0AP
nezumi
I was going to recommend throwing the dwarf, but CanRay beat me to it. Damn you, Canray!
CanRay
QUOTE (nezumi @ May 20 2013, 07:37 PM) *
I was going to recommend throwing the dwarf, but CanRay beat me to it. Damn you, Canray!
You're welcome.
Freya
If you're going with the descriptions of "Improved Thrown Weapons" in Arsenal and using strictly one-handed weapons, a monofilament sword would probably end up as (STR/2) +1P. (The pattern seems to be that the thrown version of the weapon is -1 DV from the handheld version.) A javelin is (STR/2) +2P.
Elfenlied
Best thrown weapon is the Tomahawk with its mix of good damage and shuriken range.

Personally, I prefer Jelly Beans or Gummibears as thrown weapons. Ammo is plentiful and available at your nearest stuffer shack.
yesferatu
Could you theoretically mod a tomahawk with Cougar Fineblade material to add a -1AP?
CanRay
QUOTE (yesferatu @ May 21 2013, 10:21 AM) *
Could you theoretically mod a tomahawk with Cougar Fineblade material to add a -1AP?
Dikote? biggrin.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (yesferatu @ May 21 2013, 08:21 AM) *
Could you theoretically mod a tomahawk with Cougar Fineblade material to add a -1AP?


Wouldn't that make it a Cougar FineBlade? smile.gif
yesferatu
...with 1 reach and an additional damage...yes...but it's not by the book.
DamHawke
QUOTE (CanRay @ May 22 2013, 01:35 AM) *
Dikote? biggrin.gif

Dikote and a crate full of throwing knives!
StealthSigma
QUOTE (yesferatu @ May 20 2013, 06:52 PM) *
Let's say you'd like to take advantage of that 15 strength...


You could climb Mt Everest, run the length of Japan, or swim across the English Channel.
CanRay
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ May 22 2013, 03:39 PM) *
You could climb Mt Everest, run the length of Japan, or swim across the English Channel.
Climb Volcano Rainier and throw molten rocks from the top at your enemies! biggrin.gif
Shaidar
Information on Dikote is available in the 2050 book.

1,000 nuyen per dose which will cover 100 square centimeters. It only grants +1 DV to the weapon, if it is edged it also gets -1 AP.

Essentially it covers the surface with a coating of diamond.
Shortstraw
16lb bowling ball filled with rtg 15 explosive - turn that troll into a 7-10 split.
CanRay
QUOTE (Shortstraw @ May 26 2013, 06:40 AM) *
16lb bowling ball filled with rtg 15 explosive - turn that troll into a 7-10 split.
Dwarf wrapped in these. biggrin.gif
Raiden
Nay I suggest a thought slightly modified from a dif. Thread... tomahawk shaped explosives.
MortVent
Best to date...

Splash grenade with magical compound : think catnip for dragons and drakes...

Used at a corporate meeting that included Lowyfer and Hestaby among other great dragons (and servants..)

CanRay
QUOTE (MortVent @ May 27 2013, 06:52 PM) *
Splash grenade with magical compound : think catnip for dragons and drakes...
Powdered Kitten?
Shinobi Killfist
The one that is in your hand.
Jaid
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ May 28 2013, 12:06 AM) *
The one that is in your hand.


but the one that is in your hand isn't thrown yet, it's just throwable. clearly it doesn't qualify ^^
CanRay
Durrarf Out! "MUNGO YOU SON OF A..." *WHAM*
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Jaid @ May 28 2013, 12:19 AM) *
but the one that is in your hand isn't thrown yet, it's just throwable. clearly it doesn't qualify ^^


That is a thrown weapon not a throwing weapon. Don;t know how I didn;t catch how he wrote that in the title. My bad. smile.gif
BlackJaw
A tomahawk (Arsenal p16) is a good throwing weapon, and useful as a melee weapon as well, as noted by other posters. There are some tricks we can do to make it more interesting of course, but they rapidly make the weapon very expensive, which can be a problem for something you literally throw away when you use at range.

First of all, let's make a stealth friendly overly functional weapon...

Tomahawk (Str/2)+2p, AP 0, $150

If your GM will allow you to use it, Shadowrun 2050's Dikote (Shadowrun 2050 p181) adds to damage and AP. It's applied by surface area, so we'll go ahead and assume a Tomahawk is around 200 cm squared, a bit under half the Karnataka area.

Dikoted Tomahawk (Str/2)+3p, AP -2, $2,150

For purposes of modding this diamond coated tomahawk, it has 6 modifications slots. Now the weapon modification rules are sadly aimed at firearms with little thought for other weapons, especially thrown ones, but there are some tricks we can do. The "Underbarrle Weapon" mod on page 153 of Arsenal notes "It is also possible to install this system into melee and other unconventional weapons" so we are going to use that mod system to add taser functions to the Tomahawk, using up 3 modification slots, and costing the same as the installed weapon. We could build in an AZ-150 Stun Baton, but that would technically make the weapon an axe or stun baton. Instead, let's use a Shock Glove, which adds stun damage to an existing attack, triggered on impact. Essentially we are placing a set of shock points just in from the bladed edge.

Dikoted Shock Tomahawk (Str/2)+3p, AP -2, (+5s [shock] 10 charges), $2,350
Notes: 3/6 slots

Now we still have some more tricks. Reduced Weight (Arsenal p153) will cut the weight in half for purposes of throwing it, although I'm not clear exactly what that does in terms of helping with ranges. We can also add in a customized grip, which will add a +1 to melee attack rolls, although it doesn't help with throwing. That still leaves 1 slot left to have the weapon modified for use by a Troll or Dwarf, if needed (+$50, use up last slot).

Dikoted Lightweight Shock Tomahawk with Personalized Grip (Str/2)+3p, AP -2, (+5s [shock] 10 charges), $2,600
Notes: 4/6 slot, +1 Melee for you only, Half weight to aid in throwing.

There are a few more tricks I can add here, but doing so will inflate the price even more than what we have here, and it will use up the last modification slot instead of metahuman adjusted, which would be trouble if you are making a Troll or Dwarf who throws Tomahawks.

So, let's make this a hacking Tomahawk...
First of all, we'll add in a weapon commlink. If this was a gun, we could just use a Smartgun system, but that's not technically possible. Instead we are going to use the Weapon Commlink modification on Arsenal Page 33. Sadly this is a $1000 add-on before the link itself is factored in. For the link we don't need anything fancy, so a Metalink (Response 1, Signal 2) will work fine. It will need some an OS, but again, simple Vector Xim will work fine. Now you will want to slave the Tomahawk to your own Commlink, or a specially prepared link I'm not pricing here. We just installed the link in the tomahawk because we wanted to make it a wireless device. Now go ahead and pickup a Pocket Hacker software package from Unwired p127. Lastly, we want a Skinlink for the weapon, using up the last Customization Slot. Now configure the Pocket Hacker software to automatically attempt to break into the network of any unknown network that the Tomahawk detects through it's skinlink. Now when you attack with the weapon, on top of the shock damage, you also get a free hacking attempt into their network if they are skin-linked. Even if you throw the weapon, it will have a signal rating of 2 for linking you into the skin-linked PAN of your target. If you buy multiple tomahawks, you don't need to buy the software again, thanks to the slaving setup. If you have a skilled hacker in your group, he can probably up the abilities of this hacking trick with various malware or a better pocket hacker setup instead.

Dikoted Lightweight Hacking Shock Tomahawk with Personalized Grip (Str/2)+3p, AP -2, (+5s [shock] 10 charges) (+Hacking attempt if target is using skinlink), $3,950 +$4,920
Notes: 6/6 slot, +1 Melee for you only, Half weight to aid in throwing, Hacking at an exploit dice-pool of 6.

Now let's make some cheaper "disposable" Shock Versions
If we drop the link and dikote, you still have a decent stealth weapon that you can probably afford to buy in bulk and leave behind on a run. I'm also removing the Personalized grip because the theory is that this version is just being used for throwing, and also because if you leave them behind, it might be used to figure out your identity.

Lightweight Shock Tomahawk (Str/2)+2p, AP 0, (+5s [shock] 10 charges), $500
Notes: Half weight to aid in throwing.

Forget Subtle, Let's make it Explode!
For this version we replace the integrated shock system for an integrated grenade. It's not the stealth or subtle answer, but it does give you a great way to blow crap up. It's also the very definition of disposable because one thrown it will explode. Sadly, it won't explode on impact under standard grenade rules, so instead we'll make it a sticky so if you hit the target it will stay there until it explodes. The Gecko Grenade mod (WAR p157) will handle this.

Lightweight High Explosive Gecko Tomahawk (Str/2)+2p, AP 0, (+10p -2ap blast at -2/m), $395
Notes: Half weight to aid in throwing, does not include Airburst so it doesn't explode "on impact."
Modular Man
Here we go. Awesome.
I'll have to convince the group's troll to get some of these... The GM will slap me over the head.

More seriously (a little): Tomahawks tend to bring best range for good damage and also concealability. If that does not fit your needs, the javelin/spear/harpoon is next in line (same damage, same range).
These weapons are designed for throwing, so getting any better is difficult...
If nothing else works, check the table for improvised throwing weapons in "Arsenal", p. 20, for the thrown combat axe. It deals (Str / 2 + 3) K damage.

I've read about some groups who incorporate house-rules monofilament blade modifications (for better AP, if I recall correctly), creating the blades the same way as the Cougar Fineblade might go the same route - though the small blade isn't so powerful, it has the same stats as a standard survival knife.
CanRay
QUOTE (BlackJaw @ May 31 2013, 12:21 PM) *
*Loads Of Text*
Do you one better: A dwarf holding all those weapons. At once!
UmaroVI
Combat Axe, Boomerang, and Throwing Net are the hidden really good throwing weapons. Combat Axes have low range but great damage, Boomerangs have by far the best range and still pretty good damage, and Throwing Nets have a unique effect that a lot of people can't get out of.

Throwing Knives are OK for a concealable backup throwing weapon.
Modular Man
Two throwing knives hidden somehow in combat boots are simply classic.

Also, if the are sheathed and stored as a last-ditch weapon, consider poisoning them. Poison (with physical damage) is one of the advantages large projectiles have over bullets.
Jaid
adding hacking to a shock-delivery system is likely to have one flaw:

doesn't the electric shock shut down devices for a while? it's going to be hard to hack something when it's been shut off nyahnyah.gif
KarmaInferno
Throw a cargo freighter.

Go big or go home.



-k
X-Kalibur
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ May 31 2013, 04:48 PM) *
Throw a cargo freighter.

Go big or go home.



-k


Go big and send them home in it.
CanRay
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ May 31 2013, 06:48 PM) *
Throw a cargo freighter.

Go big or go home.

-k
Do you one better: Cargo Freighter, captained by a dwarf!
KarmaInferno
Don't mind me, I just saw the trailer for Pacific Rim, and while I have no idea about the quality of the actual film, seeing a giant robot wielding a cargo freighter like a club makes me squee.




-k
Dyspeptic
Dude... Monofilament Bolas, because, well, they're Monofilament Bolas. Turns anyone you throw them at *into* a dwarf.
CanRay
QUOTE (Dyspeptic @ Jun 1 2013, 03:56 AM) *
Dude... Monofilament Bolas, because, well, they're Monofilament Bolas. Turns anyone you throw them at *into* a dwarf.
What does it turn Dwarfs into?
DamHawke
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 1 2013, 08:21 PM) *
What does it turn Dwarfs into?

Halflings wobble.gif
Umidori
QUOTE (BlackJaw @ May 31 2013, 10:21 AM) *
Instead, let's use a Shock Glove, which adds stun damage to an existing attack, triggered on impact. Essentially we are placing a set of shock points just in from the bladed edge.
Sadly (or perhaps happily?), this is not how Shock Gloves work. They don't add Electrical damage to existing attacks, they simply replace the damage code, like all other electrical weapons. A hulking troll and a weakling pixie both do the same base damage if they punch someone with a shock glove.

QUOTE (BlackJaw @ May 31 2013, 10:21 AM) *
Now we still have some more tricks. Reduced Weight (Arsenal p153) will cut the weight in half for purposes of throwing it, although I'm not clear exactly what that does in terms of helping with ranges.
Sadly, by RAW weapon weight does absolutely nothing.

QUOTE (BlackJaw @ May 31 2013, 10:21 AM) *
Lastly, we want a Skinlink for the weapon, using up the last Customization Slot. Now configure the Pocket Hacker software to automatically attempt to break into the network of any unknown network that the Tomahawk detects through it's skinlink. Now when you attack with the weapon, on top of the shock damage, you also get a free hacking attempt into their network if they are skin-linked. Even if you throw the weapon, it will have a signal rating of 2 for linking you into the skin-linked PAN of your target. If you buy multiple tomahawks, you don't need to buy the software again, thanks to the slaving setup. If you have a skilled hacker in your group, he can probably up the abilities of this hacking trick with various malware or a better pocket hacker setup instead.
So you're banking on the odds that not only will you hit the target, not only will the 'hawk physically lodge into them when thrown so you have a somewhat stable connection, not only that the enemy is using a skinlink, but also that your GM will allow this sort of absurdity? Good luck! nyahnyah.gif

QUOTE (BlackJaw @ May 31 2013, 10:21 AM) *
For this version we replace the integrated shock system for an integrated grenade. It's not the stealth or subtle answer, but it does give you a great way to blow crap up. It's also the very definition of disposable because one thrown it will explode. Sadly, it won't explode on impact under standard grenade rules, so instead we'll make it a sticky so if you hit the target it will stay there until it explodes. The Gecko Grenade mod (WAR p157) will handle this.
The Underbarrel Weapon mod, although strictly speaking useable on melee weapons (with the example given in Arsenal of "smart swords with a small pistol in the hilt to fire a bullet along the blade", is not intended to be used to attach grenades. This is essentially the equivalent of throwing adepts arguing for dealing extra damage by beaning enemies in the head with the grenade, then having it blow up afterwards.

~Umi
Stahlseele
Hmm, that's an idea . . Thrown bladed weapon, poisoned, skinlinked, built in comlink . .
It has a certain appeal to the Troll in me . . Not much to the Samurai in me though <.<
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Umidori @ Jun 1 2013, 02:22 PM) *
This is essentially the equivalent of throwing adepts arguing for dealing extra damage by beaning enemies in the head with the grenade, then having it blow up afterwards.

~Umi

A certain bat-themed comic book character who throws explosive (and electroshock, and EMP, and tracker) bladed weapons would like to have a word with you.
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