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RHat
Jun 28 2013, 04:14 AM
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jun 27 2013, 10:08 PM) *
Sure, but that design goal was met by making it skill+attribute. Intuition handled matrix perception which is damn useful, willpower has always just been a useful stat. How many ways do these stats need to be made useful.


And which ones are you specifically referring to? Don't want to go off on the wrong tangent here.
Shinobi Killfist
Jun 28 2013, 04:23 AM
QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 28 2013, 12:14 AM) *
And which ones are you specifically referring to? Don't want to go off on the wrong tangent here.


In this particular instance I'm mainly thinking willpower. Logic is hacker stat so I get that. Willpower was good enough on its own I don't think it needed the hacker stamp of approval.
RHat
Jun 28 2013, 04:25 AM
Eh. It was kind of a dumpstat for hackers in SR4, but that was very strongly connected to the lack of value cybercombat had.
Shinobi Killfist
Jun 28 2013, 04:29 AM
QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 28 2013, 12:25 AM) *
Eh. It was kind of a dumpstat for hackers in SR4, but that was very strongly connected to the lack of value cybercombat had.


It was a bit of a dumpstat for a pure hacker, but it was very useful overall and even more useful in 5e. I think they are doiubling down on attributes too much.
RHat
Jun 28 2013, 04:36 AM
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jun 27 2013, 10:29 PM) *
It was a bit of a dumpstat for a pure hacker, but it was very useful overall and even more useful in 5e. I think they are doiubling down on attributes too much.


It was important for mages, but outside of that was a very secondary stat - the stat that keeps you from getting knocked out is less important than the one that keeps you from getting killed.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jun 28 2013, 01:04 PM
QUOTE (DWC @ Jun 27 2013, 08:55 PM) *
One of your stats mattered to hackers, and that stat only mattered to cybercombat, which good hackers avoided like the plague. Beyond that, hacking was entire gear and skill driven. I could make a hacker wit 1s in all his Mental stats and he would be a vrituso hacker. A Mage with the same array would be worthless. A trigger puller with 1s inall his physical stats is a sad joke. But a hacker could be just shy of a vegetable and still hack his way through anything.


Which is why you use one of the Optional Rules, so that your Stats became more a requirement.
DireRadiant
Jun 28 2013, 02:23 PM
QUOTE (Wired_SR_AEGIS @ Jun 27 2013, 11:09 PM) *
What are the rules for doing that, DireRadiant?

-Wired_SR_AEGIS


If you are in a Host, the Host can be the Master, and all devices in the Host are slaved to it. Therefore for Defense the Hosts attributes are used. See PANs and Wans last paragraph on P. 233.

Now, of course, what the Host Attributes are, and how the Runners can get one to slave to, totally not clear. smile.gif

Though I assume a host would have the same attributes as all matrix devices.

I think Host and WAN are more of a tool for the GM mooks to have a high level of protection from Runners.
Wired_SR_AEGIS
Jun 28 2013, 03:40 PM
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Jun 28 2013, 02:23 PM) *
If you are in a Host, the Host can be the Master, and all devices in the Host are slaved to it. Therefore for Defense the Hosts attributes are used. See PANs and Wans last paragraph on P. 233.

Now, of course, what the Host Attributes are, and how the Runners can get one to slave to, totally not clear. smile.gif

Though I assume a host would have the same attributes as all matrix devices.

I think Host and WAN are more of a tool for the GM mooks to have a high level of protection from Runners.


Mmmmm. Interesting. Thank you. smile.gif

-Wired_SR_AEGIS
RHat
Jun 28 2013, 08:23 PM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 28 2013, 07:04 AM) *
Which is why you use one of the Optional Rules, so that your Stats became more a requirement.


Which had problems all their own, especially when it came to technomancer inter-stream balance.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jun 28 2013, 08:29 PM
QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 28 2013, 02:23 PM) *
Which had problems all their own, especially when it came to technomancer inter-stream balance.


Somewhat, to be sure. smile.gif
RHat
Jun 28 2013, 09:55 PM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 28 2013, 01:29 PM) *
Somewhat, to be sure. smile.gif


I'm curious as to how they plan to handle that issue in SR5, really.
Shinobi Killfist
Jun 29 2013, 01:48 AM
QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 27 2013, 11:36 PM) *
It was important for mages, but outside of that was a very secondary stat - the stat that keeps you from getting knocked out is less important than the one that keeps you from getting killed.


Now that I had time to think about t it I think I know what my issue is. Instead of my general sense of wrongness. It seems to break the normal skill+stat rule with something else as a limit. And willpower irritates me more in that I just don't get it. I'm willing my matrix signature to be sneaky? I need willpower to make sure I don't go crazy and start downloading porn by the megapulse. Skills just seem to fit better here, I have X skill so I know the tricks of the trade to keep my matrix signature below the radar. I'll have to digest what dire radiant just posted. I hate getting snippets, its hard to see the big picture. The stats might make total sense when we can see everything.
RHat
Jun 29 2013, 05:16 AM
I will grant you that, and I'll have to save final analysis until I can actually see the rules.
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